Apple in Talks with Major Banks to Launch Apple Pay in UK During First Half of 2015

[Robert.Walter]

Happily used Pay here in Switzerland today at Migros (to buy a lightning Fock cable) and coop to buy some groceries.

Working great here for both us bank visa and Amex cards issued in the USA.

 

[Zxxv]

Anyone moving banks because one allows them to use Apple Pay and another doesn't (yet)? I don't think so. Moving banks is a major hassle.

Not anymore it isnt. Your new bank will even move your direct debits over. It's so easy like swapping mobile phone providers. Times have a changed.

 

[ptb42]

Like yourself, I'll believe it when I see it. I'm sick of waiting to get iTunes Radio.

iTunes Radio requires licensing of the music. The UK has different licensing agencies than the US.

The questions you should be asking: has Apple taken the time to approach the licensing agencies? Are the licensing agencies offering reasonable terms? Is Apple asking for reasonable terms?

The technical issues are likely not the hold-up in the UK, or anywhere else in the world.

 

[ptb42]

Why so slow, even in the UK? The rest of the world, especially smaller countries, probably can forget about Pay for any foreseeable future

Apple Pay implements the new EMV tokenization standard, which requires software changes by the bank that issues the credit/debit card.

I do consulting work for banks. Among all my customers, financial institutions are the most conservative when making changes to their systems. The development lifecycle is very long, and has many steps to satisfy the auditors and regulatory agencies before even the smallest change can be deployed.

In the US, a lot of this effort went on behind the scenes before Apple Pay was ever announced. So, while may have appeared it was implemented relatively quickly, the design and development effort started much earlier.

 

[Apple2Euser]

What about Canada?
We have had NFC terminals for ever and US Bank cards work here.

 

[Shunnabunich]

What about Canada?
We have had NFC terminals for ever and US Bank cards work here.

Pretty sure Apple is studiously ignoring us. To be fair, though, there are larger markets elsewhere, even in geographically smaller and more remote countries.

 

[stevemiller]

What about Canada?
We have had NFC terminals for ever and US Bank cards work here.

I tweeted at Td, and they tweeted back that the hold up is Canadian regulations, which I assume in turn are heavily influenced by bank lobbying.

So not that this is the most important issue to get all "activist" about, but who does one go to next? Do you write your member of parliament?

 

[ZCT]

Great

I think this is awesome news.

The UK, along with over 80 countries use the chip and PIN system. I was just there in November, and outside of the tourist parts like London, American credit cards with the bit of VHS tape glued to the back are considered pretty old fashioned. Many shops won't even take them.

So I had to buy a pre-paid debit card at the airport, which is not cool because many of the benefits of using my credit card are lost, such as earning air miles or hotel points, and some of the purchase protections I have.

We in the US have been left far behind (Britain has been on Chip and PIN for over a decade now), so hopefully this Apple Pay will put us leading from the front. When we travel abroad we can use our phones to pay.

I actually forgot my wallet at the house the other day, and was still able to run all my errands and make my purchases at Home Depot and a local grocery chain without even needing my wallet.

 

[vpndev]

Just reading some of the comments posted below said article, it certainly makes for a good laugh.

Mind you the Daily Fail did plenty of scaremongering surrounding contactless payments recently also:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ained-trust-new-contactless-credit-cards.html

The stuff about "scanning" people's cards isn't scaremongering - it does happen. I have only one card with this "feature" and it never leaves home (use it for online purchases only).

I don't know if having the EMV chip makes it less hackable (mine does not).

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I think this is awesome news.

The UK, along with over 80 countries use the chip and PIN system. I was just there in November, and outside of the tourist parts like London, American credit cards with the bit of VHS tape glued to the back are considered pretty old fashioned. Many shops won't even take them.

My experience in August was quite different. I traveled a lot (not in London at all) and no-one refused my swipe card. Some were a bit puzzled but it was accepted even in small towns.

I'll be a lot happier when we get chip cards though !

 

[Gaspode67]

Understanding the British Press.....

I tend to bow out of threads when people start with the 'Daily Mail' Cliche.

It's become a Godwins Law of its own.


But back on topic, In theory it should be easier to get up and running in the UK, fewer banks, an extensive, established NFC network, etc.

The £20 limit should go for fingerprint authenticated purchases, and indeed would need to, it would be embarrassing not to be able to use Apple Pay in an Apple Store, where few things cost less than the £20 limit!

It pays to have an understanding of what each newspaper panders to. In the words of Jim Hacker:



Sir Humphrey: The only way to understand the Press is to remember that they pander to their readers' prejudices.

Jim Hacker: Don't tell me about the Press. I know *exactly* who reads the papers.
The Daily Mirror is read by the people who think they run the country.
The Guardian is read by people who think they *ought* to run the country.
The Times is read by the people who actually *do* run the country.
The Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country.
The Financial Times is read by people who *own* the country.
The Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by *another* country.
The Daily Telegraph is read by the people who think it already is.

Sir Humphrey: Prime Minister, what about the people who read The Sun?

Bernard Woolley: Sun readers don't care *who* runs the country - as long as she's got big t**s.

 

[Jeff Meredith]

Google may be losing money with Google Wallet

It might actually be some sort of legal issue preventing Google Wallet from being usable outside the US. Otherwise US residents wouldn't be blocked from using it overseas either.

In the case of Apple Pay, Apple provides the device and stays out of the transaction. That is why the banks are so willing to advertise it and promote it. Apple still provides a link to activate cards and deactivate cards and lock the phone.

One of the amazing things about Apple Pay is how differently they handle transaction meta data and information with seemingly AmEx being the best.

For Google Wallet they don't have the cooperation of the banks directly and they create a Super Debit Card, a virtualized debit card which is linked by ACH payments to your banks or by credit card. I have heard that there is a 2.9% fee to use your credit card with Google Wallet with a 30 cents minimum. I can't confirm this. If you use ACH payments, Google Wallet is free.

Google as a data company, has to monetize the purchase data it extracts from a users purchase using Google Wallet. I have seen reports that they may lose money on each purchase.

And for foreign transactions, they might not allow the use of purchase data mined by Google to be used. So how does Google make money.

Google has already killed the Google Wallet API and Apple Pay's API for Apps is definitely one of its strength's. I love using Apple Pay in Apps, it is so convenient and frictionless. I can accept that a swipe and a tap is about the same convenience, though Apple Pay is much more secure. But not having to enter your credit card data into an App is a huge convenience with Apple Pay.

 

[coolfactor]

Why so slow, even in the UK? The rest of the world, especially smaller countries, probably can forget about Pay for any foreseeable future

Canada has already implemented chip-and-pin and contactless payments on a broader scale (per capita) than the US, so we're ready for Pay. Do we have it yet? No. Will we have in the next six months? Who knows. Apple still hasn't rolled out iTunes Radio here and it's been more than a year.

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I'd love Apple Pay to come to the UK, but I know it won't work with my bank and nowhere I actually go to buy things will support it.

I'm not suddenly going to change to having a McDonald's everyday just so I can pay with my phone.

Name three places that you would shop from that won't ever support Pay. I'm curious.

 

[peterh988]

My experience in August was quite different. I traveled a lot (not in London at all) and no-one refused my swipe card. Some were a bit puzzled but it was accepted even in small towns.

I'll be a lot happier when we get chip cards though !

I understand the machines default to a swipe if the card chip is broken, (as mine was a few weeks ago, and I had to 'swipe and sign', how quaint!) so the technology exists to relieve Americans of their money, we just never use it ourselves

I wonder if I could insist on a 'swipe and sign' transaction if chip and pin was fully functional?

 

[lolkthxbai]

So what data are we talking about? Didn't Tim Cook explicitely state that Apple Pay works because Apple doesn't collect data about its customers?

Let's have a look to what Apple has to say:



So what data collection are we talking about?

I hate it when people say stuff regarding data mining without making it explicit what they are talking about. This is the reason why 99% of the global population thinks Google and Apple sell your data. Making people aware of privacy and technology starts with accurate and informed reporting.

I think either they know not of what they speak of or they could be talking about the credit card data that the user inputs into the phone at the time the card is loaded and the push notifications you receive for ANY purchase made using that card, whether it was with Apple Pay or not.

However, I assumed that what apple meant about not collecting data is that they don't store that information on their side, the credit card info stays on the device secure element and push notifications are managed by the bank's servers. Apple doesn't see what you pay for, from where or how much.

 

[mdelvecchio]

meh not excited anymore. Was excited when they announced it but they've left it too long.

it's not supposed to excite you. it's supposed to be useful when you use it.

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Why so slow, even in the UK? The rest of the world, especially smaller countries, probably can forget about Pay for any foreseeable future

what? it was just announced and rolled out in the US, banks here arent even finished getting on board.

massive financial rollouts take time.

 

[cambookpro]

Canada has already implemented chip-and-pin and contactless payments on a broader scale (per capita) than the US, so we're ready for Pay. Do we have it yet? No. Will we have in the next six months? Who knows. Apple still hasn't rolled out iTunes Radio here and it's been more than a year.

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Name three places that you would shop from that won't ever support Pay. I'm curious.

I don't really buy things that frequently out and about as grocery shopping is done on Ocado, but the three places I'd buy things from most often are Costa, Waitrose and probably WHSmith or Staples. It's not that they'd never support Apple Pay, but from the US rollout it seems still only a minority of shops accept it. I doubt smaller supermarkets and local shops would accept it straight away, if ever.

I'm not sure about medium-sized shops like Waitrose, but when I was in there last week I was given an iPhone 5c to use with Quick Check. It was quite good. I presume there are plans to launch an app so you can scan your shopping on your phone as you shop. Hopefully this means that they are at least considering new technologies like Apple Pay.

 

[Zxxv]

it's not supposed to excite you. it's supposed to be useful when you use it.

well aren't you the life and soul of the party

 

[ptb42]

The UK, along with over 80 countries use the chip and PIN system. I was just there in November, and outside of the tourist parts like London, American credit cards with the bit of VHS tape glued to the back are considered pretty old fashioned. Many shops won't even take them.

My experience in August was quite different. I traveled a lot (not in London at all) and no-one refused my swipe card. Some were a bit puzzled but it was accepted even in small towns.

I'll be a lot happier when we get chip cards though !

My wife and I were in several European countries last summer, and didn't have any problem. But, I took the time to call my bank(s) before we left the US, and asked them to issue us chip'ed cards. Wells Fargo, Citibank, and Chase all were happy to send them to us. Almost all of the banks are already issuing replacement cards with chips, and you would likely get one before the end of 2015, anyway.

Most cards issued by US banks are "Chip and Signature". Some are putting PINs on them, but specifying that the PIN has second priority for authentication. Unless you use it at a point-of-sale terminal that doesn't have any provision to accept it, you'll be asked for a signature.

 

[Bl0ckHe1d]

So you've just named pretty much every paper apart from the Morning Star and the Socialist Worker. So which one do you read?

Forgotten the Daily Sport, how could you just how could you...?!!

 

[ZCT]

My experience in August was quite different. I traveled a lot (not in London at all) and no-one refused my swipe card. Some were a bit puzzled but it was accepted even in small towns.

I'll be a lot happier when we get chip cards though !

I think there's some law to protect disabled people who can't enter a PIN or something, so a card with a chip in (chip and signature) card will mostly work in the UK.

But I got enough funny looks using a chip and signature card, so I never tried using one of my many non-chip cards.

In any case, it's sad that other countries have had chip and PIN for a decade and we still don't. Especially as the chip would vastly cut down on fraud, and scandals like the Target hack.

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My wife and I were in several European countries last summer, and didn't have any problem. But, I took the time to call my bank(s) before we left the US, and asked them to issue us chip'ed cards. Wells Fargo, Citibank, and Chase all were happy to send them to us. Almost all of the banks are already issuing replacement cards with chips, and you would likely get one before the end of 2015, anyway.

Most cards issued by US banks are "Chip and Signature". Some are putting PINs on them, but specifying that the PIN has second priority for authentication. Unless you use it at a point-of-sale terminal that doesn't have any provision to accept it, you'll be asked for a signature.

That's great, but we are ten year late to the party. The UK has had chip and PIN since 2004!

Chip and Signature is a lazy cop out. And it is annoying because many stores take the time to compare the signature on the back of the card, with what you just signed. It's a waste of time. Why can't we just have a chip and PIN like the 84 other countries that have it, and do transactions like the rest of the world?

For that matter, why are we still using imperial measurements...

 

[scottish]

I don't really buy things that frequently out and about as grocery shopping is done on Ocado, but the three places I'd buy things from most often are Costa, Waitrose and probably WHSmith or Staples. It's not that they'd never support Apple Pay, but from the US rollout it seems still only a minority of shops accept it. I doubt smaller supermarkets and local shops would accept it straight away, if ever.

I'm not sure about medium-sized shops like Waitrose, but when I was in there last week I was given an iPhone 5c to use with Quick Check. It was quite good. I presume there are plans to launch an app so you can scan your shopping on your phone as you shop. Hopefully this means that they are at least considering new technologies like Apple Pay.

Don't know about Costa, WHSmith and Staples but Waitrose supports Contactless payments ergo Apple Pay should work there.

Interesting they are using iPhones for Quick Check, my local store just introduced this using the normal handheld scanners.

 

[tmiw]

Chip and Signature is a lazy cop out. And it is annoying because many stores take the time to compare the signature on the back of the card, with what you just signed. It's a waste of time. Why can't we just have a chip and PIN like the 84 other countries that have it, and do transactions like the rest of the world?

FWIW Latin America and Asia mostly use chip and signature, so the US aren't the only ones.

 

[Tech198]

I'll go kicking and screaming before Apple tells this little black duck what to do

 

[Nevaborn]

Cant wait for this to take off really as I can do away with cards. Though that could be 10 years. NFC and contactless payment in the UK is very rare, my latest card has a wireless chip but the few times I have tried using it the thing has not worked properly.

Apple Pay has great potential, but unless more companies adopt it then it doesn't matter if banks get on board.

I also agree the data gathering comment needs clarifying as Apple made it very clear when pitching Apple Pay that everything is locally encrypted and Apple does not gather your information and even the clerk serving you can't see anything. This is either poor reporting, poor wording by banks or Apple has questions to answer.

 

[kdarling]

So what data are we talking about? Didn't Tim Cook explicitely state that Apple Pay works because Apple doesn't collect data about its customers?

Apple only says they don't collect the info themselves. This leaves open the possibility that they demand details from the banks in order to make sure they're paying Apple the correct fees.

That said, I think it's more general:

I understand banks by nature, are conservative in their approach, but what exactly are they talking about? Perhaps they are not happy about the lack of mineable data the Apple solution yields?

No, the banks are very happy about the fact that... unlike some competing Wallets... Apple lets all the usual info flow through to them. They not only can sell this info as anonymous aggregate data, but also of course use it to raise or lower our personal credit ratings.

However, Apple also collects some anonymous data, which perhaps the banks might object to, for either privacy, intel, or competing info reasons.

(For contactless purchases, Apple collects location, and time of purchase. I think they could use this to provide a map of Apple Pay compatible merchants. For in-app payments, Apple collects app, merchant, amount, time info.)

For Google Wallet they don't have the cooperation of the banks directly and they create a Super Debit Card, a virtualized debit card which is linked by ACH payments to your banks or by credit card. I have heard that there is a 2.9% fee to use your credit card with Google Wallet with a 30 cents minimum. I can't confirm this. If you use ACH payments, Google Wallet is free.

Google Wallet does not charge a fee for purchases, or even for sending money direct from your bank account.

The fee you mentioned applies only if you want to use GW to send cash to someone, while using your credit card as payment, because there's obviously a payment risk involved.

Google has already killed the Google Wallet API and Apple Pay's API for Apps is definitely one of its strength's.

No, Google has not killed the Wallet API. Or in-app purchases, Play Store purchases, Market Store or instant physical product purchase.

The only payment product they're stopping soon is one that provides for buying digital (non-physical) goods from desktop or mobile web apps. E.g. forum subscriptions?

The stuff about "scanning" people's cards isn't scaremongering - it does happen. I have only one card with this "feature" and it never leaves home (use it for online purchases only).

Older RFID cards are susceptible.

However, when talking about EMV contactless, it's scaremongering, because it's mostly theoretical, with very few practical proven examples.