Good morning Paol,
How do you restrict the bit rate? And what's VBV? How do you add to the presets? What's dynaflash?
Thanks
Carl
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Apple HD Movies on the ATV
- Thread starter carlcosby
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Good morning Paol,
How do you restrict the bit rate? And what's VBV? How do you add to the presets? What's dynaflash?
Thanks
Carl
Dynaflash is a HB developer, he does the mac gui (and maybe more). He got an ATV and is very experimentful and helpful. He has posted tips for encoding settings, tweaks and explanations both here and the HB forums. He has also posted his own tweaked settings for ATV. Search for his posts, they are usually worth reading.
vbv is a way to restrict the bitrate. Add vbv-maxsize and vbv-bufsize to the advanced string. Good values can be found in this thread: http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13506 among others.
With the latest versions of HB bitrates have been so low that vbv usually isn't necessary, I add as a precaution any way.
Magnus,
Wow, that is a great overview! Covers everthing from the original purpose of the AppleTV and how it was meant to be used to debunking many of the resolution myths! Well done.
I'm sure this link is going to be passed around quite a bit in response to those who whine that they want the AppleTV to be a different device.
Thanks for the insight into the deeper issues here.
Wow, that is a great overview! Covers everthing from the original purpose of the AppleTV and how it was meant to be used to debunking many of the resolution myths! Well done.
I'm sure this link is going to be passed around quite a bit in response to those who whine that they want the AppleTV to be a different device.
Thanks for the insight into the deeper issues here.
Hi Paol,
I have downloaded and extracted a 39Gb blu-Ray, its an .iso image file. I opened makeMKV and loaded the .iso as the source, but it said i had AnyDVD running or activated. I dont have AnyDVD?
Also, when i inspected all the folders and files, I came across the mt2s files, there were quite a few. These cant be opened in HB, is this why i need to use makeMKV?
Thanx
Carl.
Edit: I carried on with the conversion in makeMKV when it stated that i had anyDVD running, it completed. I have 7 .mkv files though? Why is it not one? None of which will open in HB, im confused now??
I have now, however, copied the mt2s files to a new folder in the desktop, when they have completed transferring over, i will open them in HB and see how it goes from there. Any advise would be great!
I hadn't read about the Broadcom device. It sounds interesting from what I've read, but it presents a couple of issues. One is that you'd then have to get a different Wi-Fi card (USB, I suppose) and your ATV would then be completely dependent upon hacks to function into the future as the USB port wouldn't function without them (unless you use Ethernet of course).
The other issue is that you're stuck with XBMC for playback. This presents two basic problems. One is that you can no longer use a unified interface for keeping track of all your media (unless you only use XBMC).
The other issue is that XBMC has very poor M4V/Tagging/Feature support, which leads back to my primary reason for not wanting to use it for more media. Basically, it has no chapter support for M4V files (I don't know why since clearly the information is available as Handbrake does make good use of it for encoding) and frankly having to fast forward through a movie or video is so archaic and annoying for those times when you really want to easily navigate. Oddly, it does support it for MKV, which once again suggests anti-ATV or perhaps rather anti-M4v/Apple sentiment or lack of caring.
Worse yet, is how XBMC completely ignores tagging for movies and the like. It seems completely counterproductive to me to try and "guess" information based on a file name (nearly 100% wrong for foreign and b-movie films and often shows "incorrect" results rather than admitting it has no clue) when that information is neatly stored inside the file tags itself. I didn't spend all that time tagging my movies with MetaX for XBMC to just butcher the database with incorrect "guessing" and taking forever to look it all up the first time as well. I realize it's a free product, but I'm simply stating why I don't use for much other than as a means for parental type controls for more adult themed movies and the like (I have no idea why iTunes/ATV lacks these basic controls with a simple tag + password lock system). I've also seen some M4V movies simply fail to play for reasons unknown. I could have sworn it used to have network password controls on it (sometimes OSX locks out files that somehow have gotten the wrong permissions set on them which is a PITA to fix with huge sets of folders of photos, etc.). I can go through with the picture viewer and it will simply refuse to display certain pictures in a given directory. XBMC also will not pass-through DTS music files to toslink connector, at least not without jumping through some hoops (The Apple TV interface passes through my Apple Losslessly compressed files without even trying or having to relabel (calling a file .dts will result in loss of playback in iTunes) or somehow index them with extra files that are a PITA to set up for every track). Basically, I appreciate the idea of XBMC, but I don't really much care for the interface or features of it, save the weather data and visualizer (seeing as ATV *still* lacks one for reasons completely beyond me; if my G4 PowerMac can handle them without any trouble, it surely ought to be able to). Note that these are not meant to be complaints to the XBMC developers since it's a free/open program, but rather simply represent the reasons I rarely use it.
I'm glad to hear some HB developers do like Apple TV, but I did say "seem" above as that's simply how it comes across when things like "M4V" extensions disappear or default settings don't handle 720P files very well for some files. In fact, DVDs used to look terrible too with the preset until I discovered the comb filter (otherwise it's just horrible with some media). Comb never seemed to hurt any of my 300+ DVDs, so I could never understand it being disabled by default when the default looked so darn awful with so many titles. I did create many of my own settings for various situations and they mostly work well, but sometimes a movie like Star Trek VI just seem impossible to get perfectly smooth without negatively affecting the video quality and since it takes many hours to convert even once to find out and then test, etc., I'm not fond of fiddling with controls for long periods of time as one movie can easily lead into days of testing. Apple TV's limitations are well known so it just seemed like it should have been easier to find a setting that didn't cause hiccups. I still have no idea how to get rid of the panning/glitch issues with "video" type DVD sources. Comb filtering doesn't work for that particular type of motion distortion, etc. and several presets and manual setting attempts later not leading to smooth results, I basically gave up and simply let things like the Red Dwarf spaceship move a little choppy (it doesn't do this in all scenes, though, just large panning ones and this never happens with movie sources so I assume it has something to do with video; turning off comb filtering results in interlacing tearing).
I do know one thing and that's after spending the past year converting all this media, I'm completely sick of the process (and so even IF I could find an improved setting, I would not really want to go back and redo the entire library, maybe a few titles at most). Converting and tagging over 300 DVDs isn't a lot of fun and converting VHS tapes, etc. is even less so (and even Final Cut Pro + Quicktime or Compressor is slow as molasses for converting to M4V compared to Handbrake. It's another reason I'm glad the new 3rd generation iPhone and iPod Touch can scale video in real time (i.e. all my movies optimized for highest resolution and Apple TV will play just fine now on 3rd generation unit whereas they won't play at all on my 1st generation iPod Touch). Having to convert something to view it on another medium sucks. This is why I would have preferred 1080p from the get-go on AppleTV at least for conversions since I don't really want to do it all over again at some point in the future and I don't want to go back watching a movie off a disc format...EVER.
If you haven't already, I suggest you download this version of HB: http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13969&sid=8c1529c6b9054524d05ec2996032847d
Then use the AppleTV preset under "Apple", change the resolution to 1280 from 960 an turn on decomb if you like.
Then in the advanced string, add the following: vbv-maxrate=10000:vbv-bufsize=2500
Save it as a new preset and try on the next movie or an old one you know is difficult. vbv keeps the max bitrates down and should prevent stuttering. If it doesn't help, reduce vbv-maxrate further to for instance 8000. Make sure cabac is turned off.
For DVD-sources, you can just leave the resolution and you can set vbv even lower, for instance vbv-maxrate=5000:vbv-bufsize=3500. If you do want to use cabac you should restrict bitrate further.
Some panning scenes are a little bit choppy on my TV, and I think that is that the panning speed don't go well with my TV. Some pans are perfectly smooth and some isn't and I can usually see that they are panning at different speeds.
I agree with the above poster, for awhile I too was encoding many of my DVDs for the AppleTV but finally decided to not bother with it. Now I just rent or buy from iTunes and my wife and I are content with that. After spending a few hours ripping and then encoding I didn't even care to watch whatever movie it was. So, I use the AppleTV and also my 360 to stream Netflix.
The only thing lacking now is Apple's agreements with the studios. It would be nice to get HD releases on release day or even rentals on release day. However, the SD quality movies are pretty damn good on my 42".
The only thing lacking now is Apple's agreements with the studios. It would be nice to get HD releases on release day or even rentals on release day. However, the SD quality movies are pretty damn good on my 42".
Using current hb and therefore latest x264 I have yet to see a dvd source that requires any sort of a vbv buffer, even if using cabac and an rf value of 19.25 which is higher quality/bitrate than the built in presets rf of 20.
For HD sources you could use vbv but those settings would produce a very short buffer imo.
For HD sources you could use vbv but those settings would produce a very short buffer imo.
As it has been since 0.9.1, you can set a preference to always use. m4v instead of mp4. Also if you use chapter markers or AC3 Passthru .m4v will automatically get appended as apple devices require this extension to use these features.
I had SVN 3036 installed for reference. I'm now installing 0.9.4. As for why it hasn't been updated, I haven't encoded any movies/videos since then.
er, as for why what hasn't been updated ? Also to say that the hb developers could care less about the atv is simply ridiculous frankly. Afaik HB is probably if anything considered to be one of the most apple-device-centric transcoders available and if I am not mistaken one of the only ones besides apple itself that directly addresses apples rather strange mp4 characteristics. .... though I could be mistaken.
I still cannot get smooth pans (they're jumpy) on certain DVDs, usually video sources like Red Dwarf (during the opening ship pans) or in this case Super Fuzz (during any panning scene). Super Fuzz appears to be converted to 29.97 fps on the DVD (i.e. like video). I've tried every combination of detelecine, deinterlace and decomb. I've tried varying the output frame rate and weighted b-frames. It's jumpy on all major pans. When I convert video through Final Cut Pro from VHS tapes and Laserdiscs and from my digital camera recording NTSC, everything pans smoothly so I'm not sure what the problem is.
I use these settings for 24 fps HD content:
ref=3:mixed-refs=1:bframes=3:me=hex:subq=7:b-adapt=2:weightb=0:trellis=0:weightp=0:vbv-maxrate=10000:vbv-bufsize=10000
These for 25 fps HD content:
ref=3:mixed-refs=1:bframes=3:me=hex:subq=7:b-adapt=2:weightb=0:trellis=0:weightp=0:vbv-maxrate=9700:vbv-bufsize=9700
and these for SD content:
ref=3:mixed-refs=1:bframes=3:me=hex:subq=7:b-adapt=2:weightb=0:trellis=0:weightp=0
Still get jumping on the first two, but dont get jumping for the SD settings on SD content.
Is there anymore tweking that I can do Dynaflash please?
Thank you.
ref=3:mixed-refs=1:bframes=3:me=hex:subq=7:b-adapt=2:weightb=0:trellis=0:weightp=0:vbv-maxrate=10000:vbv-bufsize=10000
These for 25 fps HD content:
ref=3:mixed-refs=1:bframes=3:me=hex:subq=7:b-adapt=2:weightb=0:trellis=0:weightp=0:vbv-maxrate=9700:vbv-bufsize=9700
and these for SD content:
ref=3:mixed-refs=1:bframes=3:me=hex:subq=7:b-adapt=2:weightb=0:trellis=0:weightp=0
Still get jumping on the first two, but dont get jumping for the SD settings on SD content.
Is there anymore tweking that I can do Dynaflash please?
Thank you.
I tried your setting and Super Fuzz from DVD (SD) still jumps on pans.
I just tried the DVD in my older JVC progressive DVD player that has manual progressive setting selection options and it behaves like Handbrake in "film" mode and "video1" mode, but "video2" mode is SMOOTH (just about perfect looking). So it definitely IS possible to get smooth playback of this DVD in progressive mode. But Handbrake doesn't appear to be up to the task at all. It's not alone, though. DVDFab5 failed to do any better. Sadly, this means some of my NTSC DVDs simply won't look right in iTunes/Apple TV for panning scenes.
BTW, if I use NO extra settings (i.e. no decomb or de-interlace), the scenes pan much smoother, but they also have an "interlaced" appearance for many movements (i.e. layers of ----- that are noticeable) so it's no good either, IMO.
I suppose I could bring my DVD player upstairs to my ADVC-110/TBC editing station connected to my MBP and use the Video2 setting for capture and then have Final Cut Pro compress it into M4V, but it's a bit of extra work, especially for doing a LOT of video DVDs like the entire Red Dwarf TV series (FCP is SLOW to compress too, taking like 4-6x longer than Handbrake).
Try adding cabac=0 to the advanced string (or uncheck the cabac checkbox) and see if that will give you smoother pans. Cabac is very processor intensive for the ATV and it gets in trouble at relatively low bitrates.
I've found that if I convert an HD video higher than 24fps, and I have to convert it down to 24fps, the video becomes choppy.
The problem exists on my PC and Mac computers as well, though so it's not the CPU performance.
I think I may have some idea what is going on. Examining the individual frames, it is obvious a movie like Super Fuzz has been telecined to 29.97fps. The movie was made on film and the DVD is clearly video as my DVD player proves as only its "Video2" progressive mode results in smooth motion for the movie. Other shows like Red Dwarf are video also, but the opening shots may have been done with film and thus telecined (which explains why the show is pretty much free of the issue except for external shots of the ship being panned). The latest Red Dwarf made-for-DVD movie shows the problem all over the place when converted with Handbrake. The fact my DVD player can play it perfectly smooth in Video2 or Smart mode (auto-selects the mode based on the movie), it DOES demonstrate that this problem SHOULD be able to be addressed by something like Handbrake with the proper filtering.
Thus, the solution SHOULD be (reading all the docs on Handbrake) to use variable-rate de-telecine. This results in an improvement in motion (definitely not perfect like the Video2 mode is on my DVD player), but the video then has obvious combing/interlaced artifacts, but turning on either de-interlace or decomb results in the same choppy motion as before any detelecine mode was selected. So either detelecine isn't working right in the latest official Handbrake or something isn't being anticipated (e.g. Video1 mode on my DVD player does NOT fix the problem, only Video2; unfortunately I'm not sure what each mode does specifically on the player, but again I suspect the movie needs detelecined properly and decombed and Handbrake simply isn't doing it properly for some unknown reason). I'm tempted to try and older version of Handbrake and see if there's any difference in the results. But the fact I encoded Red Dwarf with an older version and it suffers from the problem in those panning scenes suggests it won't.
What I have found after encoding lots of movies now, is that the computer generated movies are absolutely flawless, i.e Toy Story, Incredibles, Ice Age etc.... They are perfect, no glitches what so ever. Normal movies however, jump ever so slightly, the pic quality is very good but its this jumpiness thats a bit annoying.
I hope somebody comes up with something to sort these issues, there are many here that spend a lot of hours testing and I cant thank you enough!
Regards
Carl
I hope somebody comes up with something to sort these issues, there are many here that spend a lot of hours testing and I cant thank you enough!
Regards
Carl
HD sources can stutter due to bitrate spikes since HB uses the same RF value for all sources ( there is no logic to change RF based on the source scan in the presets yet).
For what its worth this is how I encode all of my atv material which is really the only encoding I do for myself except for testing for HB.
http://dynaflashtech.net/
And yes it does not use vbv settings like the HB preset since I raise the rf value for anything > sd dvd to 22 - 23 vs. 19.25 for dvd sources.
Btw, new snapshot of hb available as of yesterday in the hb forums.