Apple Hit With $1.2B Lawsuit Over Abandoned CSAM Detection System

[Mr_Ed]

This is the lesson that applies to everything that everyone conveniently forgets when their party is in power. It doesn't matter which party is in power. The one thing both sides can agree on is government power. They may differ slightly in their approach to getting it, but they will absolutely take advantage of what the last administration did, and it never ratchets down, only up.

Yeah, I really don’t get the hyper-partisan concern for privacy. The tendency to try to control speech will be there regardless of where any of us think any administration falls in the political spectrum because at the end of the day, bureaucrats’ jobs are easier if they don’t have to answer for their decisions and they will try to control the narrative if they think they can get away with it.

Whether it’s through identification/persecution of “dissenting” voices (where schemes like the CSAM implementation might be applicable), silencing/identification of “dissenters” through interaction with media platforms, or altering general perception through the injection of propaganda into the general discourse (as an example of the last two, DHS DGB anyone?) the one thing we can count on is government bureaucrats of all stripes trying to find reasons to justify their methods “for the greater good.”

 

[surfzen21]

Apple had good intentions with CSAM, but it was abandonned and for good reasons. iThink Apple was drunk having had the idea to introduce this thing.

I dont know if, "iThink" was a typo or intentional but it is absolutely hilarious and probably an Apple product in the pipeline. 😂

 

[BGPL]

Good, Apple really screwed this one up. They were more concerned with uneducated people's backlash about "muh security" than helping victims bring possessors/traders/distributors to justice. All of the other big tech companies have had these detection systems for years, the difference is they didn't run it by the hentai neckbeard basement committee before they began using it. This further solidifies that Apple is all about the bottom line rather than actually helping people. Dear Tim, they'll get over it. Thanks

 

[groove-agent]

That’s insane. That’s like suing gun companies for all the murders that happened with guns. I guess that’s why you shouldn’t announce features before they’re done.

 

[H2SO4]

Maybe we should sue display manufactures for having the ability to display illicit content. We could also sue town, counties, states, and national governments for allowing people who engage in illegal activities to live within their boarders. I mean surely the government should be “scanning” your home to make sure you aren’t engaged in any activity that harms others right?

If we are OK holding innocent people accountable for the actions of the perpetrators, it kind of seems like we could sue anyone and everyone…

I'm afraid that's exactly what some people want.
EDIT: A lot of people probably agree with that sentiment but don't actiually realise it.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

As soon as I start thinking about this topic, there's a fundamental problem in the way it's implemented.

No one makes a CSAM app for parents to run on their families devices & home computers to ensure no one (esp the kids trading pics/vids within their age range) has downloaded any of these types of pics/videos, or small businesses to run on their network shares & backups, where you commonly have any number of people saving whatever they want, wherever they want with no IT mgt at all. I recovered an old harddrive at an architecture firm I worked at and there was a mountain of porn scattered throughout, now in a huge randomized pile, including a load of obviously illegal stuff scanned from 1970s magazines (when there were apparently 0 rules?). ...which posed the question: Do you leave a HD that has illegal content on it sitting on your desk for 2 years (!) as you throw your spare non-billable time at hunting through every image and video on it, deleting the xxx content as you go, or do you wipe the entire thing and lose the only backup that has all the legal defenses of your Co's work for the last 30 years? Do you think we wouldn't like the ability to find and eliminate that stuff off our systems with the click of a button? Of course we would.

Instead, it's designed for big companies to sneak it in as a backdoor to websites or one part of one app on one type of some peoples devices, where it doesn't alert them to the problem, it simply reports them to the FBI, which helps no one but cops pat each other on the back for arresting a handful of rando's every year. If the interest was in eliminating the content from networks, they'd make CSAM scanning software and the hash directory available and make it widespread. This group should be suing the org's keeping that from happening.

But I wonder if I can sue apple for a few billion dollars for not creating an app that makes me feel better about my life.

 

[xraydoc]

I would be very surprised if this suit gains any serious traction in the courts.

 

[2761216]

Petty scums and sleazy lawyers band together again to waste judicial resources. These jerks need to be taught a lesson.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

NOT A GOOD IDEA WITH THE CURRENT INCOMING ADMINISTRATION.
Northern California is of the same *Party* that is returning to power next month in America 😳 they always vote that direction and that’s not a good idea at all. Apple will endanger everyone who is LGBTQ+ and P0C including migrants.

What are you talking about. The Bay Area of which people reference as Northern Cali is Blue. The only MAGA are a few executives.

 

[laptech]

right to privacy is just an excuse when it comes to arguing against CSAM.

As soon as you connect to the internet, your service provider starts collecting masses amount of data. They know your location, they know what website you visited, they know what files you have downloaded, they log all your outgoing and incoming emails, EVERYTHING you do on the internet is captured and logged by your service provider and yet I never see people suing service providers on issues of privacy.

Mobile phone companies do the same, they log your location, all the websites you visit, all the app's you use, they log every instant message you send and receive, they log every incoming and outgoing email, they log your phone calls, who you called, the duration of the call and again no one sues the mobile phone companies for issues on privacy

BUT as soon as Apple tries to implement CSAM which would mean the scanning of pictures uploaded to icloud suddenly there is an out pouring of anger on privacy issues. Many peoples views are misguided in my opinion. They will let internet service providers and mobile phone providers hoover up every bit of personal information about a person they can and not a court case in site on privacy issues but as soon as a system is mooted about scanning people's photo's suddenly it's a case oh 'oh no, my privacy is being invaded, that cannot be allowed to happen'.

 

[drrich2]

While billions of us have nothing to hide

By today's standards, but what about next year's?

The rapid cultural and legislative evolution in 1st world nations coupled with the ease of putting things in 'the Cloud' and marked difficulty reliably expunging them is fertile ground to be persecuted according to standards that don't exist yet.

Many years ago when Microsoft was facing anti-trust efforts by the federal government, IIRC some incriminating e-mails came out and I wondered...what idiot kept those e-mails all that time? Then I got to wondering if they had to. I have no idea who TitanHQ.com is, but per this page of theirs:

Email Retention Legislation in the U.S.​

"Email retention legislation in the U.S. requires companies to maintain copies of emails for many years. There are federal laws that apply to all companies, data retention laws for specific industries, and a swathe of email retention laws in the United States at the individual state level. Ensuring compliance with all the proper email retention laws in the United States is vital. Noncompliance can prove incredibly expensive and multi-million-dollar fines await any company found to have breached federal, industry, or state regulations.

Certain types of data must be retained by U.S companies in case the information is required by the courts, and that includes email. eDiscovery requests often require massive volumes of data to be provided for use in lawsuits and the failure to provide the data can land a company in serious trouble. Not only are heavy fines issued if data cannot be produced in eDiscovery, companies can face criminal proceedings if certain data has been erased."

While child porn is already illegal and clearly (to most sane people) evil, I wonder what else will be deemed sanctionable and search worthy someday?

Will Apple be required to keep backup copies of graphics and other iCloud content in case some court wants it for a case in the future?

I'm usually not paranoid about the 'deep state,' illuminati, our secret overlords, conspiracy theories, etc..., but we may be laying the foundation for more 'Big Brother.' Remember Eric Snowden.

 

[alchemistmuffin]

Filed in Northern California on Saturday, the lawsuit represents a potential group of 2,680 victims and alleges that Apple's failure to implement previously announced child safety tools has allowed harmful content to continue circulating, causing ongoing harm to victims.

I have a feeling digital privacy groups might sue the victims in retaliation because this would have servers negative consequential outcome for digital privacy. Apple abandoned plans because privacy groups cried foul and that group will cry foul again this time against then victims to protect the privacy of millions.

 

[cjsuk]

As soon as I start thinking about this topic, there's a fundamental problem in the way it's implemented.

No one makes a CSAM app for parents to run on their families devices & home computers to ensure no one (esp the kids trading pics/vids within their age range) has downloaded any of these types of pics/videos, or small businesses to run on their network shares & backups, where you commonly have any number of people saving whatever they want, wherever they want with no IT mgt at all. I recovered an old harddrive at an architecture firm I worked at and there was a mountain of porn scattered throughout, now in a huge randomized pile, including a load of obviously illegal stuff scanned from 1970s magazines (when there were apparently 0 rules?). ...which posed the question: Do you leave a HD that has illegal content on it sitting on your desk for 2 years (!) as you throw your spare non-billable time at hunting through every image and video on it, deleting the xxx content as you go, or do you wipe the entire thing and lose the only backup that has all the legal defenses of your Co's work for the last 30 years? Do you think we wouldn't like the ability to find and eliminate that stuff off our systems with the click of a button? Of course we would.

Instead, it's designed for big companies to sneak it in as a backdoor to websites or one part of one app on one type of some peoples devices, where it doesn't actually help anyone. If the interest was in eliminating the content, they'd make CSAM scanning software and the hash directory available and make it widespread, and this group should be suing the org's keeping that from happening.

But I wonder if I can sue apple for a few billion dollars for not creating an app that makes me feel better about my life.

I think it's simpler and less conspiratorial than that but I think the conclusion is spot on.

It is all based on lobbying by various NGOs and charities under their mandate to "do something about it". They ran out of other viable avenues, like promoting rehabilitation and social resolution, because they are really hard so went after tech companies. Apple was pressured by external lobbying and politicised internal staff buy in to that with no nuance considered. This escalated into a technical mid-ground being proposed which was an effort to pacify them.

Now Apple aren't even remotely stupid. I suspect they knew there was going to be public resistance to it. But the options on the table were to get called "pedo protectors" by the NGO and charity lobby with no rebuttal available, or announce it and wait for the large amount of security professionals to shut it down. The latter happened.

So the previously mentioned NGOs are annoyed that they were played and are probably bankrolling this now to play victim for the next round.

The answer, as I stated earlier in the thread, is that this is a complex social issue and not something you can "just solve" by wiping out media with hashes. It'll literally have zero impact on the situation. Someone wants money. That is it.

 

[TruthWatcher412]

Then why not sue the carriers for their networks giving people access to the internet to share and see this data? We could go deeper too and sue the modem manufacturer for creating a device that grants the iPhone the ability to connect to then network to see the data on, you can sue anyone if you pay a lawyer enough...

 

[roar08]

You Americans and your legal systems. You do make Europeans giggle from time to time.

Hopefully common sense will out.

For sure! Can't wait til we're arresting people for their social media posts! Europe is so cosmopolitan! Also, should this post be flagged as racist? I think I'm triggered...

 

[roar08]

This is just ambulance chasing. Hopefully Apple stands their ground and it gets tossed.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Hopefully common sense will out.

Well hold on just a second now. I don't think you want to see what sense counts as "common" winning out in this country. Europe exiling its worst lunatics, thugs and criminals here to rely on their medieval notions of common sense is how we got in this mess in the first place, and their kids have been fighting to maintain that ever since. I think we could raise the bar to sentience & rational thought.

 

[ForkHandles]

For sure! Can't wait til we're arresting people for their social media posts! Europe is so cosmopolitan! Also, should this post be flagged as racist? I think I'm triggered...

The UK recently started imprisoning people for their social media posts. Would you believe it though? Inciting racial hatred is illegal in the UK. As is inciting riots, murder and other crimes.

I think there post could be thought as racist if there weren’t for that fact that no other European country willingly legislates for putting sub machine guns in the hands of its citizens, hence your legal system is a little bizarre to us folk.

 

[ForkHandles]

Well hold on, I don't think you want to see what sense counts as "common" winning out in this or any country.

They do say Common Sense, ironically is not that common!

 

[mansplains]

I wonder whether this group has attempted any similar action regarding Epstein, Diddy etc.

 

[Morod]

The Bay Area of which people reference as Northern Cali is Blue.

Yes, you are right there. But some folks consider the Bay Area as Central. Up towards Shasta is red, red, red!

 

[I7guy]

Can’t sue the internet, so apple is the next big thing.

 

[DblHelix]

You can sue to force companies to develop software you think they should develop now? Wtf

 

[jjwwqq]

Just because you can do something doesn’t mean that you should do something.

 

[DblHelix]

Yes, you are right there. But some folks consider the Bay Area as Central. Up towards Shasta is red, red, red!

Only people who consider it central are the people from the far north of the state who get no attention. To me south is anything below Bakersfield north anything above it and central is the entire Central Valley nothing on the coast of far east of the state.