Apple in Talks with Intel?

[dongmin]

No need to get your undies in a bunch.

The WSJ article simply says that Apple is "in talks" to use "Intel chips" in future Macs. That's about the only piece of news in the article. The rest is speculation and rehashing of previous Apple-x86 rumors. The rumor is so so vague that it's not worth getting in a huff and puff about what's good and not good for Apple. Many many possibilities behind this story:

1. Apple may simply be putting more pressure on IBM
2. Apple may only migrate a part of its PCs to Intel
3. The negotiations could go nowhere.
4. Apple is interested in other Intel technologies like USB, WiMax, etc.
5. Someone may be dropping rumors to inflate Apple's stock.

 

[chicagdan]

Bad assumptions

There are a whole lot of bad assumptions being made on this story.

First, you have to assume that Intel is the source of the leak. Apple doesn't leak stuff like this and Intel has more to gain from the rumor. MS is putting out an X Box on PPC, Sony is in love with the Cell processor, AMD is eating its lunch from a performance standpoint, Intel needs some good news.

Second, you all assume that this is Apple panicking, I think this story is about Intel panicking. This is a company in trouble, it's customer base is shrinking and they need astronomical sales for as far as they eye can see to justify their stock price. Apple, I have no doubt, came to the table at Intel's request.

Third, just because Apple is talking to Intel doesn't mean that it also isn't talking to AMD and to Sony/Toshiba/IBM about the Cell. Apple learned its lesson from Motorola, you can't trust one supplier when it comes to processors, you have to keep your options open.

Fourth, who the hell knows what kind of end product they're talking about? It could be a dual boot Windows/OSX machine intended for the corporate world for all we know.

Fifth, who knows what processor they are talking about? Intel won't be making PPC chips (there's a little something called intellectual property and I seriously doubt that IBM and Motorola would license the technology cheaply) but there could be a third processor in the works that isn't PPC or x86. I imagine that Intel understands that the life of the x86 processor line isn't infinite ... and perhaps they see Apple as a way to commercialize a new chip without having to build in Windows backward compatibility.

Sixth, Steve Jobs has really done a job on all of you. What difference would it make if Apple switched to Intel? It doesn't mean OS-X is now a free-for-all OS ... you can control the configurations on an Intel box just as easily as you control them on PPC.

 

[alandail]

It will not have to emulate the x86 instruction set, but it would have to emualte the Windows system calls. This is how VMware works. Also Wine...

No, the approach I was talking about in those posts was to simply run windows itself in a window inside of MacOS X. That would be the easiest way. The idea of emulating windows itself, thus both not requiring windows and also potentially being able to give a windows app an Mac user interface is also possible, but I'm not sure how practical that is for someone like Apple, who would have to ensure very close to 100% compatibility to an OS they don't own. Their best bet would be a virtual PC type solution that actually installs and runs windows.

 

[Yvan256]

Found this comment on Slashdot:

What really happened ... (Score:5, Funny)
by maxwell demon (590494) on Monday May 23, @09:37AM (#12611351)
Steve Jobs said he liked the potato chips he was offered during an Intel presentation, and plans to sell the same chips in Apple's cafeteria as well.

 

[muffler]

Code Weavers is just a wrapper for wine. Wine is an emulator. It emulates windows API calls. It runs nothing NATIVE at all.

being a long time Linux and Mac user, the amount of lunacy in this thread seems to indicate that mac users are not as smart as I thought.

Hey smartie, there is not a single line of code recompiled, so how would that be run, if not native ?
WINE does not emulate anything, it just translates those API calls to the WINE built in libs, with zero delay and the performance in some cases is better than on MS's own APIs.

 

[nomore]

Code Weavers is just a wrapper for wine. Wine is an emulator. It emulates windows API calls. It runs nothing NATIVE at all.

No it doesn't emulate anything. WINE stands for "Wine Is Not an Emulator".

It's a set of compatible libraries. It runs Windows software natively.

 

[poundsmack]

Found this comment on Slashdot:

What really happened ... (Score:5, Funny)
by maxwell demon (590494) on Monday May 23, @09:37AM (#12611351)
Steve Jobs said he liked the potato chips he was offered during an Intel presentation, and plans to sell the same chips in Apple's cafeteria as well.

hahaha i wouldnt dought it for a second

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

emulate |??mj?le?t| verb [ trans. ]
match or surpass (a person or achievement), typically by imitation : lesser men trying to emulate his greatness.
• imitate : hers is not a hairstyle I wish to emulate.
• Computing reproduce the function or action of (a different computer or software system).

To take open source acronyms literary is not always a good idea...

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

That'd be more PPC->x86 instead of PPC->intel (as AMD and VIA both make x86 processors too).

Correct, it was inprecise of me... Anger is often the mother of bad arguing.
I was just frustrated that Apple seem to be walking away from all their brilliant ideas in the name of conformity.
The majority is not by necessity always correct.
You should follow your own brain, instead of the ass of the guy infront of you.
Whatever happened to think differently?

 

[cube]

However,80% of the users in the desktop market arn't techies

But that's not Itanic's market.

 

[rubberband]

The reason why I beleive Apple and Intel have been in talks relates to the possibility of Intel producing PPC. Intel, MS, AMD and the whole industry knows that the X.86 architecture is vulnarable on harware. And then u get Windows with its holes and you are doomed.

So Intel being the "chip king" has not being able to deliever a decent dual core processor... sad! and AMD has the opteron on dual core but only running at 2.4 ghz... wow-- the chip manutacturers!

Now comes IBM, which manutactures chip, pc, laptops,and so on...AND delievers a PPC derivative with 3 cores and running at 3.2 ghz...

Then it associates with an ELECTRONICS manufacturer, Sony, and another colleague in the computer business, Toshiba and produce a work of art -- the Cell (Playstation's running 8 cores all running at 3.2ghz)...

and since ibm, is like apple they dont give all they've got at the time till they are seven spets after that-- in lab the cell has been clock to 5.2ghz, and nine core cell running at 4.6ghz have been used.

COME ON! what happened to the "king" i just mention... the cell is a 256 gigaflops chip , intel tops at 60 or less

the future is PPC not only for the sake of security, but for the fact that as IBm says one socket doesn't fit all. And apple is a living proof: if Apple were to go X.86, ppl would get their software but not harware.
Hardware and software control is what keeps apple ahead and stable (yes, a direct stab at ms)

So here is Apple producing software coded at X.86, then ppl puts it on once windows pcs and u get Apple creating an indirect copy of windows as it has to become a fountain of drivers and support for all the billions of configurations available for pcs.

Apple is not a company based on share price, it is the BMW of computers, is marketshare is always to be relatively low but dominant. that is not their fault, it is mere capitalism. you dont see everyone on bm's.

Apple should remain with its PPC bases, and hope for the growth of IBM, which is for sure as it produces chip for Xbox and Playstation. IBM just mirrored (doubled) itself selling chip. The potential is there all u need it time.

Ps. g5 in pb coming soon to a theater near you!

 

[jimbosyn]

Hey smartie, there is not a single line of code recompiled, so how would that be run, if not native ?
WINE does not emulate anything, it just translates those API calls to the WINE built in libs, with zero delay and the performance in some cases is better than on MS's own APIs.

Ok. I really have to take issue with the "zero dalay" and "in some cases better" statement. My experience with Code Weavers has been poor. Sure you can run ms office on Linux, but there are many options and features that do not work as they should in a NATIVE windows environment.

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

Well, here's the my idea:

If Apple moved some/all of its machines to Intel x86 chips, they will be using all dual-core chips.

Windows (if licensed and installed) could run on one of the cores in its own "finder", while Mac OS X runs simultaneously. iMacs, Powerbooks, iBooks, etc. could all do this. Dual dual-core processors (i.e., Powermacs) could have either OS using 1, 2 or 3 processors (except Mac OS X could use all 4 if Windows Finder was off).

This wouldn't really require an x86 emulator, and Windows apps could conceivably have direct access to the video card, etc. in full-screen mode. This means games would have identical performance as on Windows, but OS X apps could be running in the background on the other processor if the app didn't need the video card, etc.

I've been suggesting a similar idea ever since Mr. Jobs brought up the idea of "multiple finders" at on of the Macworlds some time ago. Dashboard is really the first of these. Windows running natively on the same dual core chip along with OS X would allow for the second "finder". This could potentially allow Linux, etc. to be run at the same time as well, but there really wouldn't be as much interest as there would be for simultaneous Windows apps to be run.

Any feedback?

Can it be done?

 

[CmdrLaForge]

Bull. You are making assumption as to where IBM's resources are. Neither you nor anyone outside of Apple or IMB knows why we are seeing the stagnations we are seeing.

If you would work in the industry for a while and you could count 1+1 you could make those assumptions

 

[jimbosyn]

No it doesn't emulate anything. WINE stands for "Wine Is Not an Emulator".

It's a set of compatible libraries. It runs Windows software natively.

Ok were talking symantecs here. Wine is an emulator of API calls, or should I say mapper? No cpu emulation is done, thus the name is "Wine Is Not an Emulator". But it does emulate, or translate windows api calls. FAQ from http://www.winehq.org

2.1. What is Wine and what is it supposed to do?

Wine is a program which allows the operation of DOS and MS Windows programs (Windows 3.x and Win32 executables) on UNIX operating systems such as Linux. It consists of a program loader, which loads and executes a Windows binary, and a set of libraries that implements Windows API calls using their UNIX or X11 equivalents. The libraries may also be used for porting Win32 code into native UNIX executables, often without many changes in the source. Wine is free software, and its license (contained in the file LICENSE in each distribution) is the LGPL.

 

[ZLurker]

wow

Found this comment on Slashdot:

What really happened ... (Score:5, Funny)
by maxwell demon (590494) on Monday May 23, @09:37AM (#12611351)
Steve Jobs said he liked the potato chips he was offered during an Intel presentation, and plans to sell the same chips in Apple's cafeteria as well.

I almost wet my pants reading this!!
My god, this is funny

 

[muffler]

Ok. I really have to take issue with the "zero dalay" and "in some cases better" statement. My experience with Code Weavers has been poor. Sure you can run ms office on Linux, but there are many options and features that do not work as they should in a NATIVE windows environment.

So when was that, in 2001 ?

 

[jimbosyn]

So when was that, in 2001 ?

Funny Guy! It was with SuSE 9.2 on a P4 3.4 with 1 gig of ram. There are visual issues with icons, fonts, crashes. Just my experience. I have actually used it since 2001, and seen massive improvements. My only point is that a virtal machine solution like virtualpc or vmware makes more sense to me.

 

[Daveway]

Good Lord! Do brokers think MS is going to go bankrupt because Apple may be coming to Intel?!?!?!

BTW: I'm pretty sure the widget has a fart in its head, or some guys at Apple are having some fun.

 

[paulypants]

I hope not. I hope IBM gets there collective butts in gear, I don't ever want a computer that doubles as a sticker album. (ie Intel Inside, ugh)

 

[sinisterdesign]

I think the move to x86 architecture is a wise move on Apple's part. How many Mac users really care what chips are inside their macs? It's not like it makes a difference. All this bad mouthing of intel chips is just a trained response with no basis in reality.

how many users care? quite a few, i'm sure. but the question is, how many software developers care that have sank many many hours into developing all their software for OSX? if i were Adobe/Macromedia, Quark, Microsoft, etc. and had stuck w/ Apple through all the hard times only to have Apple yank the rug out of under them and say, "just kidding about all that work. pretty funny joke, huh??", i would be p!$$ed as a @#*&^. i wouldn't make any of my software work for Apple/Intel just to spite them.

Apple would be stuck w/ slightly faster computers, although they wouldn't be selling any of them b/c HP & Dell undercut all their hardware prices and they would no longer have software developers writing software for them. and you can FORGET about Office for Mac. if Apple steps into the x86 world, do you think M$ is going to continue to develop Office??? puh-leeze.

awful, awful move. shudder to think about it.

Think Different, Apple. if you go to Intel, you're just thinking like everyone else (or like they did 10 years ago...)

 

[mac-er]

Investors and analysts obviously take a lot of credibility in this story...

Dow, Nasdaq Post Gains As Investors Cheer Report on Apple-Intel Microprocessor Talks

NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street extended last week's rally Monday, pushing stocks higher as the bullish mood was buoyed by news that Apple Computer Inc. was in talks with Intel Corp. to use Intel microprocessors in the Macintosh computer line.

Wall Street was cheered by the Apple report as such a change could be the biggest shift in the Mac's makeup since it came out in 1984 and could make the machines less expensive.

...

An Apple move to Intel's chips would make Macs far less expensive -- a major hurdle in Apple's ongoing battle with cheaper PCs already using Intel processors and Microsoft's operating system. The possible deal, reported in The Wall Street Journal, could spell trouble for International Business Machines Corp., Apple's current supplier.

Intel rose 13 cents to $26.48 and Apple added $2.06 to $39.61, while IBM lost 10 cents to $76.31.

 

[fluidinclusion]

Sticker album distaste

I hope not. I hope IBM gets there collective butts in gear, I don't ever want a computer that doubles as a sticker album. (ie Intel Inside, ugh)

I agree, that's one of the most annoying things I've run across of x86 hardware. It is a detraction of the style of the machine. Can't the sticker be on the back of the machine? Does your TV have the manufacturer of the cathode ray tube on the front? It's the critical component, but of course not! On many computers I've seen, people have removed the stickers anyway, but the depression and sticky goo remain.

 

[jwhitnah]

Investors and analysts obviously take a lot of credibility in this story...

investors don't know jack

 

[muffler]

Funny Guy! It was with SuSE 9.2 on a P4 3.4 with 1 gig of ram. There are visual issues with icons, fonts, crashes. Just my experience. I have actually used it since 2001, and seen massive improvements. My only point is that a virtal machine solution like virtualpc or vmware makes more sense to me.

Why the hell would you emulate the instruction set of x86 on its own architecture, just to get WIN API ?

Sounds to me like ordering decaffeinated coffee and then adding caffein when it comes to the table.