Apple is terrible with built-in software, why not buy themselves out of a problem?

[RokkenRock]

I think you need to take this the other way. Just because it satisfies you means Apple's job is done? Do you speak for everybody else? Should Apple aim to please only a set amount of people? As a customer I understand why you shouldn't care what other customers think but to not understand where other people are coming from, well that's why you feel like I'm calling you a sheep.

Again, push notifications was something Apple championed in iOS5. I know someone above said it's google's fault, well i'm not a google android phone customer am i? The fact of the matter is this problem HAS A SOLUTION. We've all pointed to it above. All it takes is Apple to make a simple choice to implement it or not and offer it as a feature.

Where you're truly wrong is your impression that Apple doesn't force you to use them. They do, They do by the very fact you can't change your default mail app and have all your other apps use it. They force you to use their own apps if you want any compatibility what-so-ever.

I'm not the one who talks like he's representing everyone. There's a reason why they have an App Store and a reason why it is thriving. If you don't like them, find something that you do. How hard is it? No, they can't simply buy themselves out of a "problem". If they do they would have to buy everyone of the apps on the store. But at the end you can't everything so that everyone is happy.

I don't know what else to talk about this topic because the logic behind it is ridiculous. It's not like Google or Microsoft have oh so amazing built-in apps, impossibly amazing, that they satisfy everyone's need and make everyone happy.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

An assumption that more people would not want to reroute their private mail through another company would appear to be a more rational one than one where more people would opt for that just for push notifications. I mean if more people would opt for that then there would be way way more people using apps like Mailbox which do exactly that. And while there are a lot of people using apps like that, but far it's not even close to being a majority of any kind.

So Apple should pay and provide it for free to their users? I'm sure that's a sound business practice. And what if Google doesn't want to sell it to apple due to competitiveness on their part? If Apple hates Google, then surely Google can hate Apple just as much if not more, right?

I think what you are discounting here is the lack of simplicity of it. It's not as simple as you seem to think it is or should be or might be.

i don't think i'm discounting the simiplicity of it although it is really rather simplistic in its solution. what i'm suggesting is that apple took a step backwards and refused to acknowledge a problem, a problem that was a feature they sold to us as consumers years ago that no longer exists. a problem that they can fix and maybe are fixing but haven't fixed yet.

----------

I'm not the one who talks like he's representing everyone. There's a reason why they have an App Store and a reason why it is thriving. If you don't like them, find something that you do. How hard is it? No, they can't simply buy themselves out of a "problem". If they do they would have to buy everyone of the apps on the store. But at the end you can't everything so that everyone is happy.

I don't know what else to talk about this topic because the logic behind it is ridiculous. It's not like Google or Microsoft have oh so amazing built-in apps, impossibly amazing, that they satisfy everyone's need and make everyone happy.

i think the logic that i can't or shouldn't hold apple to a higher standard is ridiculous. another logic that's ridiculous is people's failure to comprehend how useless it is to use an app from the app store to replace calendars/mail due to the integrative nature of apple's core apps to every other app and/or feature like notification system.

what's furthermore, most ridiculous is this concept that because it's good enough for you, nobody has the right to complain and if it's good enough for you, it doesn't matter if apple takes a feature set away. and because we rely on a MAJOR third party service, we should just blame big bad google instead of asking apple to make a decision to give us a feature we've come to depend on.

this is like apple's refusal to renew google map's contract and gave us apple maps instead. when will you realize that there are certain business decisions that aren't consumer-first at all.

 

[dcp10]

i don't think i'm discounting the simiplicity of it although it is really rather simplistic in its solution. what i'm suggesting is that apple took a step backwards and refused to acknowledge a problem, a problem that was a feature they sold to us as consumers years ago that no longer exists. a problem that they can fix and maybe are fixing but haven't fixed yet.

----------

i think the logic that i can't or shouldn't hold apple to a higher standard is ridiculous. another logic that's ridiculous is people's failure to comprehend how useless it is to use an app from the app store to replace calendars/mail due to the integrative nature of apple's core apps to every other app and/or feature like notification system.

what's furthermore, most ridiculous is this concept that because it's good enough for you, nobody has the right to complain and if it's good enough for you, it doesn't matter if apple takes a feature set away. and because we rely on a MAJOR third party service, we should just blame big bad google instead of asking apple to make a decision to give us a feature we've come to depend on.

this is like apple's refusal to renew google map's contract and gave us apple maps instead. when will you realize that there are certain business decisions that aren't consumer-first at all.

Might it be possible that an iPhone is not the best choice for you? Seriously, this conversion has reached its natural conclusion, you're unhappy with the built in productivity apps, Apple has taken this course which only they can explain, and there has been plenty of discussion on the pros and cons of the alternatives. What else is there left to say?

 

[C DM]

i don't think i'm discounting the simiplicity of it although it is really rather simplistic in its solution. what i'm suggesting is that apple took a step backwards and refused to acknowledge a problem, a problem that was a feature they sold to us as consumers years ago that no longer exists. a problem that they can fix and maybe are fixing but haven't fixed yet.

It isn't actually a problem that they can fix while providing what their mail client is supposed to provide. It's a problem they can potentially work around by providing a whole different service where they would have to provide a while mail service that users would route their mail through, but that would be separate and different from the mail client that they provide.

 

[SanjeevRana]

You just assumed this right? Again, championing push notifications, I just need you to admit it's a step back. BTW, it's not that Google doesn't do any push notifications, they offer it to their business customers. So realistically, Apple also could've signed a contract and had it available to iphone users. but they don't.

it's because they hate google and in turn hurt their consumers.

I little reading before writing would have helped a lot of people in this conversation ...

Google's Sync was essentially a rebranded Microsoft Activesync Exchange protocol. This was LICENSED (and loads of money involved) by Google from MS.

They removed this license from all free accounts and are paying to use it only for the business accounts, hence reducing the payout to MS in turn... this was a business decision by Google. How can you blame Apple for this is beyond me

There is nothing Apple can license with Google to enable this because the free accounts DO NOT have this functionality left anymore. As for the business accounts they can be setup as Exchange Accounts under Mail App for instant push normally. Nothing new required there.

So if you want your GMAIL account to push on iPhone native Mail App, upgrade your Gmail account from free to business and ENJOY.

For reading pleasure :- http://www.zdnet.com/google-drops-exchange-activesync-support-for-free-email-accounts-7000008836/

 

[FrozenDarkness]

so let me take a couple step back and respond to you guys in kind. The idea that Apple can't work with google and fix this problem is beyond me. I'm not blaming Apple for the problem, I'm blaming Apple for not finding a solution. Like you said, you can sign up for a business account through Google and get exchange. Which means, there is a POSSIBILITY of Apple working with Google on this. They don't have to, certainly not.

And to people who wonder why I'm sticking with Apple, it's precisely this reason. I hold Apple to a higher standard and they've hit it in the past. Just because they have something I'm against does not mean I'm going to run into other people's arms. It's you people who think that I should just sit pretty and be happy with what Apple feeds into my mouth astonishes me. I acknowledge shortcomings and complain about it on the internet! (ironic i know)

 

[SanjeevRana]

so let me take a couple step back and respond to you guys in kind. The idea that Apple can't work with google and fix this problem is beyond me. I'm not blaming Apple for the problem, I'm blaming Apple for not finding a solution. Like you said, you can sign up for a business account through Google and get exchange. Which means, there is a POSSIBILITY of Apple working with Google on this. They don't have to, certainly not.

And to people who wonder why I'm sticking with Apple, it's precisely this reason. I hold Apple to a higher standard and they've hit it in the past. Just because they have something I'm against does not mean I'm going to run into other people's arms. It's you people who think that I should just sit pretty and be happy with what Apple feeds into my mouth astonishes me. I acknowledge shortcomings and complain about it on the internet! (ironic i know)

Doesnt look like a step back

There is nothing to work on ... thats my whole post before yours ... Will Apple say ok we will pay you Million of $ which you in turn pay to MS and get this push working ... Doesnt make sense at all !

 

[Abazigal]

so let me take a couple step back and respond to you guys in kind. The idea that Apple can't work with google and fix this problem is beyond me. I'm not blaming Apple for the problem, I'm blaming Apple for not finding a solution. Like you said, you can sign up for a business account through Google and get exchange. Which means, there is a POSSIBILITY of Apple working with Google on this. They don't have to, certainly not.

We don't know what's going on during negotiations behind the scenes. For all we know, it could be another Google Maps scenario, where Google is demanding too much concessions to allow push for Gmail on IOS, such as greater access to consumers' user data, more than what Apple is willing to accommodate.

I am pretty sure many people though Apple arrogant for opting to release their own Mapping service (which was initially riddled with problems) instead of trying to license Google Maps. But now, we have a much improved Google Maps app, and Apple Maps is actually pretty reliable (for me at least), so we are actually better off now.

That said, I feel that it is precisely because these are the stock apps which many IOS users will try out first, that Apple cannot afford to bloat them with features that may make them harder to use. They need to be simple, functional and be able to get the job done. And in that aspect, they do work.

For example, I am using the mailbox app on my iPhone and iPad. It's better than the stock mail app - for me, but it actually took me a good 3-4 months to get used to it. Because it uses such an atypical way of managing your mail, this isn't something I feel Apple should "force" on all its users.

I do wish Apple would buy over fantastical and make it the default calendar app on IOS though, not least so we can get the calendar date widget on the app icon, and for system-level integration.

 

[Merode]

Coming from Android through Windows Phone, I'd say all aforementioned apps are great. Really.

 

[gglittle]

this is like apple's refusal to renew google map's contract and gave us apple maps instead. when will you realize that there are certain business decisions that aren't consumer-first at all.

Really? Not for me. Apples Maps, was one of the best things Apple has done. Google maps never did figure out where I lived for 8 years. If they used Google, I always got a call to tell service or delivery folk that I did not live the mile west that Google always tried to send them.

 

[atmc]

I actually like those Apple apps. In fact, I haven't tried to find alternatives, which means I like them.

Mail: works great
Callendar: actually like the new UI. Use it a lot.
Reminders: I use it only integrated with MS Exchange, and it does the job well. However, I have to admit that it doesn't have lots of features.
Safari: Very good, but I don't use Safari on Mac, which doesn't enable me to have all the benefits of iCloud.

As I said, I don't feel the need to have more features, because most of the times I use these apps with MS Exchange (except for Safari). But I also didn't have any problems using Gmail with Mail.

 

[thadoggfather]

It's not that it's terrible so much as not needed.

Maybe that's one in the same but

Whenever I restore my iOS 7 devices (a lot while switching from 7.0.4 to betas, back to an earlier beta, testing, etc.), I immediately throw these in a folder:
FaceTime, stocks, videos, GCenter, iTunes store, passbook, newstand, compass, reminders, voice memos, contacts, FaceTime, Calendar.

Not that I will never use certainly anyof them ever, but I don't need all that stuff taking up space on my home folder. And some I will never use.

 

[takeshi74]

I'm not blaming Apple for the problem, I'm blaming Apple for not finding a solution.

It would take both parties to reach a solution. Not sure why you think it's all up to Apple. Apple supports email standards. Their mail app supports push. Google's the one that has made the decision that impacts push. Your beef, as pointed out many times in this thread, is with Google. Apple can't magically turn Google's lack of support for push into push. The change has to happen on Google's side. You can't push a rope.

Like you said, you can sign up for a business account through Google and get exchange. Which means, there is a POSSIBILITY of Apple working with Google on this.

It doesn't indicate anything other than Google offers EAS support for their business products. They decided and clearly announced to drop support on the consumer end. One has no bearing on the other. Again, the ball isn't in Apple's court, it's in Google's.

And to people who wonder why I'm sticking with Apple, it's precisely this reason. I hold Apple to a higher standard and they've hit it in the past. Just because they have something I'm against does not mean I'm going to run into other people's arms. It's you people who think that I should just sit pretty and be happy with what Apple feeds into my mouth astonishes me. I acknowledge shortcomings and complain about it on the internet! (ironic i know)

If they're not meeting your standard then why are you sticking with them? What's the definition of insanity again? Use what works for you. I'm certainly not telling you to be happy with what Apple provides. You're the one that seems to be insistent on sticking with them.

it's baffling to me that they can still make the same built-in apps and try to sell it.

Shouldn't be baffling at all. People keep buying their products. Many of them are fine with their products. Then there are those that are unhappy with them and yet continue to buy their products. You're part of your own problem.

i don't believe you can speak for the 98%.

...and you can't either. The masses are obviously fine with the stock apps or at least willing enough to put up with them to keep buying into IOS. If it was truly unusable for the masses then the masses would be feeling in droves.

There are certainly many that aren't happy with the IOS apps you've mentioned. They're just not a significant enough majority to drive the changes.

I think you need to take this the other way. Just because it satisfies you means Apple's job is done? Do you speak for everybody else?

Your own arguments here work against you as well.

i think the logic that i can't or shouldn't hold apple to a higher standard is ridiculous.

It's not logic. It's an opinion. You can certainly hold Apple to whatever standard you want. However, it doesn't mean that they're going to comply with your arbitrary standard. Again, you should instead use solutions that meet your needs.

what's furthermore, most ridiculous is this concept that because it's good enough for you, nobody has the right to complain and if it's good enough for you, it doesn't matter if apple takes a feature set away.

The converse is just as ridiculous which is what your thread is all about. Just because it isn't good enough for you doesn't mean that it isn't good enough for everyone else. You can certainly criticize but don't assume that you represent the masses. The masses aren't even homogeneous but Apple can only make decisions based on aggregate demand.

 

[matttye]

Work fine for me - so much so that I've never felt the need to seek alternatives.

 

[pagemaster]

built-in mail app: terrible
built-in calendar app: weak
built-in reminder app: terrible
built-in browser: good

i find it odd that through so many iterations of iOS, these apps have essentially stayed the same in functionality whilst the competition has changed. Apple should just buy some of these companies like any.do or mailbox and integrate it into iOS. it's baffling to me that they can still make the same built-in apps and try to sell it.

the most hilarious thing is that these apps aren't even the easiest to use. the reminder app is terribly inefficient

I agree. Apple Maps will never be a hit. Google maps will always be better.

 

[Nevaborn]

I hate using 3rd party productivity apps that will never have full integration.

I use apple email for work and personal and it is fine.

Calendar is fine for work and personal

Reminders needs integrating in to Calendar.

The things you should be criticiaing is the limited nature of Pages and Numbers. Also how icloud needs to be more of a file storage option like Dropbox.

 

[acfusion29]

Apple's primary business isn't app development. Their primary business is hardware and operating systems. They bundle a few basic apps to get you started, but they were never intended to meet the needs of all users. That's why the App Store exists: so users can find apps that more directly meet their specific needs. As already stated, the only failure on Apple's part is not allowing 3rd party apps to be selected as defaults, for seamless integration with other functions.

yup.. maybe in iOS 8 we will have this option

not too optimistic about it though.

 

[sapadcy]

Apple is the first company has released AI based software with mobile devices. Some few mistaks they will recover soon.

We can not take Apple experience by using any other mobile devices.

 

[atmc]

For me, the only Apple app that is absolutely terrible and nearly unsable, is Maps. It is just so bad on searching for POI that its hard to describe it. I think 99% of the searches I make either doesn't produce any result or give me the wrong spot.

I can imagine that in major cities in the US or even in some European countries it works well, but in my country, even in major cities, the search doesn't work at all. The only thing I like about it is the traffic information, which is so much better than Google Maps information. It is actually very accurate, and I use it only for this.

Regarding to other apps, like I said before, I have no problems with them.

 

[TC03]

My opinion is the opposite of this thread's narrative. I love iOS because the default apps are great, even Calendar in iOS 7. They are designed to do the most basic things intuitively. Especially Mail is an app which I consider to be a prime example of a good compromise between intuitiveness, functionality and efficiency. I would go so far and say it's the best mobile app out there on all ecosystems.

 

[blasto2236]

if i use a third party mail app, i can't send e-mails from that app without also running the apple mail app.

Umm, what? I use Mailbox on both my iPhone and iPad (and will for OS X when it comes) and the Apple Mail app has never opened once.

 

[VTECaddict]

so let me take a couple step back and respond to you guys in kind. The idea that Apple can't work with google and fix this problem is beyond me. I'm not blaming Apple for the problem, I'm blaming Apple for not finding a solution. Like you said, you can sign up for a business account through Google and get exchange. Which means, there is a POSSIBILITY of Apple working with Google on this. They don't have to, certainly not.

And to people who wonder why I'm sticking with Apple, it's precisely this reason. I hold Apple to a higher standard and they've hit it in the past. Just because they have something I'm against does not mean I'm going to run into other people's arms. It's you people who think that I should just sit pretty and be happy with what Apple feeds into my mouth astonishes me. I acknowledge shortcomings and complain about it on the internet! (ironic i know)

It 100% lies in Google's court. Apple's job with the Mail app is to support email standards. It does that. Google withdrew Exchange ActiveSync from free accounts, and with that went push. Mail has the capability to support push. Apple never promised push capability on all email services. Push functionality is entirely dependent on the email provider. If the provider allows push, then Mail will push.

Let's give you an analogy. Let's say you only get over the air HDTV via antenna (no cable). Now, ABC decides to stop broadcasting OTA for free and become a paid cable channel only. Suddenly, your LG TV is unable to show ABC content because you don't have cable. Who's fault is it that you can't view ABC anymore? The broadcast TV network or LG? Or you, because you won't pay for cable?

What you're asking for is like asking LG in this scenario to somehow pay for access to ABC, broadcast it over the air for free, and show it on your LG TV anyway, without you having to pay anything extra.

It's not LG's problem that you can't watch ABC. Just like it's not Apple's problem that your free Gmail account doesn't support push. Nor is it their responsibility to pay to have a workaround just to provide you with push.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

It 100% lies in Google's court. Apple's job with the Mail app is to support email standards. It does that. Google withdrew Exchange ActiveSync from free accounts, and with that went push. Mail has the capability to support push. Apple never promised push capability on all email services. Push functionality is entirely dependent on the email provider. If the provider allows push, then Mail will push.

Let's give you an analogy. Let's say you only get over the air HDTV via antenna (no cable). Now, ABC decides to stop broadcasting OTA for free and become a paid cable channel only. Suddenly, your LG TV is unable to show ABC content because you don't have cable. Who's fault is it that you can't view ABC anymore? The broadcast TV network or LG? Or you, because you won't pay for cable?

What you're asking for is like asking LG in this scenario to somehow pay for access to ABC, broadcast it over the air for free, and show it on your LG TV anyway, without you having to pay anything extra.

It's not LG's problem that you can't watch ABC. Just like it's not Apple's problem that your free Gmail account doesn't support push. Nor is it their responsibility to pay to have a workaround just to provide you with push.

let's just admit your analogy is horrendous because in your case, LG better pay ABC because the tv will sell horrendously if that's not the case. LG would bake the price into the price of the TV and this is ONLY assuming that LG is apparently singled out.

----------

Umm, what? I use Mailbox on both my iPhone and iPad (and will for OS X when it comes) and the Apple Mail app has never opened once.

try clicking any mail:to link from within safari.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

It would take both parties to reach a solution. Not sure why you think it's all up to Apple. Apple supports email standards. Their mail app supports push. Google's the one that has made the decision that impacts push. Your beef, as pointed out many times in this thread, is with Google. Apple can't magically turn Google's lack of support for push into push. The change has to happen on Google's side. You can't push a rope.

IT WOULD TAKE BOTH PARTIES TO FIND A SOLUTION! i never admitted otherwise. your problem is this sentence "Apple supports email standards" gmail is e-mail and by definition does not support the e-mail standard that the MASS majority of the world uses. GMail recently surpassed Hotmail. pretty shocking. Actually your problem is i suggested Apple negotiate with Google to figure this out which seems to assume that there would be some monetary compensation as if that's just horrenodus. FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT APPLE! DON'T SIT DOWN AND TAKE IT FOR YOUR CUSTOMERS!

It doesn't indicate anything other than Google offers EAS support for their business products. They decided and clearly announced to drop support on the consumer end. One has no bearing on the other. Again, the ball isn't in Apple's court, it's in Google's.

How is it in google's court again? What basketball game are we even playing? This is a VERY VERY simple equation. When Apple didn't have a maps app? They worked with google to get google maps integrated. When Apple needed a search engine for Siri? They worked with Microsoft to get Bing integrated. If Apple needed passport? They'll work with businesses to get that implemented. See a pattern? Apple picks and chooses partners to give us an experience. I hope you can see where I'm going.

If they're not meeting your standard then why are you sticking with them? What's the definition of insanity again? Use what works for you. I'm certainly not telling you to be happy with what Apple provides. You're the one that seems to be insistent on sticking with them.

Ah, I love the apple defense force coming out of you. Definition of insanity isn't anything you've stated actually. I can tell you personally that no product is perfect. I suppose being honest with myself is the only crime.

I really don't have time to respond to the rest of your post. I'm merely suggesting a solution to a problem that, perhaps only I face, although I doubt it. THey are selling millions of phones, they ost certainly don't have to appease me. But the very thought that what I'm suggesting is outrageous is BAFFLING to me since they've done it historically to get functionality we need to us. I'm just not blind to see it.

But don't let me stop you. Feel free to pick my argument apart with your Apple goggles. God knows it's hard to see anything else through the lenses.

 

[VulchR]

I agree. Apple Maps will never be a hit. Google maps will always be better.

For me, the only Apple app that is absolutely terrible and nearly unsable, is Maps....

I feel the same: Apple's Maps still sucks - the other stock Apple apps are OK IMO. The irony is that I sense that Apple did try to but themselves out of an sticky situation by purchasing geographic information on POI's, but they chose the wrong companies and got poor information as a result.