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But it doens' explain why the proportion of angry psots would outweight the number of happy posts unless a higher proportion of people are actually angry ;)

It's just a vocal minority thing. It always feels like there is more complainers, because they shout loudest. 99% of happy people won't go on the internet to tell people, they just get on with life.
 
Who asks you to buy new devices? Just get a new USB-C to mini-USB or whatever cable and merrily use your printer/scanner etc. for as long as you wish!

Or....how about I buy a cheaper and better spec'ed XPS and not have to buy any new cables or dongles. You do know that the 13: MBP has nerfed USB-C on the right hand side yes ?? So stupid - would have been better putting older ports on that side.

And not user upgradeable RAM/SSDs in the retina model

Oh yeah that was pretty fierce all right
 
It wouldn't harm you one bit to have a USB-A port -- there's no negative to you

Its not that simple. First of all, if you include one USB-A port, the people crying right now would still be crying — that there are not more ports. Second, by leaving USB-A ports you signal the manufacturers of peripherals that they don't need to update their products to USB-C. Third, the USB-A simply physically wouldn't fit into that design. I know people for some unclear reason are really allergic to all this thin and light stuff, but for me at least, having a lighter and more portable laptop* trumps the inconvenience of spending $20 for new USB cables.

*This is just basic practical reasoning. I need to move a lot with my laptop on me: lectures, meetings, support, conferences. I often put my 15" MBP in a messenger bag. Now, if I also need to take some printed materials, a wallet, a key, maybe a pair of gloves or an umbrella, a changer — that bag starts to get a bit unwieldy, stuff is bulging, the latch is difficult to close. It might sound dumb, but shaving those 0.25cm off the laptop actually would really improve things for me here.
 
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For a lot of people the future is not wireless. This is my main issue.
Fast network connections on a non-shared medium, reliably connected storage or simply a standard way to connect multiple monitors are common for people who work.
I love mobile computing a lot, I also love using WiFi and a trackpad.
In an office environment I need a few things, either for security or ease of use:
- Ethernet
- HDMI or DisplayPort for one or two monitors
- USB-a for my headset
- A mechanical keyboard

Some might argue that's just old school, but most of my work requres an organized and considtent working environment. One of the reasons why I still use a MacPro 2008

I understand all these "creative" and highly "mobile" people that are presenting the most "agile" and technology affine lifestyle, but this is not the way I get work done.

My MacBook was mainly used in my office with all the connectivity that i would have to change for adapters.
One power usb-c, one ethernet and HDMI hub that probly includes usb-a.

I am well aware that all of this is possible, but my previous mac products never required a single adapter for me to work.

There are plenty of solutions that might be ugly, but they provide the same functionality.
Which is what i need to work effectively. The OLED strip and TB3 bandwith does not concern me at all.
The smaller battery and the crappy keyboard does, if I'm not at my desk.
 
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Hankster, in many ways I agree with you and I share your pain...

I'm an old fart myself, I've been using Macs since 1992 and owned I don't know how many, including Powerbooks, and of course iPhones (starting with the original one).... Now I own (and earn my money with) an iMac Retina (2015) and a MacbookPro (late 2013), in addition I use an iPhone 6S+ and an iPad Air. Just for the record. And just for information: not once in my life I owned or worked with a Windows PC (I switched over from the Amiga back then)...

However I'm not sure if Apple lost their focus, they simply switched - to consumers. This is where the money is. The "pros" are no longer relevant to them. See the sad story of the Mac Pro. And now the latest MacbookPro. Also for me shrinking size and killing ports, limiting options and charging funny prices for upgrades (like SSD) does not equal "pro". I feel Apple is detached from reality here, I can see a bunch of engineers standing inside Apple's labs and getting seriously excited about their crazy stuff - but it doesn't translate into reality and real value for ME...

I'm still ok with my current situation and the Macs I own, but as I wrote in another thread, I think Microsoft is really redefining computing today, not Apple. I'm still not ready to switch, but at one point in the near future I simply might have no other choice. And if another company is selling better tools for my work, I will drop Apple (even though I will feel like leaving my long time girlfriend)...
 
This stuff was certainly happening when Steve was alive. Apple released it's first smartphone without 3G support. It took 2.5 years to support media messages and did natively support video recording until the 3GS. And let's not even mention the complete refusal to embrace popular (yet admittedly problematic) stuff like Flash (iOS) or Blu-Ray (Mac).

3GS was the first mass market iPhone as the previous were just toys. Flash and blu-ray - Steve was just right about them and history has proven him to be correct as usual.
 
Or....how about I buy a cheaper and better spec'ed XPS and not have to buy any new cables or dongles. You do know that the 13: MBP has nerfed USB-C on the right hand side yes ?? So stupid - would have been better putting older ports on that side.

Why is the XPS better specced (I assume you talk 13")? It uses low-power CPUs, slower RAM, slower SSD, no wide gamut display, only one thunderbolt port? Its cheaper all right

Oh yeah that was pretty fierce all right

Still is :p And now they take away the ports. That indeed must be the final straw for the traditionalist crew :D
 
I agree with this. It is frustrating that they seem to be neglecting the needs of actual pro users. The push to make devices thinner and thinner is troubling. we simply do not have the tech to make the thinner machines still powerful. even with the advances in tech we still dont really have the ability to make a laptop that thin that is still powerful enough for an actual pro user. it would have been better for them to name them the Macbook+ and then for the pro machine kept the form factor of the 2015 macbook pro to allow them to put a more powerful processor, more Ram, better GPU (GTX 1060 anyone?) and they could have done that without sacrificing the battery size. to be honest, i dont really care that they made it like 15mm thinner, i mean its cool and all but really? what i really dont like is that they made it thinner at the expense of power. they are prioritizing form over function when they have previously been pretty good at balancing the two. i mean the geekbench 4 scores of the 2016 15in 2.6ghz i7 are LOWER than the scores of the 2.5ghz i7 in the 2015/2014 15in. i know that benchmarks are not everything. but i would have expected that they would be more powerful, not less. on the note about the RAM, the ram in the XPS is not slower, it is 2133DDR4, and in the MBP it is 2133DDR3, pretty much identical.

I have been an apple user my whole life, and this is the first time when i am seriously considering switching to a windows machine (Razer Blade).

/Rant over/

EDIT: I am not going to buy a windows machine, i am too embedded in the macOS ecosystem.
I will be buying the
15in
2.6 i7
16Gb Ram
512 SSD
Radeon Pro 460
 
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Change is only really hard when you're forced to be stuck in between two things.

I'm sure everyone would love to have USB-C everything -- I don't see anyone contesting that. But very few things are even available in USB-C at the moment, so giving a USB-A port or an SD card reader so that people can transition would have made the world of difference.

Right now, almost nothing you have or can buy connects directly to the MBP. Keep in mind you don't always have control over what you'll need to connect to, especially with professional/commercial use.

I agree. I assume there is a size limitation keeping them from sticking in a USB-A port on the new one. Not so sure on the SD card reader (perhaps internal space there), but they may also have market research that says people don't widely use them. I know I'm a pretty limited test case, but we have MBP laptops in our house and neither me or my wife have ever used that SD card slot. The same kind of questions were asked back in 2012 when Apple 86'd ethernet ports, superdrive, firewire (not to mention user upgradeable RAM and storage). It was an awkward transition back then, but eventually we adapted.

I use my laptop for work and a RAM & storage space limitations have pushed me to an upgrade, so I definitely get what you're saying and I've got my share of dongles ordered. I would prefer not to have to do that, but this is generally the kind of thing you have to do when you're an early adopter on the front end of a change like this.
 
I'm 40. Decades ago I used to be a developer and graphic designer. But, I hated Apple products. I was 100% PC. Then, about a decade ago I bought my first MacBook (white one) and then the iPhone...that's when I realized Apple products were better. They were better built and (the most important) they were convenient and easy to use. I've sold so many people on switching to Apple it's not even funny.

Similar, although I seriously disliked Macs for my purposes (developer, sysadmin at the time with heavy Unix and Linux) until ~OSX Leopard, and there were still some annoyances (taking a perfectly good Unix and hiding/removing various *nix standard conf files and such), but overall, most things - just worked. Same philosophy they have on the phones and tablets, which I've also gone back and forth on (e.g. no filesystem access nor expansion card slots on iPad and iPhone), but while some things irked me, the value in 'just works' as well as 'works how someone would expect' made it great for a wide variety of users. As my career progressed, I've moved to basically 'all Apple' + VMs.

It seems to me, in order to obtain lighter, smaller, etc. sacrifices had to be made. Hence moving to USB-C and such.
In a way, aren't we, the consumers to blame for this? Didn't we 'ask for' smaller, lighter, faster?
Thinner + lighter is for marketing to the masses as an 'Ooh, ahh!' item, and is relevant to some in reality, e.g. road warriors (e.g. sales folks, others) and those looking for status in their laptops. It's a nicety for professionals, but many of us would gladly keep the same form factor as prior with added memory and battery.

I think "lost focus" is the wrong choice of words. Apple hasn't lost focus; they're simply focusing on things you don't want. They've stopped developing desktop machines to focus exclusively on laptops. They've stopped developing iPods to focus exclusively on iPhones. They've stopped developing iWork to focus on Apple Music.
Yep. Yet there is interplay between professionals not 'needing' lighter and thinner at the expense of performance (or ports or RAM or .. ), as well as up and coming future professionals. We have some front-end devs that have moved to MBPs (JS is JS after all), but run Visual Studio + others (e.g. SQL Server, .. )in VMs when needed. Everyone has been hoping to see 32GB of RAM in the new models - unless an upcoming release corrects that as an option, it'll be back to ThinkPads in the future.

You've also got teens and college folks typically into gaming. Gaming on Macs is pretty substandard, while the love of gaming drives a lot of people into CS degrees, even if most don't wind up actually going into game dev. Do you want them on Macs or on yet another Windows PC, as they jump into development? There are repercussions not readily apparent and there is value in having a TRUE 'top end' system.

Every new product and every major redesign from Apple has been met with mobs naysayers and angry posters. And those people are always invariably wrong.

I'm sorry the products don't meet your needs. Maybe it's time to check other vendors.

I use Apple devices professionally and so far they are the best I've used. The 15" MPB will be a huge step up when it arrives.
How arrogant. People have investment in software and in skills, often assuming that Apple would not forget one of it's core customer segments which kept them afloat in leaner times - professionals of many kinds. While it is wonderful the new system works for you, do not assume it works for all professionals using Apple products, nor that they have eno right to be disappointed or provide an opinion that Apple is going in a non-desirable direction.

One professional's workload that can be accomplished on a system does not mean it works for everyone, while MS is innovating and will eventually impact Apple's art and engineering pro users negatively without a response, and lack of RAM and higher performance will eat away users that need it over time.
 
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3GS was the first mass market iPhone as the previous were just toys. Flash and blu-ray - Steve was just right about them and history has proven him to be correct as usual.

Steve released an iPhone that lost its signal when you held it.
 
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Still is :p And now they take away the ports. That indeed must be the final straw for the traditionalist crew :D

Traditionalists aren't usually people who are using the currently latest gear available on the market, such as the iPhone 7. Having to juggle a bunch of adapters is hardly a step in the right direction.

It's like throwing away your DVD player for Blu-ray when only 5% of titles are available on Blu-ray, the other 95% is DVD and your entire collection is DVD. You might just own both DVD and Blu-ray simultaneously for a while.
 
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Why is the XPS better specced (I assume you talk 13")? It uses low-power CPUs, slower RAM, slower SSD, no wide gamut display, only one thunderbolt port? Its cheaper all right

Still is :p And now they take away the ports. That indeed must be the final straw for the traditionalist crew :D

Nope 15". 4K screen and most importantly 32GB RAM option.
 
I agree with this. It is frustrating that they seem to be neglecting the needs of actual pro users. The push to make devices thinner and thinner is troubling. we simply do not have the tech to make the thinner machines still powerful. even with the advances in tech we still dont really have the ability to make a laptop that thin that is still powerful enough for an actual pro user. it would have been better for them to name them the Macbook+ and then for the pro machine kept the form factor of the 2015 macbook pro to allow them to put a more powerful processor, more Ram, better GPU (GTX 1060 anyone?) and they could have done that without sacrificing the battery size. to be honest, i dont really care that they made it like 15mm thinner, i mean its cool and all but really? what i really dont like is that they made it thinner at the expense of power. they are prioritizing form over function when they have previously been pretty good at balancing the two. i mean the geekbench 4 scores of the 2016 15in 2.6ghz i7 are LOWER than the scores of the 2.5ghz i7 in the 2015/2014 15in. i know that benchmarks are not everything. but i would have expected that they would be more powerful, not less. on the note about the RAM, the ram in the XPS is not slower, it is 2133DDR4, and in the MBP it is 2133DDR3, pretty much identical.

I have been an apple user my whole life, and this is the first time when i am seriously considering switching to a windows machine (Razer Blade).

/Rant over/

The dawn of the anorexic Mac Book Pro.
 
But honestly, I am down with thinner computers (coming from a mid 2012 non retina MBP), but if making them thinner is at the expense of power, absolutely not! Especially for a "pro" machine
 
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I agree that it's the next standard. That's why I'm glad it has it.

However, it does not make sense to have only the new standard when 95% of what's on the market today does not comply with that standard.

Nobody threw out their floppy drives (or cassette players) the instant CD players became available, but before any of the software/music was available on CD. Why would you do that?

In the same way, all the gear that people use, especially in the professional environment, are not yet available in USB-C/TB3. So even if people wanted to throw out everything they have and go fully USB-C, they can't. It will have to be adapters up the ying yang for a while to come.

It wouldn't harm you one bit to have a USB-A port -- there's no negative to you. You're just being headstrong that the future is the future and that's all you want so that's all anybody should have because that's best for you.

You can't even buy an iPhone that connects to the MBP now, let alone any camera equipment, audio recording interfaces, even mice and keyboards, etc. Our company uses Apricorn encrypted hard drives that aren't available in USB-C -- so what do we do?

A standard is only useful when it's adopted and available. At the moment, it absolutely is not and it's going to be a while before it is.
Apple still sells the older models for those who need the older models. The older MacBook Pros can get the job done nicely. There is no need to include dead weight on a new products when older products will still work just fine. Now if they discontinued the sale of older products this soon you might have a point.
 
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I agree. I assume there is a size limitation keeping them from sticking in a USB-A port on the new one. Not so sure on the SD card reader (perhaps internal space there), but they may also have market research that says people don't widely use them. I know I'm a pretty limited test case, but we have MBP laptops in our house and neither me or my wife have ever used that SD card slot. The same kind of questions were asked back in 2012 when Apple 86'd ethernet ports, superdrive, firewire (not to mention user upgradeable RAM and storage). It was an awkward transition back then, but eventually we adapted.

I use my laptop for work and a RAM & storage space limitations have pushed me to an upgrade, so I definitely get what you're saying and I've got my share of dongles ordered. I would prefer not to have to do that, but this is generally the kind of thing you have to do when you're an early adopter on the front end of a change like this.

Firewire, Superdrive, and Ethernet ports were all dropped long, long after they were no longer necessary.

Almost everything that was available in Firewire was also available in USB ages before Firewire was dropped. Firewire was also pretty exclusive and most people didn't use it or even know it existed. Things like mice and keyboards weren't available in Firewire... just some specialty devices and hard drives.

Imagine dropping the Ethernet port when only about 5% of the places you needed Internet have Wifi? No, almost every home, public area, and office had Wifi ages before the Ethernet cable was removed.

I'm 100% on board with USB-C and TB3. Absolutely love it. But I need a professional computer, at several thousands of dollars, that can connect with the things I need to use, and almost none of that is even available in USB-C even if I wanted to throw out everything I have and go replace it with new stuff today.

I'm also inclined to think that your usage (and indeed many who own MBP) would be better suited with something like a 14" Retina MacBook based on the 12". A lot of people bought the MBP for the Retina display and such rather than for ports and power.
 
Its awesome when some people think they are the only ones that know why you need (and how you should use) your computer.
I'm a developer and the new MacBook Pros suit me just fine. I have yet to run into a need for a USB port except to charge my phone and iPad. I do have a need for more power and a larger display.
[doublepost=1477761166][/doublepost]
But it doens' explain why the proportion of angry psots would outweight the number of happy posts unless a higher proportion of people are actually angry ;)
The studies show that angry people are more vocal. They'll either adapt to the times or get old.
 
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I completely agree with this thread topic. I sincerely hope the new MacBook pro will tank and apples future sales will go down the drain. Because this machine is so overpriced it's beyond ridicule of what apple has ever released before, and at the same time such low specs it's embarrassing. Max 16gb of ram ddr3, no touch and a useless gimmick bar and to get something even decent you have to pay around 3000 usd++?!? And most base models have no dGPU. It's not a Pro machine!! It's an average consumer machine in a nice aluminum shell. And all other machines apple are selling are completely outdated. I'm so done with apple now - from being a heavy apple fan and spent so much money on this company I'm now all done! Their machines aren't even lust worthy any more, even the new MacBook Pro for me isn't something I want to own. My new pc which I spent about the same amount on as the maxed out New MacBook Pro is about 10x more powerful on every aspect, ram, gpu, CPU etc etc. apple has become arrogant and not even innovative anymore. Good riddance!
 
I'm also inclined to think that your usage (and indeed many who own MBP) would be better suited with something like a 14" Retina MacBook based on the 12". A lot of people bought the MBP for the Retina display and such rather than for ports and power.

I need the 16GB of RAM to run the VMs that I have. I also connect to 2 external 27" (2560x1440) monitors and only 1 can be connected to the MacBook.

I have been using a Thunderbolt Dock to have a single connect point to all of my peripherals at the office (and at my setup at home). I'm going to have the Thunderbolt 2 > 3 adapter that connects there. So outside of the dongle the new laptop won't really negatively effect my setup much.
 
Jobs used to have the famous 3-clicks or less to your music. My new iPhone I have to Google to find out how it functions, and certainly more than 3 clicks. Coming from Windows I can't figure out why OSX doesn't remember the window size last used, Googled for answers, got 1/2 dozens so called fixes which work half of the time. I feel it's certain, Jobs is gone.
 
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Jobs used to have the famous 3-clicks or less to your music. My new iPhone I have to Google to find out how it functions, and certainly more than 3 clicks. Coming from Windows I can't figure out why OSX doesn't remember the window size last used, Googled for answers, got 1/2 dozens so called fixes which work half of the time. I feel it's certain, Jobs is gone.

You may find an app called BetterSnapTool to help a lot if you're coming from Windows to OS X.

It basically gives you the snapping abilities from Windows. Of particular use is snapping to the top to maximize the window without going into full screen mode (similar to the maximize button in Windows).

I find it very helpful. MacOS window management is sub par.
 
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