Apple iMac 2010 - What would you like to see changed?

[peakchua]

Well, sometimes like in ATI 4xxx series it goes like the mobile version is based on the same chip as the desktop counterpart i.e. mobility 4850 is based on the desktop 4850. In 5xxx series, that doesn't unfortunately apply as mobility 58xx is based on desktop 57xx called "Juniper". The best 5xxx chip called "Cypress" is not used in any mobility cards as of now. That applies to almost whole series, 5650 and 57xx are both based on the desktop 56xx chip called "Redwood".

That's why most people are so confused. They think 5850 would be huge upgrade as it is in desktop models but in mobility cards, the difference is fairly small

if they can put a 5850 in there.. desktop edition.. i would sell my imac and get an 27 inch imac. btw if apple was to upsize the imac.. how big would the screen be due to the 16:9 ratio pixel count etc.

 

[peakchua]

as for cypress 😀 will the 6xxx have cypress based mobility gpus? 😱

 

[TMRaven]

I think apple could very well put a desktop 5750 in their next iMacs, given they'd probably found a way to shrink their logic board, and found a new way to place their components for maximum efficiency.

http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/TLfSqZEZWnTwKylR.huge

There's also currently a good amount of space behind the heat pipes that lead to the gpu heatsink on the current 27 inch iMac. (the space between the disk drive and hard drive)

 

[DoFoT9]

as for cypress 😀 will the 6xxx have cypress based mobility gpus? 😱

i think it would be a mix, just like the current ones (e.g. some 5xxx mobility use 4xxx desktop, and some 5xxx mobility use 5xxx desktop technology).

 

[Hellhammer]

makes total sense - pretty smart move from ATi to LOSE fans 😉

so when are 5xxx mobility chips set to come out? or even 6xxx?

5xxx has been out for like 6 months 😀 6xxx is expected to be released sometime this year

if they can put a 5850 in there.. desktop edition.. i would sell my imac and get an 27 inch imac. btw if apple was to upsize the imac.. how big would the screen be due to the 16:9 ratio pixel count etc.

Next 16:9 that exists is 3840x2160 but iMacs resolution was custom, it didn't exist before, now it does. Plus, I doubt we'll see bigger iMac any time soon

as for cypress 😀 will the 6xxx have cypress based mobility gpus? 😱

Eidorian linked me the roadmaps some time ago but I can't fine them. If the memory bus width is 256-bit, then it likely is. we'll see.

i think it would be a mix, just like the current ones (e.g. some 5xxx mobility use 4xxx desktop, and some 5xxx mobility use 5xxx desktop technology).

Mobility 5xxx doesn't use any desktop 4xxx silly 🙂 4xxx is 55nm while 5xxx is 40nm plus it supports DirectX 11 etcetc. 😉

 

[DoFoT9]

5xxx has been out for like 6 months 😀 6xxx is expected to be released sometime this year

hmm ok damn maybe not then lol.

Mobility 5xxx doesn't use any desktop 4xxx silly 🙂 4xxx is 55nm while 5xxx is 40nm plus it supports DirectX 11 etcetc. 😉

hmm. I'm not learning well enough then. So the 5xxx mobility uses desktop 5xxx gpus?

 

[Hellhammer]

hmm. I'm not learning well enough then. So the 5xxx mobility uses desktop 5xxx gpus?

They are all based on same chips. There is no mobile only GPUs as far as I can tell. Mobility 5850 is based on desktop 57xx "Juniper". Mobility 5xxx isn't just renamed 4xxx 😉 It's more but because the high-end chip (desktop 58xx "Cypress") is not used in any mobility GPU due some reason, the high-end uses the second best chip (desktop 57xx "Juniper").

This is the usual way, it's not common that mobility chips are based on their desktop counterparts, usually one model down like in 5xxx series. It's extremely confusing and unless you do your homework, you won't know these 😛

 

[ermir4444]

apple likes to keep up to date with products and this has primarily made it a competitor in the industry. the reason why 5750 is a good choice over the 5650 is because it uses gddr5 memory which is faster, more advanced than GDDR3, DDR3 DDR2, DDR and so on. 5750 would have a significant increase of about 20-30% over the current 4670 due to gddr5, a better architecture, and higher clocks, + 80 additional stream processors. it is not on par with the 330m. the 330m sucks. 330m is somewhere in the middle of class 2 mobility gpus according to notebook check.

I don't think Apple ever used GDDR5 in their cards at any point in the past. 4850 used in the iMac right now has a variant with GDDR5 but Apple chose to use the one with GDDR3. Its the same with the amount of VRAM as well. While other companies are moving to 1.5 and 2 GB VRAM Apple is still stuck at 512 Mb tops. That was great like 5 years ago. So dont expect Apple to offer a card with 1 GB DDR5 anytime soon. Hence the 57xx series wout GDDR5 is really not better than the 5650. The main reason Apple would choose the 5650 is the extremely low TDP considering the performance. And you are right 330M really sucks...I mean it is rebranded almost 4 year old technology...

 

[Hellhammer]

I don't think Apple ever used GDDR5 in their cards at any point in the past. 4850 used in the iMac right now has a variant with GDDR5 but Apple chose to use the one with GDDR3. Its the same with the amount of VRAM as well. While other companies are moving to 1.5 and 2 GB VRAM Apple is still stuck at 512 Mb tops. That was great like 5 years ago. So dont expect Apple to offer a card with 1 GB DDR5 anytime soon. Hence the 57xx series wout GDDR5 is really not better than the 5650. The main reason Apple would choose the 5650 is the extremely low TDP considering the performance. And you are right 330M really sucks...I mean it is rebranded almost 4 year old technology...

Just because Apple hasn't used it in the past, doesn't mean that they never will. Apple didn't use quad core CPUs in iMac before, now they do. GDDR5 is the future, I'm sure Apple will use it in high-end, otherwise they shouldn't even update it.

VRAM is nothing more but a marketing trick. Mobility 5650 cannot take advantage of all 1GB, heck it can barely utilize half of it, especially with resolution like 1600x900. iMac has such great resolution thus it needs more VRAM, it's currently a bottleneck. If Apple wants to get rid of the bottleneck, they must use more VRAM.

57xx is better than 5650, no matter what GDDR it uses. They are all based on "Redwood" chip but obviously, 57xx has higher clocks. The TDP is irrelevant in iMac as it has no battery. All 57xx have lower TDP than 4670 thus, heck, 5850 has 39W, that's 4W more than 4670. Plus, 4670 was the fastest non-48xx chip so we don't know how much the 21.5" can handle, 5850 should fit there fine. There is no need for Apple to put over two times cooler GPU in iMac, it handles the heat fine.

330M ain't 4 years old. It's just renamed GT 240M with little higher clocks and 240M is based on GT216 core which is used in desktop GT 220. The 240M came about a year ago so it's not old chip, not at all when knowing NVidia's standards

 

[DoFoT9]

They are all based on same chips.

then why rename the whole line to 5xxx? they should still be 4xxx naming schemes. lazy ATi lazy.

There is no mobile only GPUs as far as I can tell. Mobility 5850 is based on desktop 57xx "Juniper". Mobility 5xxx isn't just renamed 4xxx 😉 It's more but because the high-end chip (desktop 58xx "Cypress") is not used in any mobility GPU due some reason, the high-end uses the second best chip (desktop 57xx "Juniper").

This is the usual way, it's not common that mobility chips are based on their desktop counterparts, usually one model down like in 5xxx series. It's extremely confusing and unless you do your homework, you won't know these 😛

so you are saying that the 4850 desktop GPU will have the similar if not identical performance as the 4870 mobile GPU? (as you say they are similar chips/technologies). if they were matched clock for clock/etc, would they be identical?

I don't think Apple ever used GDDR5 in their cards at any point in the past. 4850 used in the iMac right now has a variant with GDDR5 but Apple chose to use the one with GDDR3. Its the same with the amount of VRAM as well. While other companies are moving to 1.5 and 2 GB VRAM Apple is still stuck at 512 Mb tops. That was great like 5 years ago. So dont expect Apple to offer a card with 1 GB DDR5 anytime soon. Hence the 57xx series wout GDDR5 is really not better than the 5650.

just look at the performance increases from doubling the RAM of the GPU - from 256MB->512MB you are looking at something like a 5%-10% increase, i think its better off investing the money into something else.

i think its also wise to bring up the speed benefits from such GDDR technology, in real world how much faster will GDDR5 be over GDDR4/3??

 

[Hellhammer]

then why rename the whole line to 5xxx? they should still be 4xxx naming schemes. lazy ATi lazy.

I meant mobility chips are based on desktop chips, not that 5xxx is based on 4xxx silly 😛

so you are saying that the 4850 desktop GPU will have the similar if not identical performance as the 4870 mobile GPU? (as you say they are similar chips/technologies). if they were matched clock for clock/etc, would they be identical?

Mobility 4850 and 4870 are just underclocked desktop 4850/4870. The only difference is the clock speeds so if you underclocked desktop 4850 to the level of mobility 4850, the performance should be identical. Difference between 4850 and 4870 is the GDDR and the clocks, in both mobility and desktop versions.

i think its also wise to bring up the speed benefits from such GDDR technology, in real world how much faster will GDDR5 be over GDDR4/3??

I've read GDDR5 is 2-3 times faster at same clock speed. It's almost more efficient thus consumes less power. It's up to the GPU too, it must be fast enough to take advantage of GDDR5

 

[DoFoT9]

I meant mobility chips are based on desktop chips, not that 5xxx is based on 4xxx silly 😛

haha oh. you are confusing.

I've read GDDR5 is 2-3 times faster at same clock speed. It's almost more efficient thus consumes less power. It's up to the GPU too, it must be fast enough to take advantage of GDDR5

interesting to know. i wonder how that equates in real world tests 🙂 have never checked

 

[TMRaven]

GDDR5 is a big step up from GDDR2/3 and 4. Think of GDDR2/3 and 4 being on one tier, then GDDR5 being on a whole tier above them.

 

[peakchua]

(roadmap of ati 2010-2011) 128 bit busses still here 🙁 whats the possibility of a 356 bit bus 🙁

http://forum.notebookreview.com/gam...0727-ati-mobility-hd-6000-series-roadmap.html

 

[peakchua]

I've read GDDR5 is 2-3 times faster at same clock speed. It's almost more efficient thus consumes less power. It's up to the GPU too, it must be fast enough to take advantage of GDDR5[/QUOTE]

which means mobility 5850 blows with gddr3 or ddr3 😀 its weird though how from the 5830 to the 5850 400 stream processors are added! come on.. amd needs 600-800 stream procesors in their mobility gpus and the high end.. needs 1200 stream processors. + more rop s +maybe terascale 3? 😕😕 and gddr5 version STANDARD

 

[pmboos]

Stuff I would love to see in the next iMac...

Dual Boot: current MacOS line and iOS; or even better, the ability to have an iOS emulator running on the MacOS
Touchscreen for use with iOS
iOS being able to access files on the MacOS side
Backlit keyboard
1TB drive as an option
Compact Flash, SDD slots
Blue-ray would be nice, but I'm not to the point of using my computer for much vid, so remaning with DVD is fine for me

My G4 system had a motherboard go bad; I still want to move all my data and apps onto the new system, so I certainly don't want an iOS system only, but having it as a boot option would be sweet. For what I would be using iOS for (EverNote, Flipboard, web browsing), this would be ideal.

 

[iMacmatician]

I've read GDDR5 is 2-3 times faster at same clock speed. It's almost more efficient thus consumes less power. It's up to the GPU too, it must be fast enough to take advantage of GDDR5

Effective clock of GDDR5 is double that of GDDR3.

(roadmap of ati 2010-2011) 128 bit busses still here 🙁 whats the possibility of a 356 bit bus 🙁

Granville, Capilano, and Robson appear to be Evergreen GPUs.

Blackcomb, Whistler, and Seymour appear to be Southern Islands GPUs. Blackcomb is probably the mobile version of Barts, the Southern Islands desktop successor to Juniper (note the 256-bit bus).

 

[DoFoT9]

Dual Boot: current MacOS line and iOS; or even better, the ability to have an iOS emulator running on the MacOS

are you deadly serious? what advantages could having iOS on a computer could there possibly be?

Touchscreen for use with iOS

there is noway i am putting my grubby hands on that gorguz screen 😉

iOS being able to access files on the MacOS side

not gonna happen.

Backlit keyboard

now we're talking 🙂 ive been wanting this for a while!

1TB drive as an option

option? you want 500GB as standard?

Compact Flash, SDD slots

SDD slot wow. that would be like an express slot on the side. me likey! too bad it wont happen 🙁

Blue-ray would be nice, but I'm not to the point of using my computer for much vid, so remaning with DVD is fine for me

haha dont get that one started.

Effective clock of GDDR5 is double that of GDDR3.

interesting. what is that due to?