Apple in Talks to Purchase Intel's German Modem Unit

[developer13245]

How can China steal something they already have?
Why would China need to steal Intel's inferior 5G tech? It doesn't make sense.

Good points, however keep in mind that sometimes even an inferior competitor is acquired (or in China's case stolen) to prevent that inferior competition from ever leap frogging the leaders. Yes, this is a nuance point but I hope people begin to understand this is how anticompetitive behavior works - especially in China. Elimination of competition, even inferior competition, is usually a safe move while the leaders have the lead. This is SO much worse when a Chinese company is leading because their main strategy becomes unfair dumping, and further innovation halts - they don't innovate, but just steal, clone and dump to push competition out.
[doublepost=1560395295][/doublepost]

Huawei, Nokia and Ericsson happen to be the leading suppliers of 5G equipment. The US is desperately trying to kill off Huawei by badgering foreign governments not to do deals with them. However, the options are limited.

Keep in mind that Nokia now owns what was AT&T Bell Labs / Lucent via purchase from Alcatel. Let that sink in for a moment.... Now, the USA doesn't have a domestic 5G equipment manufacturer, and Nokia is not "playing ball" as much as the USA government would like (you didn't hear that from me). So last year (-ish) some "important" (current/former US government 'players') petitioned "private industry" for a huge investment in a 5G equipment manufacturer (right, like such a huge company can just appear out of thin air). "Private Industry" investors privately told the United Government to go "covfefe" themselves because who is going to invest billions of dollars when China will dump product below cost to put a new US startup out of business. (BTW, This is exactly how Alcatel ended up buying Lucent in the first place - the French government protected Alcatel's home monopoly so Alcatel could undercut Lucent across global markets, and it worked!)

The US government has been stupid for so long while US tech has been robbed by unfair foreign competition. Now that's finally changing. This is why the US government is finally beginning to fight the war they've been ignoring for the last 30 years. Glad they finally figured it out, but it's going to be a long battle. And bloody - the Huawei CFO under house arrest in BC will never be extradited to the USA to face the charges against her - she'll be returning to China in a box via poison pill - it's the expected sacrifice for the revolutionary "cause". At least she'll have many dim-sum "last meals" before her end.

 

[ROGmaster]

Good points, however keep in mind that sometimes even an inferior competitor is acquired (or in China's case stolen) to prevent that inferior competition from ever leap frogging the leaders. Yes, this is a nuance point but I hope people begin to understand this is how anticompetitive behavior works - especially in China. Elimination of competition, even inferior competition, is usually a safe move while the leaders have the lead. This is SO much worse when a Chinese company is leading because their main strategy becomes unfair dumping, and further innovation halts - they don't innovate, but just steal, clone and dump to push competition out.

You don't make any sense, why would China need to steal something that is worse than what they already have?
China is ahead in the 5G game in the purest capitalist fashion, because they are providing better quality networking equipment at lower prices then their competition. They have no use for Intel's inferior vaporware 5G tech.
Also pushing competition out is a capitalist thing in the first place and it's something big US companies liked or like to do in general. US Corporations like Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Intel, Qualcomm, Starbucks, Nike, Uber etc. were fined in recent years for anti-competitive practices.

https://www.lightreading.com/mobile...only-true-5g-supplier-right-now/d/d-id/747734

they don't innovate, but just steal, clone and dump to push competition out

Yeah right.
What about these?

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...gerprint-scanner-in-screen-announcement-specs
https://newatlas.com/oppo-10x-optical-smartphone-zoom/58085/
https://www.xda-developers.com/oppo-xiaomi-under-display-front-camera/
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...t-charging-smartphone-with-100w-quick-charge/
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...vooc-fast-charging-find-x-lamborghini-edition
https://www.gsa.europa.eu/newsroom/news/world-s-first-dual-frequency-gnss-smartphone-hits-market

 

[Applebot1]

Interesting thread with intelligent comments. Just shows how complicated chip design and manufacturing is.

We can all agree how well Apple have implemented the ‘A’ series( which I firmly believe a variant will one day be in their iMacs etc) In terms of modem design it’s more complicated. However, Apple no doubt, has a road map to implement their own.

Apple are playing the long game.

 

[ksec]

I hadn't heard this-- what a predictable disaster...

There were lots of other tidbit such as Custom Foundry not allowing access of information, even within the own Intel camp. ( How "Custom" is that ), basically it is bureaucracy that killed Intel. And even Intel's modem engineers are longing to join Apple.( At least that is what I heard when Qualcomm and Apple's agreement broke out )

On paper, Samsung's low cost phones don't seem terribly profitable for their telecom division (which is part of why Apple dominates on smartphone profit share), but it may be because while there are profits to be had in that market they show up in the semiconductor division.

When I said telecom division in my previous post , I meant Telecom infrastructure, like Nokia, Ericsson, ZTE and Huawei.
Their phone business belongs to Consumer electronics division.

Samsung is a hugely vertically integrated company, they are now even working on Smartphone Camera lens and CMOS ( Previously Sony had 80%+ market ). so the whole phone is now 80 to 90% self made, from Chemicals, Materials, to actual Components and assembly are all Samsung. As in any commodity market, you will need volume to sustain your business, so Samsung's Smartphone business is the cushion for those components, Assembly, and Chemicals etc. Which is why it is important for Samsung to make no profits making low end Smartphone, to make volume up for those division until they get enough external customers to sustain the business on its own.

Samsung still uses Qualcomm parts for their Galaxy S series, presumably because Qualcomm is still the design to beat on pure performance (and power). I don't know the full details of Samsung's lineup, you might, but I'd guess they ship their own modem in the devices they are trying to save cost on and shipping Qualcomm in their flagships.

I double check just in case, but Samsung uses both Qualcomm and their SoC for S Series. And the answer is simple, any region that requires CDMA ( On top of my head that is at least US and China ), they will use Qualcomm, and everywhere else they use their Own. And that was before the Settlement reached between Samsung and Qualcomm, in the future my guess is that Samsung will have access to CDMA patents and support it within their own Modem ( Not that anyone should cares by the time it ship ).

Just want add a side note, that was one of the reason why Qualcomm said it was unfair to name them as a monopoly. Once Huawei reaches settlement ( they are shipping their own modem now anyway ), you are looking at a Potential of Apple, Samsung and Huawei all shipping their own modem design. It is important to add the word "design" here as to show they are not taking Qualcomm Modem IP and just ship it, the Modem implementation are entirely each of their own. That is combined of 650M Smartphone in total, out of 1200M Total yearly Shipment. Qualcomm modem are left to compete with less than 50% of the market, there is Mediatek which is competing against Qualcomm in the low end. And if one day, BBK ( That is One Plus, Vivo Oppo ) and Xiaomi decide to make their own SoC and Modem with Spreadtrum, ( Or whatever new name it has now ), the third party modem market will be even smaller.

If that is their strategy going forward, it's hard to see how Apple continues selling a $1200 phone with second rate connectivity so if they make their own modems and fall short, it's a bust.

I think one reason why they have the supply agreement for 6 years. They knew this is going to be hard. And people expect absolute best from iPhone.

 

[developer13245]

You don't make any sense, why would China need to steal something that is worse than what they already have?
China is ahead in the 5G game in the purest capitalist fashion, because they are providing better quality networking equipment at lower prices then their competition. They have no use for Intel's inferior vaporware 5G tech.
Also pushing competition out is a capitalist thing in the first place and it's something big US companies liked or like to do in general. US Corporations like Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Intel, Qualcomm, Starbucks, Nike, Uber etc. were fined in recent years for anti-competitive practices.

https://www.lightreading.com/mobile...only-true-5g-supplier-right-now/d/d-id/747734

You're over simplifying tech. While the overall position of a player may not be leading, it possess an IP "portfolio" that contains value. Even bankrupt companies will own high value IP.

Regarding the quote from the (good!) article you list: "there is only one true 5G supplier right now and that is Huawei -- the others need to catch up."
The 'others' who need to catch up will need to acquire IP from various sources, in addition to what they need to develop on their own. If Huawei steals that IP it makes catching up more difficult.

re capitalist anti-competition: This is China's best weapon. They get to appear capitalist while also being an authoritarian communist regime. They are fooling a lot of people.

Yeah right.
What about these?

OK:
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...gerprint-scanner-in-screen-announcement-specs
Forced IP transfer: "The phone is the result of collaboration between Vivo and Synaptics, the US-based sensor maker."
Also applies to:
https://newatlas.com/oppo-10x-optical-smartphone-zoom/58085/

https://www.xda-developers.com/oppo-xiaomi-under-display-front-camera/
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...t-charging-smartphone-with-100w-quick-charge/
Vaporware until it ships and proves to be viable.

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...vooc-fast-charging-find-x-lamborghini-edition
Same parties "collaborating" as above. Just hope it doesn't burst into flames.

And finally:
https://www.gsa.europa.eu/newsroom/news/world-s-first-dual-frequency-gnss-smartphone-hits-market
"the first commercial deployment of Broadcom’s revolutionary BCM47755 chip."
Broadcom is a US company.

And, GNSS doesn't include China's inferior Beidou, which only achieved global coverage in late 2018.

Really, China tech "stands on the shoulders" of western tech that China ripped off.

 

[Analog Kid]

And, GNSS doesn't include China's inferior Beidou, which only achieved global coverage in late 2018.

To be fair, the European Galileo service also only achieved global coverage in 2018.

 

[ROGmaster]

You're over simplifying tech. While the overall position of a player may not be leading, it possess an IP "portfolio" that contains value. Even bankrupt companies will own high value IP.

Regarding the quote from the (good!) article you list: "there is only one true 5G supplier right now and that is Huawei -- the others need to catch up."
The 'others' who need to catch up will need to acquire IP from various sources, in addition to what they need to develop on their own. If Huawei steals that IP it makes catching up more difficult.

re capitalist anti-competition: This is China's best weapon. They get to appear capitalist while also being an authoritarian communist regime. They are fooling a lot of people.

I'm not over simplifying anything, I'm simply not spreading nonsense.
You were convinced that China would steal Intel's inferior 5G tech. That's absolute nonsense and instead of admitting it you try to to make up even more nonsense.

OK:
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...gerprint-scanner-in-screen-announcement-specs
Forced IP transfer: "The phone is the result of collaboration between Vivo and Synaptics, the US-based sensor maker."
Also applies to:
https://newatlas.com/oppo-10x-optical-smartphone-zoom/58085/

Incredible so you attempting to deny Vivo's merits?
And since when the collaboration between two companies = Forced IP transfer?
That's a very awkward attempt at being disingenuous.
Also:
The technology was introduced at Oppo's own 2019 Future Technology Communication Conference, but won't be "showcased in full" until Mobile World Congress in February.
Vivo and Oppo are introducing new technologies left and right and you are trying to call them thieves. LoL

https://www.xda-developers.com/oppo-xiaomi-under-display-front-camera/
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...t-charging-smartphone-with-100w-quick-charge/
Vaporware until it ships and proves to be viable.

LoL, denial at it's best.

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...vooc-fast-charging-find-x-lamborghini-edition
Same parties "collaborating" as above.

Yeah the same baseless denial taking in consideration thata:
VOOC (Voltage Open Loop Multi-step Constant-Current Charging) is a fast charging technology developed by OPPO Electronics, first introduced in 2014. VOOC Flash Charge uses a special adapter and cables to charge devices safely at 25W without overheating. It was succeeded by SuperVOOC in 2018.

Just hope it doesn't burst into flames.

That's a very cheap and pointless shot taking in consideration that the changer has been available for general consumers for quite some time.

And finally:
https://www.gsa.europa.eu/newsroom/news/world-s-first-dual-frequency-gnss-smartphone-hits-market
"the first commercial deployment of Broadcom’s revolutionary BCM47755 chip."
Broadcom is a US company.

And Xioami is a Chinese company and Alex Chou, product marketing VP at Broadcom said he's thrilled to be working with them. How do you explain that?

Really, China tech "stands on the shoulders" of western tech that China ripped off.

What ripoff are you talking about? The collaboration between companies is now qualified as ripoff? LoL

You claimed Chinese companies only know how to steal and don't innovate at all. This generalization is simply a lie.

 

[developer13245]

I'm not over simplifying anything, I'm simply not spreading nonsense.
You were convinced that China would steal Intel's inferior 5G tech. That's absolute nonsense and instead of admitting it you try to to make up even more nonsense.



Incredible so you attempting to deny Vivo's merits?
And since when the collaboration between two companies = Forced IP transfer?
That's a very awkward attempt at being disingenuous.
Also:
The technology was introduced at Oppo's own 2019 Future Technology Communication Conference, but won't be "showcased in full" until Mobile World Congress in February.
Vivo and Oppo are introducing new technologies left and right and you are trying to call them thieves. LoL



LoL, denial at it's best.


Yeah the same baseless denial taking in consideration thata:
VOOC (Voltage Open Loop Multi-step Constant-Current Charging) is a fast charging technology developed by OPPO Electronics, first introduced in 2014. VOOC Flash Charge uses a special adapter and cables to charge devices safely at 25W without overheating. It was succeeded by SuperVOOC in 2018.


That's a very cheap and pointless shot taking in consideration that the changer has been available for general consumers for quite some time.



And Xioami is a Chinese company and Alex Chou, product marketing VP at Broadcom said he's thrilled to be working with them. How do you explain that?



What ripoff are you talking about? The collaboration between companies is now qualified as ripoff? LoL

You claimed Chinese companies only know how to steal and don't innovate at all. This generalization is simply a lie.

My original claim was Chinese cannot innovate. You responded with a bunch of links describing "collaboration". Maybe you don't understand the difference, and admittedly many investors don't either (intentionally). Thanks for proving my point.

China rose to 'wherever' it is now due to a combination of arrogance, ignorance, and foul play. But that era is OVER.

Overall, China is toast because most people in the west have finally realized they are thieves - AND - are beginning to understand that China's biggest problem is how they've screwed up their own economy. The best part about this is now people are beginning to understand that a decoupling is both necessary AND possible with minimal effect.

I keep hearing people discount China's threat to the USA because China has already ruined their own economy. My response to those naive people is a simple question: Then why would we tie our economy to that sinking ship? They usually have no response beyond a blank quiet 'duh' expression. Funny.

Sure, there will be dolts who "hop in the sack" with them for "get rich quick" profits. And while some may actually succeed, the greater consensus among people in the west is "not with my investment dollars".

Again, in summary: The popular (ok even 'populist') consensus has turned against China due to the actions perpetrated by Chinese Communist Party (CPC). Sure there are well intentioned Chinese who really can do good work, but they're going down with the ship also - but that's not my concern because complacency is no excuse. Either starve to death behind a new iron curtain, or go under a tank... I don't really care.

China will never recover while the CPC exists. End of.

 

[lazard]

What's the point of buying Intel's modem unit division when they proved they couldn't even come up with a prototype 5G modem.

 

[ROGmaster]

My original claim was Chinese cannot innovate. You responded with a bunch of links describing "collaboration". Maybe you don't understand the difference, and admittedly many investors don't either (intentionally). Thanks for proving my point.

Not all are collaborations. The Vooc charger isn't, the 10X zoom camera also isn't, the tech Xiaomi showed isn't a colaboration. So I actually proved you wrong.

China rose to 'wherever' it is now due to a combination of arrogance, ignorance, and foul play.

So did the US of A. We are all benefiting from the work and inventions of our human ancestors, everything is interconnected.

But that era is OVER.

It doesn't look like that, it look like the Chinese leaders are actually smarter than the US leaders so things are not looking good for the US of A.

Overall, China is toast because most people in the west have finally realized they are thieves - AND - are beginning to understand that China's biggest problem is how they've screwed up their own economy. The best part about this is now people are beginning to understand that a decoupling is both necessary AND possible with minimal effect.

Baseless generalization and speculations.
Most people in the west will continue to buy goods made in china without any issues. That's what's important for the Chinese.
Also US's administration has been constantly losing trust since Trump is in charge.So they aren't actuality doing much better than China from an image stand point.

I keep hearing people discount China's threat to the USA because China has already ruined their own economy. My response to those naive people is a simple question: Then why would we tie our economy to that sinking ship? They usually have no response beyond a blank quiet 'duh' expression. Funny.

LoL, you live in a fantasy world if you think that.

Sure, there will be dolts who "hop in the sack" with them for "get rich quick" profits. And while some may actually succeed, the greater consensus among people in the west is "not with my investment dollars".

?

Again, in summary: The popular (ok even 'populist') consensus has turned against China due to the actions perpetrated by Chinese Communist Party (CPC). Sure there are well intentioned Chinese who really can do good work, but they're going down with the ship also - but that's not my concern because complacency is no excuse. Either starve to death behind a new iron curtain, or go under a tank... I don't really care.

What? You make no sense but anyway you are still wrong with you initial claim that the Chinese would steal Intel's inferior 5G tech.

China will never recover while the CPC exists. End of.

I don't see from what exactly they have to recover.

 

[100samsung]

Let me get this straight. Apple are trying to acquire the same baseband processor design team that failed to meet their own originally specified deadline ?

On the bright side, if Apple are ever finished with their modem design they won't need to implement CDMA technology since most CDMA networks currently operating would've shut down by then ...

No thay dont. there are two diffrent modem design teams:

Germany: 3g/4g
Israel: 5G

 

[developer13245]

Not all are collaborations. The Vooc charger isn't, the 10X zoom camera also isn't, the tech Xiaomi showed isn't a colaboration. So I actually proved you wrong.



So did the US of A. We are all benefiting from the work and inventions of our human ancestors, everything is interconnected.



It doesn't look like that, it look like the Chinese leaders are actually smarter than the US leaders so things are not looking good for the US of A.


Baseless generalization and speculations.
Most people in the west will continue to buy goods made in china without any issues. That's what's important for the Chinese.
Also US's administration has been constantly losing trust since Trump is in charge.So they aren't actuality doing much better than China from an image stand point.



LoL, you live in a fantasy world if you think that.


?



What? You make no sense but anyway you are still wrong with you initial claim that the Chinese would steal Intel's inferior 5G tech.



I don't see from what exactly they have to recover.

Despite the explanations given above, you don't understand "what they have to recover". In your defense, many people 'see' things (like anti-competitive behavior) they don't understand. That leads to ignorance. No worries, I'm here to help!

Without Google's Android distribution, all the devices you list are nothing more than paperweights. So they ALL NEED collaboration to even be in the mobile phone business.

Yes, yes, anyone can grab the pure "open source" of Android to create their own distribution, but then they upset 'Goo':

https://www.businessinsider.com/google-is-fighting-to-keep-doing-business-with-huawei-2019-6

But 'Goo' doesn't really give a covfefe about national security - All 'Goo' cares about is promulgating their Android distribution - because - it contains their Advertising system. Make sure you understand this:

'Goo' is NOT a software/tech company, it is an advertising company. User data is the life blood is its product. The Macrumors "APPLAUSE" sign just lit up... so now I have to say:

Similarly Apple is NOT a software company, its a hardware company. "BOOOO!!!"

The absence a 'Goo' Ad system running on every Android device is a threat to 'Goo'. I fully understand the US government will cave to 'Goo' because they have to. Yes, the US government knows 'Goo' is a monopoly (and even admits it), but they also know if the 'Goo' monopoly is broken up, it will be replaced with a Chinese monopoly (run by the CPC - see above). (BTW, this is why the US government lets 'Goo', and other US monopolies run rampant - they now finally understand how killing the AT&T monopoly in 1984 resulted in the Huawei 5G equipment mess today - see my post above).

And yes, Huawei and others can create their own Android distribution, but it will take time and be a POS. I actually hope they do. I've created my own Android builds for devices I have with open boot loaders. Sure it's not a shippable product - but it's good enough for me - and - it gets both Apple (iOS) and 'Goo' out of my life (yay). I'm able to do this because I have over 30 years of software development experience - but it's not easy. Yes there are technical challenges (fun) but there are also roadblocks 'Goo' specifically creates to inhibit such efforts (subject for a whole other discussion).
The main point is that just about every "script kiddie" graduating from a CS program in the last 15 years will not have the skills to crank out a shippable Android build - this is by design - why would 'Goo' donate to higher education that creates future competition? Also keep in mind 25% or more US CS graduates are Chinese nationals.

China really is in a pickle - it's game over:

https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinio...s-economic-dream-dying-beijing-now-has-choice

But sadly, there are some in the US who get it, but don't really "get it":

The first speaker really does a good job explaining how China has killed its own economy. But the sad part is the entire 'discussion' attempts to downplay China's threat to the west. Again, if China's economy is toast, why would any nation want to tie its own economy to China? (duh).

But the real problem this last video demonstrates is how pedigreed people end up in sinecure positions that damage the USA. None of the three morons in the video have had a real job in their lives - so while they all have knowledge, their influence on US policy is dangerous. I would bet China has sponsored some of the 'esteemed' positions they've held (while not even knowing who funded their salary) - but hey, I guess its good work if you can get it!
[doublepost=1560641099][/doublepost]One more thing: Speaker #1 in the video also explains why China is incapable of innovation. Watch and learn.

 

[developer13245]

But wait, there's more:

https://www.newsweek.com/2019/05/10...chnology-dangerous-myths-fantasy-1408874.html

Earlier this year Newt Gingrich was one of those idiots writing op-ed articles calling for major private investment in creating a 5G telecommunications equipment manufacturer. The funny part about this is he was a member of congress when AT&T was harassed by the US government into splitting up. This ended badly (see my posts above) and now the US has no domestic 5G telecom company - No Shiot Newt - you helped kill it.

So my question to the "experts" in the video above is: Would you invest your nest egg in a US 5G telecom startup? Again they are 'smart' people but practical idiots.

Now, after waging so much destruction on the US tech industry, Newt gets to admit he was wrong. How messed up is that?

Edit: here's his idiotic 5G article:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/new...china-and-the-clock-to-control-future-of-tech

Stupidest part:
"This could be a kind of wireless moonshot (but with private capital)"

Ok Newt, why don't you invest your entire fortune in it?

 

[developer13245]

It doesn't look like that, it look like the Chinese leaders are actually smarter than the US leaders so things are not looking good for the US of A.

I've certainly criticized my own government and its leaders for failing to protect its own tech industry. I have the freedom to do this. But making general statements about which country's leaders are smarter is senseless propaganda.

The Communist Part of China (CPC) is an authoritarian dictatorship that censors and thereby controls its own citizens. But the CPC cannot control people outside of its fiefdom - not realizing this has become their greatest error and will lead to the CPCs downfall.

US "leaders", including government and private industry, have also failed miserably in protecting their citizens from hostile foreign actions. But "We the People" now understand this and are free to make changes in our government, and industries. We do not live behind a "Great Firewall" so we are able to equip ourselves with accurate information to take informed actions.

And here's where China has created a huge mess in this regard:

https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2...a-meng-wanzhou-told-staff-one-may-accept-risk

Huawei founder Ren Zhengfei quote:

“The US has very strict compliance policies, but American companies are used to it,” Ren said. “Nobody dares to flout the law, it has become a habit, and they can still achieve high speeds. Our company has not yet formed this habit, that is why communication costs are too high.”

This quote from the CEO of Huawei damages all credibility. He's directly saying Huawei uses NON-compliance to maintain a cost advantage over competition. The US walked away from a trade deal because China refuses to implement laws that enforce compliance - This means China is NOT a "rule of law" country - because - It's authoritarian dictatorship and doesn't really need laws anyway.

Also consider:

https://thediplomat.com/2019/02/the-real-danger-of-chinas-national-intelligence-law/

Another Danger of China’s National Intelligence Law is that it essentially "conscripts" Chinese nationals in a similar manner to how Japanese nationals were conscripted during world war 2. This ended very badly for Japanese citizens in many Japanese cities (and specifically two - if you know history) at the end of the war.

So:

1. Chinese companies willfully engage in non-compliance, and even make it "company policy" to do so.
2. The Chinese require their citizens to engage in spying.
3. The US government has been derelict in their duty to defend the US against hostile actions perpetrated by China - and - US Industry leaders have been profiting from this dereliction.

This situation has created justification for US INDIVIDUALS to take direct action against Chinese interests, and Chinese nationals. Remember: Chinese people aren't really known for creativity.

China is capable of protecting its interests within its borders, but China doesn't even have a "Blue Water" navy, so this leaves their global interests and expatriate citizenry (spies) vulnerable.

So, Ren Zhengfei: You believe willful non-compliance is acceptable, so don't whine about China's "Hurt Feelings" when some VERY creative non-compliance adversely affects your interests, or the interests of your country and citizens. Remember: You started this, but people in the US have the right to, and the right to defend, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, even in the absence of effective government.

 

[ROGmaster]

Despite the explanations given above, you don't understand "what they have to recover". In your defense, many people 'see' things (like anti-competitive behavior) they don't understand. That leads to ignorance. No worries, I'm here to help!

Without Google's Android distribution, all the devices you list are nothing more than paperweights. So they ALL NEED collaboration to even be in the mobile phone business.

You made the generalist claim that China will never recover while the CPC exists so what you wrote above shows that you don't even know what you are talking about.
Also American companies like Google, Qualcomm, Intel are already lobbying in Hauwei's favor. Interesting, isn't it?

The first speaker really does a good job explaining how China has killed its own economy. But the sad part is the entire 'discussion' attempts to downplay China's threat to the west. Again, if China's economy is toast, why would any nation want to tie its own economy to China? (duh).

What's more interesting about that guy is that he is a self-proclaimed “anti-China”. Guys like him have been making predictions about the collapse of China for years.

So my answer is. We shall see, but I wouldn't bet against the Chinese right now.

Anyway I see no reason to continue this nonsense conversation with you when you are turning it into a political fest.
I made my point was regarding your absurd claim that the Chines would steal Intel's inferior 5G tech when they already have superior 5G tech at all levels so including both 5G modems and 5G equipment.
China is ahead in the 5G race, thta's the pure objective truth.

 

[developer13245]

You made the generalist claim that China will never recover while the CPC exists so what you wrote above shows that you don't even know what you are talking about.
Also American companies like Google, Qualcomm, Intel are already lobbying in Hauwei's favor. Interesting, isn't it?

The companies you list are indeed lobbing for Huawei, but this is for their own self interest and not of the USA. These companies are run by the "Tech Mafia" which has taken notice of how the China Communist Party (CPC) operates, and have implemented a similar operational structure within the US tech industry. The CPC operates by imbedding CPC members on the boards and upper management tiers of Chinese companies. These Chinese companies may appear to have "western style" operational structure, but they are run by the CPC.

This is why Huawei's CFO arrest is such a big deal - she's "The Money" connection between the CPC and Huawei.

US "Big Tech" has implemented their very own "shadow party" similar to the CPC by embedding their "members" within everything from "gate keeper" Venture Capitol firms all the way up the structure to the boards and upper management tiers of major US corporations. The US government and major political parties are practically subordinate to this USA tech mafia. US tech companies lobbying for Huawei, which is really a "ketou" to the CPC, proves this. The tech mafia actually admires the CPC's control, and have placed their own desire to have such control above any broader US national interests. This is the CPC's plan to attain global dominance without a "hot" war - and a tactic taken straight out of Sun Tzu's book "The Art of War".

What's more interesting about that guy is that he is a self-proclaimed “anti-China”. Guys like him have been making predictions about the collapse of China for years.

So my answer is. We shall see, but I wouldn't bet against the Chinese right now.

Yes, the anti-China "wonks" in positions of sinecure have been collecting paychecks for years. They're playing the important "useful idiot" role in promulgating the position that China is not a threat, while the CPC pulls off its plan in plain sight.

Anyway I see no reason to continue this nonsense conversation with you when you are turning it into a political fest.
I made my point was regarding your absurd claim that the Chines would steal Intel's inferior 5G tech when they already have superior 5G tech at all levels so including both 5G modems and 5G equipment.
China is ahead in the 5G race, thta's the pure objective truth.

Ok, I'll finally explain how this will work to you, read carefully:

Huawei is both a 5G device AND telecom equipment manufacturer. As Huawei ascends toward a dominant position they will refuse licensing of their "top tier" 5G device technology to companies who compete in the device market. Only Huawei phones will have the superior 5G speeds, features, etc... - so - they need a portfolio of "inferior" 5G tech to license to competitors. This affords Huawei ultimate control without appearing to completely "lock out" competition. Stealing Intel's inferior 5G tech (through tactics like legal-appearing forced technology transfer) is just the perfect way to acquire inferior 5G tech for this purpose.


Apple has been and will continue to be the perfect "useful idiot" playing perfectly into the CPC's long term strategy. Apple has been regarded as the high end luxury manufacturer, but has a limited global market share. The CPC relies on Apple's US market share because it "funds" Apple's tech R&D investment - this technology, paid for by the US consumer, ultimately gets transferred to China. The CPC has had its "fingers in the pie" of every Apple product manufactured in China. This has allowed China to accomplish its goals of technology acquisition without paying the associated costs. This has resulted in a tremendous transfer of wealth out of the USA - something the leaders of Google, Apple, et.al. see as an accomplishment.

 

[ROGmaster]

As Huawei ascends toward a dominant position they will refuse licensing of their "top tier" 5G device technology to companies who compete in the device market. Only Huawei phones will have the superior 5G speeds, features, etc... - so - they need a portfolio of "inferior" 5G tech to license to competitors.

Nonsense. They can simply scale down the performance and features of their own equipment and modems.
You don't know what you are talking about.

Stealing Intel's inferior 5G tech (through tactics like legal-appearing forced technology transfer) is just the perfect way to acquire inferior 5G tech for this purpose.

This is just baseless, illogical nonsense.

 

[developer13245]

Nonsense. They can simply scale down the performance and features of their own equipment and modems.
You don't know what you are talking about.

You don't understand the difference between selling and licensing. Again, the depth of an IP portfolio is key. Manufacturing and selling "crippled" product not a good idea - why incur the costs of running a production facility to produce a crippled version of your premier tech. Licensing a 3rd party to produce inferior tech is cheaper and prevents theft of IP. This also assists the other goal of lowering costs so the inferior tech can be dumped with minimal cost and loss.

Again, it's about "optics". Directly peddling crippled product to competition looks bad. "Licensing" can appear to be a cooperative agreement because it uses a 3rd party (or multiple parties) that can be labeled as a lower cost option (or other BS), which then creates the illusion of supporting a larger, diverse/robust/blah/blah/bs/whatever market. Huawei can license a "competitor" to manufacture the inferior tech knowing (and by intent) the competitor will severely undercut Huawei's own superior technology that Huawei prices in the stratosphere - then Huawei can hide behind excuses like: "previous licensing agreements prevent us being cost competitive in that area" - and/or - "due to alternative low cost options available we did not plan high volumes of production for our...".

Again, the goal of anti-competitve behavior is to manipulate markets. Individual actions will seem illogical if one is basing judgments on an naive assumption of fair competition. If China were competing fairly, everything you've said would be correct. I realize this is hard to understand.

 

[ROGmaster]

You don't understand the difference between selling and licensing.

There's no licensing anyway as Chinese companies can only license their own IP and not stolen IP(you did say that they would just steal Intel's 5G IP) if we are talking about patents. Like I's said you are just spreading nonsense.

Again, the depth of an IP portfolio is key. Manufacturing and selling "crippled" product not a good idea - why incur the costs of running a production facility to produce a crippled version of your premier tech. Licensing a 3rd party to produce inferior tech is cheaper and prevents theft of IP. This also assists the other goal of lowering costs so the inferior tech can be dumped with minimal cost and loss.

Again you don't know what you are talking about.
And I didn't write anything about selling crippled products, I specifically said "scaled down". Most tech companies do it because it makes economical sense. Look at Intel or Qualcomm for example. They don't sell and manufacture only premium processors and they don't license inferior versions of their tech to 3rd parties.

Again, it's about "optics". Directly peddling crippled product to competition looks bad. "Licensing" can appear to be a cooperative agreement because it uses a 3rd party (or multiple parties) that can be labeled as a lower cost option (or other BS), which then creates the illusion of supporting a larger, diverse/robust/blah/blah/bs/whatever market. Huawei can license a "competitor" to manufacture the inferior tech knowing (and by intent) the competitor will severely undercut Huawei's own superior technology that Huawei prices in the stratosphere - then Huawei can hide behind excuses like: "previous licensing agreements prevent us being cost competitive in that area" - and/or - "due to alternative low cost options available we did not plan high volumes of production for our...".

What you wrote doesn't make sense, you are just making up illogical conspiracy theories.
Huawei generally doesn't license to competitors their tech anyway(except some patents but that's only so they can get in exchange access to other vital patents form other companies). So taking this fact into consideration then all of the things you made up right now are simply pointless and nonsensical.
Also what "competitor" are you talking about in the first place? To who would Huawei license their tech? And exactly what tech would they license? I bet that you don't know.

Again, the goal of anti-competitve behavior is to manipulate markets. Individual actions will seem illogical if one is basing judgments on an naive assumption of fair competition. If China were competing fairly, everything you've said would be correct. I realize this is hard to understand.

You do realize that you are talking from a pure hypothetical point of view that doesn't even make sense anyway?
So Chinese companies invested a lot of money and resources in getting ahead in the 5G game and you are suggesting that they would go through the trouble of STEALING inferior 5G tech from a company that failed to deliver a mobile phone 5G modem(when ZTE and Huawei are preparing to launch 5G phones and Mediatek already announced their first SOC with an integrated 5G modem) because you think that would supposedly confuse their competition in case these Chinese companies are licensing their hardware, but as they don't do that doesn't make sense anyway.

Be serious, you are simply wrong.
Also it's amusing how you insist on the idea that the Chinese companies would only be interesting to steal Intel's inferior 5G tech. Like they can't just buy Intel's 5G division it they wanted anyway. So right form start you only concentrate on the perspective that the Chinese can only be dishonest and shady and that's all.
From the looks of it the only company that's interested in Intel's inferior 5G tech is Apple and thta's it.

 

[developer13245]

There's no licensing anyway as Chinese companies can only license their own IP and not stolen IP(you did say that they would just steal Intel's 5G IP) if we are talking about patents. Like I's said you are just spreading nonsense.



Again you don't know what you are talking about.
And I didn't write anything about selling crippled products, I specifically said "scaled down". Most tech companies do it because it makes economical sense. Look at Intel or Qualcomm for example. They don't sell and manufacture only premium processors and they don't license inferior versions of their tech to 3rd parties.



What you wrote doesn't make sense, you are just making up illogical conspiracy theories.
Huawei generally doesn't license to competitors their tech anyway(except some patents but that's only so they can get in exchange access to other vital patents form other companies). So taking this fact into consideration then all of the things you made up right now are simply pointless and nonsensical.
Also what "competitor" are you talking about in the first place? To who would Huawei license their tech? And exactly what tech would they license? I bet that you don't know.



You do realize that you are talking from a pure hypothetical point of view that doesn't even make sense anyway?
So Chinese companies invested a lot of money and resources in getting ahead in the 5G game and you are suggesting that they would go through the trouble of STEALING inferior 5G tech from a company that failed to deliver a mobile phone 5G modem(when ZTE and Huawei are preparing to launch 5G phones and Mediatek already announced their first SOC with an integrated 5G modem) because you think that would supposedly confuse their competition in case these Chinese companies are licensing their hardware, but as they don't do that doesn't make sense anyway.

Be serious, you are simply wrong.
Also it's amusing how you insist on the idea that the Chinese companies would only be interesting to steal Intel's inferior 5G tech. Like they can't just buy Intel's 5G division it they wanted anyway. So right form start you only concentrate on the perspective that the Chinese can only be dishonest and shady and that's all.
From the looks of it the only company that's interested in Intel's inferior 5G tech is Apple and thta's it.

Where one's opinion falls on this matter depends on whether one considers China's tactics are malfeasance. If Apple acquires IP via the purchase of a 3rd party then licenses a company in China to use that IP, it tosses that IP "into the ring" of a system that is not operating with viable "rule of law". This is not hypothetical, it is reality. It is THE main issue that must be addressed with China, but will never be resolved effectively while the CPC authoritarian dictatorship exists. ANY action that appears to be "progress" is just misdirection (a con) so the CPC can continue its war against the USA. It is ignorant to believe this will be allowed to continue by US and western citizenry. You fooled us once, shame on you, but don't even think about trying to fool us again.

I've worked in tech for 30+ years and have seen IP portfolios managed brilliantly to advance greater corporate goals - this IS business. I've also witnessed IP portfolios managed with the narrow goal of "cashing out" founders with NO regard to future company stability and pink slips for the employees who worked to build the IP - this also IS business. This may not appear "fair", but in a rule of law system there are at least some controls to avoid complete chaos. US tech leaders have been colluding with the CPC while the US government has looked the other way - now this collusion has been exposed. The US tech industry needs to be cleaned up or the US won't have a tech industry in 10 years. The falling rates of US STEM graduates is a direct indication that entering the tech industry is not a safe bet.

2019 is the "Year of the Pig" and China IS the smelly "fat feral pig" in the room, pooping on the floor. It must be put down.

 

[ROGmaster]

Where one's opinion falls on this matter depends on whether one considers China's tactics are malfeasance. If Apple acquires IP via the purchase of a 3rd party then licenses a company in China to use that IP, it tosses that IP "into the ring" of a system that is not operating with viable "rule of law". This is not hypothetical, it is reality. It is THE main issue that must be addressed with China, but will never be resolved effectively while the CPC authoritarian dictatorship exists. ANY action that appears to be "progress" is just misdirection (a con) so the CPC can continue its war against the USA. It is ignorant to believe this will be allowed to continue by US and western citizenry. You fooled us once, shame on you, but don't even think about trying to fool us again.

I've worked in tech for 30+ years and have seen IP portfolios managed brilliantly to advance greater corporate goals - this IS business. I've also witnessed IP portfolios managed with the narrow goal of "cashing out" founders with NO regard to future company stability and pink slips for the employees who worked to build the IP - this also IS business. This may not appear "fair", but in a rule of law system there are at least some controls to avoid complete chaos. US tech leaders have been colluding with the CPC while the US government has looked the other way - now this collusion has been exposed. The US tech industry needs to be cleaned up or the US won't have a tech industry in 10 years. The falling rates of US STEM graduates is a direct indication that entering the tech industry is not a safe bet.

2019 is the "Year of the Pig" and China IS the smelly "fat feral pig" in the room, pooping on the floor. It must be put down.

OK, I don't care.
To who would Huawei license their tech? And exactly what tech would they license?
You kept making up all kind of implausible scenarios and you can't even support any of them.