Apple Introduces Lightning Cable MFi Specifications for Headphones

[HarryAinslie]

How do you think they'd incorporate the charge and listen at the same time?

I'm guessing they'd have to release an adapter of some sort.

I watch some tv shows on my iPhone whilst it's on charge when i'm working away on the road.

 

[Leonard1818]

Who honestly saw this coming?

I did. 3.5MM is old (but works). I figured Apple would do it on their own at some point. As soon as I heard they were buying Beats, I knew they'd do it with the Beats headphones.

Just hope I can charge and listen at the same time.

 

[zhenya]

While charging your noise-cancelling headphones from the Lightning port is a great concept, I think we are missing the real point... The Lightning port has the possibility to send high resolution, digital audio in multiple channels to a set of headphones.

Right now these devices are limited to analog, stereo inputs. But what if you could send five, 24bit, 96k digital audio streams to a set of headphones, and configure them right on the phone. Completely noise free, surround sound with a dedicated bass channel anyone?

Which is nothing that can't be easily done in the phone itself. And frankly, what is the point of 'surround sound' in headphones? You want to hear surround sound? Find some binaural recordings. Anything synthesized? No thanks.

I have to think that Apple has something else in mind here that isn't being thought of if this rumor has any truth to it at all. Headphones are just a pair of speakers which ultimately MUST be driven by an analog signal, so it really doesn't matter whether the digital to analog conversion is done in the phone or in the headphones. The latter seems like it's complicating the situation for no reason of value.

 

[milo]

"Lossless" is meaningless when it comes to headphones, it's like years ago when headphones said "digital ready!" on the box.

And as some people have pointed out already, iPods already have 48k lossless playback. I guess having the DAC in the headphones may be appealing to some people but I'd much rather see the DAC on the devices get improved.

 

[JAT]

I don't think anyone has correctly identified the issue here, yet. My view (which could be wrong)....

30-pin:
Apple was almost the only mfgr to make mp3 players with digital output. With the digital output via the 30-pin connector, several 3rd parties made audio devices with their own DACs, touting whatever quality they wanted to say. For example: A small but adamant group uses a headphone amp with quality headphones for music, even at home. This group would like portable, too, and Apple became the goto supplier, along with some nice portable amps.

Lightning:
The Lightning system has DRM. That's right. MFi for Lightning basically means you have licensed the decoding of the DRM in order to fully use the system. (people aren't too happy about the price, btw) It appears that Apple has not really put out MFi specs for audio before. I thought they had, but it doesn't seem like it, since there is little in the industry. The Yamaha Aventage example above must be using the standard USB compatibility of Lightning. Same with an amp like the Sony PHA-1, which is about the only Lightning-compatible amp I could find. Don't know why more haven't gone this route, it seems like a reasonable alternative. Apple actually provided an external DAC before today, right in the Lightning-to-30-pin adapter, so that was their solution before, that adapter could connect to both digital and analog 3rd party audio solutions. And now, here the specs are for actual Lightning compatibility.

Conclusion:
Now 3rd parties can make themselves a headphone amp with direct digital connection instead of relying on the conversion to USB, which nobody seems to have tried. This should give them the ability to use power from the phone's battery, as others have mentioned. This is why it is called a spec "for headphones", as the DAC and whatever else can just be put into headphones themselves.

 

[APlotdevice]

Standard pin is analog so quality would improve a lot. Unfortunately that's proprietary, most likely headphones would be more expensive and you won't be able to charge your device while listening to music.

Why not making it wireless instead? Can't you transmit a decent amount of data enough for playback through Bluetooth?

Not without noticeable compression, no.

 

[milo]

Actually, the only reason why it's the number one OS is because it's cheap.

Cheap is just one reason. I use macs and iPad but I'm very happy with my android phone. It doesn't hurt that I was able to get a screen bigger than any iPhone.

 

[MH01]

Let's use Beat Studio headphones as an example. The 3.5mm cable is separate from the headphone even right now. Something like this would just have to ship with 2 different cables and it would support both the Lightning and 3.5mm jack with no adapters necessary.

ummm and the DAC?

----------

I don't think anyone has correctly identified the issue here, yet. My view (which could be wrong)....

30-pin:
Apple was almost the only mfgr to make mp3 players with digital output. With the digital output via the 30-pin connector, several 3rd parties made audio devices with their own DACs, touting whatever quality they wanted to say. For example: A small but adamant group uses a headphone amp with quality headphones for music, even at home. This group would like portable, too, and Apple became the goto supplier, along with some nice portable amps.

Lightning:
The Lightning system has DRM. That's right. MFi for Lightning basically means you have licensed the decoding of the DRM in order to fully use the system. (people aren't too happy about the price, btw) It appears that Apple has not really put out MFi specs for audio before. I thought they had, but it doesn't seem like it, since there is little in the industry. The Yamaha Aventage example above must be using the standard USB compatibility of Lightning. Same with an amp like the Sony PHA-1, which is about the only Lightning-compatible amp I could find. Don't know why more haven't gone this route, it seems like a reasonable alternative. Apple actually provided an external DAC before today, right in the Lightning-to-30-pin adapter, so that was their solution before, that adapter could connect to both digital and analog 3rd party audio solutions. And now, here the specs are for actual Lightning compatibility.

Conclusion:
Now 3rd parties can make themselves a headphone amp with direct digital connection instead of relying on the conversion to USB, which nobody seems to have tried. This should give them the ability to use power from the phone's battery, as others have mentioned. This is why it is called a spec "for headphones", as the DAC and whatever else can just be put into headphones themselves.

I see your point. Though anyone who is serious about music is not going to want a DAC in the headphones. If you spend a large amount of money on quality headphones, you want the ability to pair it with any DAC/AMP you want, the last thing you want is for the headphone to come with a DAC locked in. Not to mention, it will add bulk to the headphones.

 

[prowlmedia]

There is already an optical audio combo port on the macbook pros. I wonder why they just don't use that standard already in place.

No controls. Requires a powered digital interface the other end.. but so would this.


They'll keep the audio jack too though. Bet my house on it.

 

[Quad5Ny]

This is stupid the iPhone, iPod and iPad line already have awesome DAC/OPAMP combos. -- http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm, http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/ipod-touch-5g/audio-quality.htm

The only real reason this would be useful is for 200+ ohm headphones in which Apple provided power (5v?) through the lightning connector to power a new type of headphones that have a onboard AMP.


16bit/44.1khz is more than enough, there was a reason it was chosen for the CD standard:

A. 16-bits provides 100db of dynamic range (115db if dithered). Do you really need 24bit which provides 150db of dynamic range which is enough to thoroughly destroy your hearing (every 3db is twice as loud BTW)? Not only that but the noise floor in a average room and recording will almost NEVER allow for the full dynamic range anyway (heck me just breathing with a pair of sealed headphones on sound like its at least 25-30db).

B. Human hearing is usually quoted as 20-20,000hz (although is closer to 30-18,000hz in non lab situations)... so why would you need more than 22,050hz (44,100 / 2)?

 

[jmgregory1]

That, or:

View attachment 474981

View attachment 474982

Wow, let's freak out.

I'm pretty sure Apple isn't talking about using a second Lightning port for headphone use - they're talking using the same port now being used for power and connectivity. I'm also indifferent about it as I just do not use wired headsets at all any more, but then I'm not a 20-something year old listening to music all the time. I think Apple should be pushing to eliminate wires altogether for charging, syncing and headphones.

 

[Maxerl]

I'd rather see a new wireless hi-def audio standard which is backwards compatible with Bluetooth then be tied to cables. It's 2014 for heaven's sake. I also want week long battery life in wireless headsets. Why put more effort in being tied to cables?

aptX not enough for you?

I´m also surprised by the negativity here. As someone said, Apple is just opening up new possible uses for their existing lightning port!

 

[Freyqq]

I think a big part of the idea is that the headphones can use power from the device for an external amplifier. This has always been a drawback for headphones, a lack of power. I have used in ear Shure headphones for this reason instead of headphones. All of that having been said, I think people wearing these large headphones out and about is kind of silly looking, so I will likely stay to the high quality in ear products, but for use at home, I enjoy a good set of sennheisers. Never tried Beats... yet.

This new spec could be very useful for noise cancelling headphones. They could be powered by the phone instead of batteries, and all the electronics to process the noise cancelling feature can be handled by the phone itself. This would result in cheaper active noise cancelling headphones, as all the hard work is being done by the phone. Other than this usage case, I don't see how this would be appealing to most users.

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

People said that before back in the 20th century, that television would kill radio. It never happened. Music will always have its place.

Have you seen the rating numbers for radio?

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Yeah well I'd like to use my headphones for general use. Not just for iPhone, iPad or iPods. I also use it for the laptop, some portable consoles and many more. So 3.5mm standard is important to me. Oh and I don't want another tiny, easy-to-lose frickin' adapter to carry.

But soon Apple devices will come with proprietary audio port just like what Nokia, SonyEricsson, Siemens did with their phones back in the 90s. Different headset for different brands, make sure you don't mismatch those.. Ughh

1) As said headphone makers will likely supply or sell lightning to all sizes of phone connectors. Its not different that using 3.5mm portable headphones w/ an audio receiver w/ full 1/4 jack.

2) 3.5mm isn't disappearing anywhere soon. You are way overreacting. But a company like Apple does want to start transitioning to digital and by using lightning it allows for a slim design vs using coax.

3) Also as I previously noted all Macs today, including laptops, come with Lightning ports.

4) Also Apple has said it's keeping Beats separate and will support Windows and Android. Therefore it's in Apple's interest not to strangle its subsidiary with a new connector that many customers can't use.

I have my money where my mouth is -- I have a pair of Shure E535s. You are way overreacting here.

 

[MrXiro]

Its really hard to watch videos when traveling or working out or doing real work. Music isn't going anywhere.

You responded to the wrong person... I only put a joke response (it's the title of a old song) to someone who I think was joking about video replacing music in the first place.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

That's news to me.

I didn't realise that Macs had lighting ports. Which model are you referring to? To my knowledge, you couldn't plug a pair of headphones with lighting connector directly into a Mac. You would need an adapter of some sort, maybe lighting (female) to USB (male) or lightning (female) to Thunderbolt (male).

Ah, I stand corrected. I was thinking of Thunderbolt. However, easy enough for Apple to add lighning if it wants this type of audio plug to become a standard over all devices.

 

[jcshas]

No thank you

This is beneficial solely for Apple, not consumers. I prefer headphones that are compatibale across all my devices.

 

[JAT]

ummm and the DAC?

----------



I see your point. Though anyone who is serious about music is not going to want a DAC in the headphones. If you spend a large amount of money on quality headphones, you want the ability to pair it with any DAC/AMP you want, the last thing you want is for the headphone to come with a DAC locked in. Not to mention, it will add bulk to the headphones.

The DAC could be in the cable, esp with removable cables as suggested. It wouldn't add much bulk to a cable that already has a mic. But I completely agree that the headphone-audiophile group will want a "real" DAC/amp solution. But this spec seems like it could benefit them, also, if I'm understanding correctly that power can now go both ways so either the phone can support the DAC or vice versa. Or at least one way (DAC/amp can charge phone), current solutions don't do that, either. And they do with the 30-pin.

----------

Have you seen the rating numbers for radio?

Have you added Spotify numbers into your assumption?

 

[flux73]

Welcome to the future, where you have to buy new headphones if you switch to Android

Or you could complain about Android device manufacturers not licensing Lightning connectors for usage in their devices.

In an Apple device, I don't see this being the ONLY way to hook up headphones. Not for a very long time, if ever. Just like AirPlay speakers don't use Airplay exclusively. If there aren't enough advantages in a headphone with MFi, then simply don't get one.

Gotta love all the grumbling as if people are being forced to do something.

 

[kelub]

I´m also surprised by the negativity here. As someone said, Apple is just opening up new possible uses for their existing lightning port!

Man, THIS. I'm tempted to print this entire thread and carry it with me so anytime I hear some idiot toss the "Apple fans just lap up anything Apple does" trope out I can force them to read the ridiculousness that's going on here.

Apple: "Here's a new feature option we're considering!"
Fan site forum: "ZOMG APPLE IS GOING TO KILL OFF OUR FAVORITE PORT EVER AND FORCE US ALL INTO LIGHTNING CAMPS WHERE WE'RE ALL REQUIRED TO USE LIGHTNING CABLES FOR EVERY ASPECT OF OUR LIVES!"

Calm down.

- The 3.5mm jack will, at some point, be phased out, by everyone. Apple has a reputation of phasing out ports/jacks, so yes they may lead the charge. Prepare yourselves for that apocalyptic day.

- This does not mean, however, that this is what this is. This is merely adding functionality and flexibility to an existing port. No one is taking your precious 3.5mm port away today. No one is telling you "muahaha you cannot listen to music and charge your device" while twisting the ends of their finely oiled mustache today. I bet -- maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but I bet -- that if/when that day comes, they'll have thought of that scenario and will have a plan for it.

- Apple's proven itself to be just a bit savvy when it comes to making products people want to use. I have a hard time foreseeing them making a move that forces the mainstream consumer to do anything more complex than their current usage patterns dictate.

- If anything, it's the opposite. Apple discontinues ports/options when there is clearly a smaller minority still using those options. Yeah, I use a blu-ray drive on my iMac. I picked up a USB one. I also understand that most people wouldn't need an optical drive anymore and that the few of us who do can either use older machines that still have them, or go pick up an external option. Seppuku was, for now, avoided.

- Even if this is "the beginning of the end" of the 3.5mm jack, so what? Again-- it's going to be phased out eventually. Again-- whatever course they take in that regard, it's going to be (for better or for worse) with the mainstream user in mind. So if, by the time they do finally phase the port out, you find it to be an egregious omission on their part, then you likely ARE in that minority crowd that was still using the floppy drive and the optical drive on your laptops way beyond the period where it was still necessary to do so. So you'll be upset simply because #CHANGE# and will tell all of us about how terrible a decision it is and how you're moving to Android. And then they'll do it 2 years later and it'll be a great idea.

- Finally, all of these posts about people going through 4 lightning cables. Seriously? Why does it seem like there are multiple posters that have all gone through *exactly* 4 cables? Weird.

Personally I think I have 8 lightning cables.
- 5 of them are from Apple.
- 3 of them are from licensed 3rd parties.
One of the 3rd party cables has frayed where the cable connects to the heads - the one in my wife's car, where it's constantly on the ground being stepped on & abused by the kids (and my wife - she's hard on her cables (and her phone).) I can literally see metal wire on both ends of the cable. And IT STILL WORKS.

All of the other ones have been wrapped up, pulled around, used at their maximum length, accidentally yanked on, kinked up, etc., without any issue. They all still work.

So either you guys are full of it, you're way harder on your cables than you are letting on, or you're buying exceptionally subpar quality cables.

The quality of the cable/port/connector is no worse than the 30 pin cables were. In fact I've had far more of those become damaged - both the cables and the devices - because of them being forced the wrong way, device being pulled on with a "locking" style cable attached, etc. No similar issues with lightning.

 

[Chaos123x]

very strange! Got my lightning cable since 2 years ago and still using it with no problems. Same with the iPad one, never had it replaced. Lighting cable was one of the best changes Apple did IMO.

That's not my experience with them at all, I've tried to be extra careful with my current cable but it too is failing. Seems the wire gets a short somewhere under the rubber. It will only works if the cable is turned a certain way. Tried using cheap 3rd party lighting cables from 5 and below but they didn't last two days. I just have the cable plugged in on my night stand and use it to charge the iphone when I sleep, so not really putting it under any stress. In my opinion the lighting cables are garbage.

 

[jmuntingh]

Yawn. Apple is behind the times again. Music is played out. Apple really needs to shift its focus to the medium of the 21st century, video.

Interesting. I am listening to music all day when I am working. You must be watching videos.

 

[KUguardgrl13]

You could also just not buy the new iPhone. I can't think of anything Apple could add in future iPhones that would make me want one enough to ditch my iPhone 5.

If Verizon doesn't start charging me less when my contract expires in January, then it's worth considering upgrading. Also my 5 is in pretty good condition, but it won't last forever.

 

[Mockenrue]

I´m also surprised by the negativity here. As someone said, Apple is just opening up new possible uses for their existing lightning port!

I'm always positive about new audio support, as long as they don't take away anything I can do now (ie. connect to my non-MFi DAC/amp over lightning via adapter). Not everyone will want a device with the one and only supported DAC.