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tongxinshe

macrumors 65816
Feb 24, 2008
1,035
604
Good post – this is precisely how Microsoft grew as well, work with a smaller company, take the technology and then drag them through the courts until they give up.

No, it’s very different.

Most of the small companies that Microsoft crushed, their original clients / customers were not Microsoft itself, while suddenly Microsoft coveted their profits and jumped right into competition, took them down using its monopoly power of its OS.

Apple doesn’t have any monopoly power in any market, neither did Apple grab the clients / customers off any small companies’ hands, it just stopped itself being the customer of the company, it didn’t uproar a riot with all other clents / customers of that same comany, either.
 
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kruegdude

macrumors 6502
Aug 10, 2011
290
210
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm just excited to see what Apple has in store with their in-house GPUs. The PowerVR GPUs were great and served iOS devices well for many years. If Apple has something significantly better up their sleeve I can't wait to get the devices that use it.
That what I was thinking too. Great minds and all that :)
 

Crzyrio

macrumors 68000
Jul 6, 2010
1,537
1,005
Apple is the kind of company that only uses you long enough to learn how your technology works and then once they devise a way to get around your patents, shut you out and replicate the functionality of your solution. Alternatively they just buy you. Like they did with Siri, TouchID and so on.

EDIT:// I can see I rattled a lot of cages with this comment. Many of you replying are saying things like "welcome to capitalism" and "that's what every company does". And to that I say, well duh, that's what I just explained with my comment, it's the entire reason imagination is salty.

Almost every bit company is like this unfortunately. Although it isnt always about just saving money. It gives them more control to move in the direction they want as opposed to waiting/working on it.

Another huge culprit of these doings is Tesla.
 

macTW

Suspended
Oct 17, 2016
1,395
1,975
Apple is the kind of company that only uses you long enough to learn how your technology works and then once they devise a way to get around your patents, shut you out and replicate the functionality of your solution. Alternatively they just buy you. Like they did with Siri, TouchID and so on.

EDIT:// I can see I rattled a lot of cages with this comment. Many of you replying are saying things like "welcome to capitalism" and "that's what every company does". And to that I say, well duh, that's what I just explained with my comment, it's the entire reason imagination is salty.
Your comment was reacted to poorly because you chose to villanize Apple for something every operating company tries to do and something you have no proof does happen.
 
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bkkcanuck8

macrumors 6502
Sep 2, 2015
410
291
Your comment was reacted to poorly because you chose to villanize Apple for something every operating company tries to do and something you have no proof does happen.
Not to mention buying companies is the very essence of capitalism. In fact I worked for a company that was bought by IBM - and we were very glad that we were.... because the company was over extended and if IBM was not interested.... the company and 300 jobs would have been lost (it worked out for our shareholders better than IBM).

If you don't make something special - and anyone can do it.... you will be replaced or displaced by another company or it will be brought in-house.... Apple went to them last year - probably looking to see if they had anything in the pipeline that was worth acquiring the company .... but there was nothing of worth.... since they chose not to make an offer.
 

Quu

macrumors 68040
Apr 2, 2007
3,338
6,443
Your comment was reacted to poorly because you chose to villanize Apple for something every operating company tries to do and something you have no proof does happen.

I did not villainize anyone. If you saw it that way then you villainized them in your mind, not me. I was factual, this whole thing with imagination technologies is about Apple making their own GPU after having access to imagination technologies patents for literally years. They have done exactly what I described.
 

raghu8912

macrumors 6502
Dec 5, 2016
307
146
San Jose
Does seem like poor business etiquette to throw a long time supplier under the bus with the announcement. A buyout of a company is usually based on the share price so it seems rather obvious the announcement is part of a planned strategy to make it a cheap buyout but if Apple is not showing interest then who are they colluding with? Perhaps it's another instance of selling out the West to Chinese central government judging by what's going on at Cypress Semiconductor.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2017/02/23/cypress-semiconductor-rodgers-canyon-bridge.html

Tim Crook has already demonstrated his allegiance using untaxed money hidden offshore to fund an Uber rival. This character and his cronies need to serve time at Gitmo.

http://fortune.com/2016/08/04/apple-invest-didi-chuxing-china-uber-merger/
If Apple makes an offer to buy Imagination Technologies, people are going to drag Apple to court and Apple will loose the case for sure, Apple is not buying Imagination Technologies.
What's wrong in investing in companies abroad ?
If we go by your logic then China shouldn't allow Apple to sell iPhones in China because Apple is an American Company.
We live in a global economy now.
And every company is hiding money overseas, Apple is hiding more just because it makes more money thats the only difference, they are not breaking any law by stashing money overseas.
It is unto congress to fix the loopholes in the tax system.

This character and his cronies need to serve time at Gitmo.
Did they break any laws to server in Jail ?
He is the CEO it is in shareholders best interest to maximize profits, he is doing his job.
 

GFLPraxis

macrumors 604
Mar 17, 2004
7,135
437
Apple is the kind of company that only uses you long enough to learn how your technology works and then once they devise a way to get around your patents, shut you out and replicate the functionality of your solution. Alternatively they just buy you. Like they did with Siri, TouchID and so on.

EDIT:// I can see I rattled a lot of cages with this comment. Many of you replying are saying things like "welcome to capitalism" and "that's what every company does". And to that I say, well duh, that's what I just explained with my comment, it's the entire reason imagination is salty.

It's a little more than that, too- they offer you tremendous amounts of business (and lots of money) but the condition is that they have to always come first. If there's a supply shortage, you short everyone but Apple.

Apple eventually overcentralizes the supplier's business. Their other customers don't get as good of an experience as Apple, and aren't profitable.

And when Apple eventually makes their own supply chain and dumps the supplier, suddenly the supplier is left with few other customers because Apple dominated their sales.


Technically, I don't think there's a wrongdoing from Apple there. But from the supplier's perspective, it's a sudden shock where they suddenly lose 80% of their business.
 
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bkkcanuck8

macrumors 6502
Sep 2, 2015
410
291
If Apple makes an offer to buy Imagination Technologies, people are going to drag Apple to court and Apple will loose the case for sure, Apple is not buying Imagination Technologies.
What's wrong in investing in companies abroad ?
If we go by your logic then China shouldn't allow Apple to sell iPhones in China because Apple is an American Company.
We live in a global economy now.
And every company is hiding money overseas, Apple is hiding more just because it makes more money thats the only difference, they are not breaking any law by stashing money overseas.
It is unto congress to fix the loopholes in the tax system.

This character and his cronies need to serve time at Gitmo.
Did they break any laws to server in Jail ?
He is the CEO it is in shareholders best interest to maximize profits, he is doing his job.

My gut instinct is that Intel might be interested in acquiring the devalued Imagination Technologies - which is why the company is taking the proactive start to divesting of everything outside of that core area. It is probably a fairly cheap way of shoring up some of the IP now that the contract with nVidia lapsed.

If Apple were interested in acquiring Imagination - they would at least made an offer last year. Apple already has prior acquisitions for there technical needs, and I have no doubt that Apple has been working on their own GPU stuff since they started work on the Ax series of processors. The only reason for Apple to acquire Imagination Technology would be for patent protection.... so any acquisition would likely mean most of the employees would be let go.... they are already on the tail end of development by the time they gave formal notice.
 

einsteinbqat

macrumors 6502
Nov 3, 2012
430
347
Canada
TL;DR

They knew since 2015. Being a publicly traded company, were they not obligated to tell shareholders about Apple's intentions back then (in 2015)? Why the drama now? 2015 to 2019, that is four years. Is that not enough time to turn themselves around?
 
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ani4ani

Cancelled
May 4, 2012
1,703
1,537
Speaking from a position of complete ignorance and lack of understanding here, why did this company make this dramatic announcement that ended up shocking investors and hurting their share value? That decision seems counter to their interests.

Is there a larger strategic advantage to such an announcement that I'm overlooking? Was it required by law?

Because it is the law. Information that can impact performance, viability, solvency etc, must be made public if you are a listed on the stock market.
 
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MrX8503

macrumors 68020
Sep 19, 2010
2,289
1,609
Apple is the kind of company that only uses you long enough to learn how your technology works and then once they devise a way to get around your patents, shut you out and replicate the functionality of your solution. Alternatively they just buy you. Like they did with Siri, TouchID and so on.

EDIT:// I can see I rattled a lot of cages with this comment. Many of you replying are saying things like "welcome to capitalism" and "that's what every company does". And to that I say, well duh, that's what I just explained with my comment, it's the entire reason imagination is salty.

Why would ANY company continue to pay for something that's no longer relevant? Companies go in and out of business as market DEMANDS. Nothing can stop it.
 

GrumpyMom

macrumors G4
Sep 11, 2014
11,165
17,337
Because it is the law. Information that can impact performance, viability, solvency etc, must be made public if you are a listed on the stock market.
Thank you. Another forum member also told me that. Lol, believe it or not I got my degree in business administration...but that was close to 30 years ago, and I have forgotten so much. I've since turned my focus to other things completely unrelated to business.
 

MrX8503

macrumors 68020
Sep 19, 2010
2,289
1,609
Does seem like poor business etiquette to throw a long time supplier under the bus with the announcement.

It's business, not a charity.

A buyout of a company is usually based on the share price so it seems rather obvious the announcement is part of a planned strategy to make it a cheap buyout

I believe that's illegal.
 

bkkcanuck8

macrumors 6502
Sep 2, 2015
410
291
It's business, not a charity.



I believe that's illegal.
There is a problem with the theory as well. If Apple gave notice of cancelling the contract when they had no intention of taking the manufacturing in-house it would be considered stock manipulation.... But if Apple dropped them and had every intention to walk away and the company turns around and seeks tenders for a takeover -- Apple like all other companies can.... after all if Apple submits a bid and you have other bidders - the share price as well as the value of the company will likely rebound to where it was before anyways.
[doublepost=1499464810][/doublepost]But in the end, Apple would have only given official notice on a 30c part if they already had the replacement part at least at the point of beta testing with same or better performance. Not going to risk the iPhone product release cycle with billions on billions on revenue over what amounts to pocket change.
 

MacBram

macrumors regular
Jan 28, 2002
132
28
Zeeland, Nederland
2) Nevertheless, the rug was pulled out from under Imagination's feet. The notice itself resulted in financial collapse.

Your point 3, casting aspersions on Apple, is moot, because you haven't understood the difference between the "notice" and the "announcement" dealt with in this article.

The "notice" was given to Imagination by Apple more than two years ago!

In fact, Apple had not been licensing "new" technology from Imagination since that time!

"The "financial collapse" was a result of the recent announcement by Imagination itself -- in March of this year! This announcement "pulled the rug" out from under Imagination's investors, who thought everything was hunky dory for the last two years!
[doublepost=1499467871][/doublepost]
This article is just what is being told by both parties, nothing more. None of us know who is actually telling the truth.

Where there is a difference in what is being said, I would put money on Apple telling the truth. Despite the picture painted in the media, Apple is actually one of the most transparent tech companies there is -- not about their product roadmap, but about their business. Apple actually gives a lot of hard numbers, for example; whereas others like Amazon, Samsung, MS, and Google don't break them out as much, or purposefully obscure them between different divisions and Profit-Loss statements.
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
To me, it's not that Apple stopped using their services.

(Although it's a pity that a company which helped the iPhone be competitive would end up like this. You'd think that companies would learn by now that getting in bed with Apple is often a faithless marriage.)

It's that Apple stopped while also hiring away at least 25 of Imagination's top people to help Apple make their own GPU... so Apple won't have to pay royalties any more to their former employer.
 
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MacBram

macrumors regular
Jan 28, 2002
132
28
Zeeland, Nederland
It's a little more than that, too- they offer you tremendous amounts of business (and lots of money) but the condition is that they have to always come first. If there's a supply shortage, you short everyone but Apple.

LOL. Uh, yeah, if you don't have enough product to supply all your customers, you start with the ones that already paid up front or bought some of your assembly lines for you, rather than starting with the ones who, um, didn't.

Is that not how companies should operate?

What other reason would you have for paying up front, other than to secure the intended purchase? Righhht, it's a charitable donation to ensure that some other customer who hasn't yet paid is guaranteed to receive the units that they want??
 
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bkkcanuck8

macrumors 6502
Sep 2, 2015
410
291
I don't think it really matters who knew longer...... Its not gonna help them get their shares back.

If you read it carefully, what Apple said was most likely correct. What Imagination Tech basically said is that we were not told "for certain" until this year... they would not have added that qualifier if they had not been told in some manner beforehand. Parsing notifications like that can lead you to fall afoul of the law, but we will see.... it won't be enough to stop civil action -- with shareholders suing the company for misleading them or not properly notifying them. So on a technicality - they could both be telling the truth -- just dancing very close to a line that should never be approached. At a minimum it is unethical.
 

KeanosMagicHat

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2012
1,546
544
No, it’s very different.

Most of the small companies that Microsoft crushed, their original clients / customers were not Microsoft itself, while suddenly Microsoft coveted their profits and jumped right into competition, took them down using its monopoly power of its OS.

Apple doesn’t have any monopoly power in any market, neither did Apple grab the clients / customers off any small companies’ hands, it just stopped itself being the customer of the company, it didn’t uproar a riot with all other clents / customers of that same comany, either.

I realise the current situations for both companies are different and therefore the reasons for taking such actions are somewhat different too, but Microsoft did exactly what I said they did many times over.

Windows and associated products were cobbled together like a jigsaw from many different sources outside Microsoft.


-----

On another note, some defending Apple seem unwilling to admit a basic fact.

Apple are an incredibly successful company and almost every business that is a market leader have achieved that position by being ruthless - Apple are no different in this regard.
 
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bkkcanuck8

macrumors 6502
Sep 2, 2015
410
291
I realise the current situations for both companies are different and therefore the reasons for taking such actions are somewhat different too, but Microsoft did exactly what I said they did many times over.

Windows and associated products were cobbled together like a jigsaw from many different sources outside Microsoft.


-----

On another note, some defending Apple seem unwilling to admit a basic fact.

Apple are an incredibly successful company and almost every business that is a market leader have achieved that position by being ruthless - Apple are no different in this regard.

I would not say very different, but somewhat different.

Microsoft was caught specifically targeting competitors applications creating private APIs that would give Microsoft's in-house applications advantage over 3rd party applications for the desktop OS -- along other rather offensive technics to make sure 3rd party applications would be at a disadvantage. Given their near monopoly position with regards to the desktop at the time they were found to be acting illegally. Microsoft like any major company is going to make regular and continuous acquisitions of technology companies for both the employees and the technology that they need for their own products. It was not that Microsoft was acquiring companies, it was that they were found to be using their monopoly status, to crush the competition by extortive methods. Either you agree to be taken over for this price, or we will eliminate the market for your application by using their dominance and giving it away until you die.

The majority of Apple's acquisitions are pure takeovers for the technology or people that may one day be used to enhance their products. Also in no market is Apple nearing a position where they are in a monopoly position.
 
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