Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Hit With €500M Fine as EU Enforces Digital Markets Act
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
More BS from the EU. If people don't like the way Apple does things they can always go with the Android alternative. Don't they (Android) have the greater market share anyway.
Also there is no mandatory three year warranty in the EU. There’s a two year mandatory warranty for retailers for manufacturing defects, and after one year, the customer has to proof that a defect is actually the result of manufacturing.
I do not want a society that people and companies are free to break the laws if they think the law is stupid. If the law is stupid, do the proper lobbying to change the law. For citizens: work via the democratic system and other opinion routs.
A bank robber cannot be walk free after a bank robbery just because the bank robber think the law making it illegal to rob banks is "stupid".
It is the European parliament, which is elected, that vote for a law, the EC is just the executive branch obliged to implements the laws. I believe the EC appointment is a complicated give and take politics involving the member state elected politicians as well as the EU parliament.
If apple don’t like the way the EU do things I guess apple can leave a massive market. It’s the EUs train set not apples.
People who are coming up with “StoreKit External Purchase Link Entitlement (US)” and 3000 words of rules about “Distributing dating apps in the Netherlands” have no problem in interpreting the law.
Particularly for what they’ve now been fined for:
👉 Apple knows exactly what these restrictions are.
Claiming “Oh, we don’t know how to comply with the law and avoid this fine” would be brazenly disingenuous from anyone having come up with restrictions as carefully crafted as Apple’s (see above).
As for the other interoperability requirements the DMA makes - arguably less clearly defined in the law - the European Union provides further specific guidance and gives Apple ample opportunity to comply (and clarify if necessary).
Last edited:
Where did you get that idea from. EU GDPR law applies to EU companies first but also all other companies from barzil, China or India that operate certain digital services in EU with EU data. DMA equally applies to all. Just because 70% of US population don't inform themselves about international going ons doesn't mean they don't happen. US through WHO and political pressure has in the last century since WW2 largely dictated most international law. If there is an imbalance its in favor of the US as is visibile by the ubiquity of the US dollar which many BRICS nations hate.
As far as strong and fair competition goes I urge you to research some US history and you only have to go back 1 year really. US was investigateing some of the big 5 for anti competitive behavior. I'd argue the EU is far from perfect in this respect but what you should keep in mind with any such regulation is that regulation is enshrined rights of citizens. They may be annoying and complex. The DMA is trying to make markets more competitive. Why should they put such regulations on their own companies but let internationals do as they please (they do still live in a lawless realm to some degree, e.g. corportae taxes and intellectual property rights).
Burocracy and regulations have been added and increasing as the RIGHTS of citizens have increased to avoid arbitrariness of those in power be they government or large corporations/conglomerates/cartels/...
Utlimately if you and Trump want to get rid of everything annoying around such regulations "things" you ultimately get rid of rights that citizens have fought for in the decades leading up to now. Never forget regulations are enshrined rights that you are free to give up but they are negotated by a community (country, city, state) and not meant to be at the pleasure of any one indiviual.
Anti competitive behavoir rules such as DMA are ultimately a question of rights of Service Providers (to participate in the market) vs capriciousness of those that can dictate. Imperfect as the EU might be they are at least elected officials and some strongly try to represent their constituents (Surely not all but there are some very devoted people in both EU and US government, just humans but we all are).
Trumps reciprocal trafis even if they would make sense, have been so arbitrary and applied without any plan or strategy that all they really achieve is alienate everyone, to make it the US against the world, rather than China against most of the world. He has done China a great service. Someone objectively evil to blame for all their economic woes and problems (easy propaganda which allows them do withstand any internal economic turmoil), a clear opening to appear as the measured reliably partner - as the new future superpower they want to be. From EU/+ perspective the US just shot themselves in the foot, screwed over some poor counrties (for no good reason) and handed china the victory. Which largley looks like a loose/loose situation for most involved at least in the near term.
Is that the same way developers can just not make an iOS app if they don’t like the way Apple does things?
I would prefer they didn’t but that’s how business works. They will pay the price for their decision.
However the EU is making that a reality anyway.
I don’t like the EUs policies on stuff like this but it’s all well within their gift.
I’m in the apple walled garden and I like that. That doesn’t change the fact the EU can do what they wish.
How were you scammed? Are you an old frail infirm person with limited exposure to tech? Do you click yes on every prompt without reading what the prompt is? Do you use simple passwords without any MFA or security keys? There’s pretty much no excuse to be scammed these days.
This is the law in Europe.
If Apple is unhappy with our legislation, they are free to leave Europe and their second biggest market.
To probably repeat points already made ..but important points.
The DMA is the LAW OF THE LAND in Europe.
It may or may not be stupid, and you may or may not like the way Europe democracy works….and it’s totally irrelevant.
If Apple operates in Europe, it has to follow the law. Otherwise it will get charged and found guilty.
If Apple is not happy with this, nothing prevents them from leaving the EU markets.
There is literally nothing else to say.
The DMA is the LAW OF THE LAND in Europe.
It may or may not be stupid, and you may or may not like the way Europe democracy works….and it’s totally irrelevant.
If Apple operates in Europe, it has to follow the law. Otherwise it will get charged and found guilty.
If Apple is not happy with this, nothing prevents them from leaving the EU markets.
There is literally nothing else to say.
Again, the only point I was making with my statement is following this mess of a law is more complicated than its defenders make it out to be.
Even in the article we’re commenting on, the EU states they can’t tell Meta whether the change Meta made almost six months ago for less targeted advertising complies or not - but Meta must comply within 60 days or risk further fines! How are they supposed to do that if the EU can’t tell them?!? Nothing in the law says Meta’s initial attempt at compliance is prohibited. In fact, the driving force behind the regulation previously stated she wanted Meta to offer their initial attempt at compliance. But now that’s apparently not good enough.
The EU still can’t tell Apple whether the CTF complies or not, and it’s been over a year since it was introduced! But I’m sure they will be happy to fine Apple for the entire period of “noncompliance” when they get around telling Apple it isn’t allowed despite not one letter of the law saying the something like the CTF is prohibited. And all the DMA defenders on here will yell at Apple for not following the law, and talk about how it’s as clear as day the CTF isn’t allowed under the DMA, ignoring it took over a year for the EU to decide the same.
Of course the EU has the right to pass it even if it is abundantly clear it won’t achieve the goals they claim and will actually make things worse. They even have the right to pass laws explicitly targeting American companies, if you agree with my opinion that is the real goal of the DMA. And of course Apple and Meta should follow the laws of the countries they operate in, even if they’re explicitly written to hurt them and help their competitors. But, in cases like this where they think the regulator isn’t interpreting the law correctly, they should absolutely appeal the fine in the courts.
But again, “just follow the law” is a lot more complicated than its defenders make it out to be. I assure you Apple and Meta believe they are currently following the law.
Last edited:
But you did imply that someone would suggest leaving the market. So your 745M was just you adding up everybody tangentially connected to "Europe" but also not in the EU?
Apple should comply with the ruls they impose on others. That is: no private libraries, not being overly restrictive towards developers. Trying to develop system software for macOS is nearly impossible. Try mimicing soemthing like the Finder with IPC, low level filesystem access etc. If you can even manage to do that, no way you can sell your application via the appstore. Let alone develop something that implements a better alternative for something Apple implements on your system, for example: a better Finder, system settings, low level tools etc.
For that reason alone, Apple should play its own rules, or open up for developers od system software.
For that reason alone, Apple should play its own rules, or open up for developers od system software.
If the EU doesn’t want Apple to be charging developers of third party app stores via the core technology fee, they could just say this part out loud, tell Apple once and for all just what it is they want Apple to do, and settle it once and for all.
If the EU is staying mum in the hopes that Apple will over commit and end up making more concessions than they would otherwise need to, then I appreciate Apple continuing to make only the smallest of concessions each time and continuing to push back against the DMA until we get more clarity from the EU about just what it is they really want.
The people of the USA made the choice on electing a moron, a big crying orange baby, as their president. The master of debt, the no-brain self proclaimed master-negotiator that only looses other people's money, saved ehh bought by Russian oligargs to become their puppet marionet, is sinking the ship. With all who trusted him with it. He is betraying his voters and they are blinded by his ****** propmises. Unbelievable. Well, blame everybody, but yourselves.
The Titanic is sinking, better enter the lifeboats and hope the rest of the world is willing to save you.
Europe is not ideal, but at least uses common sense and is protecting human values (to some extend).
--- ooops, o my, should I now be scared to be burned on a pile of wood when Vance or some other moron comes to Europe to "tech us a moral lesson" and burn the whiches?
PS: this is not written by me, it's the others telling me, I read it on my phone, just like Vance.
The world is turning it's head from the USA. Within a few years, we can do without you. And we will be better of. China is making their own phones. Europe might as well do so too. The USA is a now a sinking ship. Apple and NVidia better move to Europe or wherever, and adopt an alternative business model, based on quality and human values.
I hear this a lot too. So many people don't understand how the progressive tax system works and just as you say they worry about making more money because they think they will lose more than they gain...
Four more years of this and California will be ready for life after the US.
Apple is free to get rid of the CTF and comply with the regulations. The EU is not required to hold Apple’s hand in finding loopholes or exploiting their legally allowed wiggle room for maximum anticompetitiveness.
Apple knew full well that this fee may be found to violate the DMA.
They have literally found issue with the CTF in exactly the way I expected them to.
Commission closes investigation into Apple\'s user choice obligations and issues preliminary findings on rules for alternative apps under the Digital Markets Act
Following a constructive dialogue with Apple, the Commission has decided to close its investigation into Apple\'s user choice obligations under the Digital Markets Act (DMA).
The fact that developers have to pay the CTF if they want the option of alternative distribution but not if they stay on the exclusive to the App Store terms is exactly the kind of incentive structure I expected them to find issue with.
Edit:
To be clear, I am not 100% certain that any form of CTF will survive simply because Apple competes with apps on iOS. If Apple didn't have Apple Music, TV+, News+, Arcade, etc... they would likely have no problem with a CTF but given that they do there is a chance that they will never be able to have a CTF given that it provides them (Apple) with a competitive advantage...
As others have said, Apple wants to both monetize the platform and also build monetized apps on the platform that compete with third parties.
They can’t.
The CTF was/is already Apple’s their first response, their first attempt at circumventing / undermining the legislation.
Assuming the CTF is deemed non-compliant, Apple will just come up with some other crafty scheme, new discriminatory junk fees or terms and conditions. Just look at their link entitlement bull****: They’ll never run out of ideas and will never give in to comply in good faith (and have developers and consumers choose) before they get to feel the pain. Before they get disciplined through fines - and those fines held up in court.
And that’s also why we need regulation and enforcement that requires compliance with the “spirit of the law”.
Last edited:
They “want it all” … their hubris makes them think that is somehow “fair”, also.
There was a time where the hubris had kind of a cutesy to it, back when they were a bit more of the upstart, but now they just look like they have their head up their rear end.