Apple Issues Warning on iPhone Unlocking

[shakastange]

Simple, neither one played by the rules, one had a great advantage to others, the other is self serving.

The point was .... Not everyone that refuses to play by the rules ends up a herro or on top. You never know the twists and turns of fate.

So you're saying if I decide to jay walk tomorrow, I may end up joining the mafioso or better yet turn into Batman.

My point is, the people I mentioned had just cause to break the rules. And they had the backing of hundreds or thousands of people who believed their cause was right. Similar to the near 500,000 people (according to the iPhone unlocking team) who have downloaded the unlocking software and probably unlocked their phones.

 

[Leemo]

Doesn't seem like the firmware is coming out this week anyway.
I checked first thing this morning, and iTunes skipped ahead to say 'check again 10/2/07'. So, looks like they keep pushing the date back a week at a time.

That doesn't mean anything whatsoever - iTunes always just bumps the date forward, it doesn't give an indication as to when there will be an update.

-Leemo

 

[Peace]

I was hardly making you look evil and I stand by the intention of my post, however I wrote that earlier and I was really pissed off about something else at the time. (No, not the iPhone announcement ) So i apologize for being a dick about it.
I also don't really feel sorry for the people who will end up with bricked iphones, it sucks but they know the risk. Im more interested in the technical nature of this, to really know if this is FUD or not.

I honestly don't see how they can update the firmware to cause (not intentionally) a permanent catastrophic failure of the device. It just doesn't seem logical that you wouldn't be able to re-flash the EEPROM with the firmware on it with the original virgin firmware.

My apologies also.

Now about EPROM/Firmware..I could be wrong but it's my understanding that when a company flashes the eprom with firmware it does a checksum on the current eprom data to check it.If it's off then the new flash won't continue.If it's correct it will continue and flash the chip.

I could be wrong.It's been a while since I messed with eprom chips.

 

[Virgil-TB2]

Whats with these moronic comments? You are saying he's rich just because he lives part-time in different countries??

Yes, yes I am.

It's actually very easy to do when you have relatives living in different parts of the world, have parents in the military, ...

I didn't say it was "easy" or "hard" I said it was the mark of a 1st world "rich" person to be able do this. It is.

... Have you even been out of the United States?

(Praise the lord God in all his mighty-ness ), I haven't been to the US at all, (and I hope never to go there). It's scary!

And NO, just because you live in say western Europe part of the year or for a year at a time DOES NOT MEAN you will handily afford a $350/month roaming bill from AT&T!

I think you don't have an argument here. The fact that these huge roaming charges exist means that yes, it is totally possible for people to afford that. Otherwise the roaming charges would be reduced since no one would use them. I agree that it's way expensive and nothing I personally would ever pay for, but that doesn't mean that the average 1st world person would not pay for this. You are also ignoring the fact that the user still has a choice of using a second "cheapo" phone when they are in the other country and that no one is twisting their arm to buy an iPhone in the first place.

In any case, my main point was that someone with tons of hugely expensive gadgets that they consider "toys" (see the OP's response below), multiple copies of the same gadget etc. who travels all over the world and then complains about their "right" to an unlocked iPhone is acting a bit immature IMO.

I am posting my opinion that these folks are making the proverbial "mountain out of a molehill" in regards this situation and I can't muster any real sympathy for them. The hot responses I get just indicate how ridiculously over the top the whole iPhone drama is getting.

People need to calm down, get a life and realise they don't have "rights" to their own special unlocked iPhone with all the software they think they require installed on it. Stamping up and down and crying "I want, I want, I want!" is not going to help anything. They also need to realise that all the things they want will come in a few years anyway.

 

[EagerDragon]

So you're saying if I decide to jay walk tomorrow, I may end up joining the mafioso or better yet turn into Batman.

My point is, the people I mentioned had just cause to break the rules. And they had the backing of hundreds or thousands of people who believed their cause was right. Similar to the near 500,000 people (according to the iPhone unlocking team) who have downloaded the unlocking software and probably unlocked their phones.

My point is that it does no matter how right you are, you may still may not come out a hero or on top, that all our actions and inactions have repercusions no matter how right we think we are.

How badly we want it and are we prepared for those repercussions is the bottom line. Some people cross the street with their eys closed and come out ok, some become road kill.

That is all I am saying.

 

[winterspan]

good post!

As long as you don't update your phone to the new firmware your update will continue to work just fine. If you have any sort of hardware problems then you are covered by warranty. You would need to bring your iPhone back to a "virgin state" as it is called. And take it back for repair. Apple cannot deny you service on bad hardware. If its software (hacked) issue, you should be able to find help on several iPhone hacking forums.

I don't know why people are taking such an anti-choice view on this situation. Wouldn't it be fun if Apple closed up the Mac platform in a similar fashion? Only Apple software and .Mac internet services. No google, no Firefox or any other choices save what Apple decides is right for you.

The point is you need to separate the iPhone into its 3 components. The hardware which you outright own and are free to do with as you see fit. If I decide to buy an iPhone to use as a doorstop or a paperweight, there is nothing Apple can do about it. If I decide to install Linux on my closed Mac platform, again, its my business. There is the software which Apple owns. If you decide to mess with their copyrighted stuff the you're in trouble. In the case of the unlocks, the hackers write their own stuff to replace Apple's. And the service which is ATT. Considering the US is the model of free markets, it would be a grave contradiction, to allow such anti competitive actions to foster in the market place, where a consumer cannot move freely between different cell phone services. ATT was broken up into the Baby Bells for exactly that reason.

Here's a scenario. Say you have your land based telephone service with Verizon. You realise ATT is providing a better long distance package. You decide to switch. You now then need to get a separate house phone and phone line from ATT to use that long distance service in addition to Verizon phone. This is exactly what cellular service providers are asking you to do. How is that good for the consumer? Its only a matter of time before government steps in to put those companies in check.

Good post. Thankfully I am not one of the "unlocked", I was just standing up for the few that had "legitimate" (AKA living outside the USA or having no AT&T coverage in their area) reasons for unlocking the iphone
and were possibly going to get squeezed by this Apple update. Alot of people were being a**holes saying crap like "HAHA All you guys are screwed" and "you are all idiots .. you knew the consequences". And I was just commenting on how they were being di**heads and they should help solve the problem or ****!

anyways.. I gotta stop getting so agitated

 

[winterspan]

DEREGULATION IS NOT THE ANSWER! You give telecoms even an inch & they'll **** you

The answer isn't to demand that they share what they invested in. Just let people lay what they need.

The problem here is not regulation, it's over-regulation -- allowing them to have a monopoly on cable.

Open it up and let people invest or not as they see fit.

Requiring people to let competitors use their lines is a false choice.

The whole point is they ARE NOT THE OWNERS OF THE LINES. In the case of the earliest phone lines, most of them were laid down with the help and funding of the government. Therefore, if the government is investing money to wire the country, then the private companies that are partners in the agreement are bound to the terms of the deal, which in this case meant leasing the lines wholesale to competing companies. The Answer is NOT DEREGULATION. the problem stems from the fact that the damage is already done with MIS-REGULATION and therefore the cable and telephone/DSL incumbents are so embedded in their market, that it would be impossible for someone to compete fairly, hence the whole point of the government assisting the original private companies in the first place.

This also happened on a state level during the 90's when states invested LITERALLY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into regional telecom companies to build out a nationwide fiber-optic network for ubiquitous high speed internet (45 mbps bi-directional), similar to the public/private fiber networks that many of our European and Asian friends have created. The states gave these financial handouts in many forms, including legislation that directly increased their profits (removing price caps, etc) , state grants, and ENORMOUS tax incentives. In addition to that, the telecom lobbyists successfully argued that much more deregulation was needed in order to "free" them to be able to build out these fiber-optic networks, all the time promising a quick build out and cheap and ubiquitous access for the consumers.

After many years of broken promises, contract renegotiations, lawsuits, approved mergers, etc, total funding, which amounts to nearly $200,000,000,000 has been completely squandered, AND NO ONE HAS BEEN HELD TO ACCOUNT. The politicians changed, the regulations changed, and not one **** person is sitting in prison right now. WTF!!!
The Nieman Watchdog group at Harvard University says "

In short, the Bell companies gamed the regulatory system: after the state deals went through and the mergers were completed, they simply closed everything, even though they had commitments under state laws ... It is now clear that in most states companies did minimal work, and the public was scammed as a result.

They have a great introductory article written on their website with alot of background information into this **** scam. You can find it here:
http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Ask_this.view&askthisid=186

So next time you tout the virtues of deregulation and quote philosophical arguments about government intervention, I suggest you look closer at the facts and reality, and leave the Ideology to the Whitehouse and their cronies who are working to destroy this country from the inside out.

 

[winterspan]

iPhone in Europe with no subsidy a huge liability?

Before you start wondering if the US iPhone deal is a rip-off, just take a look at these iMac prices and cry together with me:

iMac, 20”, 2,4 GHz., 1 GB RAM, 320 GB hard disk, in Apple stores, all prices converted to Euro, yesterday’s rates;

NL €1449
DE €1449
ES €1399 = - 50
UK €1263 = - 186
NZ €1118 = - 331
US €990 = - 459

Differences in VAT tariffs were not taken into account and my assumption is, iMacs for Europe are assembled in Ireland.

Yeah, even with possible VAT tariffs being different, those prices are TERRIBLE for the iMac. Im really sorry my friend.



But in regards to the iPhone, Im wondering if the phone/contract price is similar in the Netherlands as it is in the UK and other countries (Germany i think, etc) Where people can get the Latest and greatest phones for *FREE* if they sign a 18-month or 24-month contract. As an example, some people were pointing out that they were going to actually sign up for a plan and receive a free Nokia N95 (retails for $700 in the USA- about €500). They were then going to ebay this and use the cash to buy an iPhone and use the other
phones SIM/ or change the plan to the iphone SIM.
Anyways, the point is that they could get the Nokia N95, a very expensive phone for FREE by just signing a 2-year contract. Signing a lesser 1-year contact could get them the N95 for a hundred Euros or a cheaper €350 phone for free.

In the United states, we'd be lucky to get €70-€100 off a phone for signing a 2-year contract.

My question is

1) Is this massive cellphone subsidization for signing a contract scheme similar to what the phone companies do in the Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe?

2) More importantly, with consumers able to get such a GREAT deal on an excellent phone, is ANYBODY going to want to spend the €369 PLUS the 2-year contract on an iPhone?

 

[winterspan]

unlockers not a big source of reveneue

I can't believe the amount of people who seem to think that only AT&T are bothered by unlocked phones. They seem to have forgotten that Apple get about $4 per contract per month. Someone a few pages back said that there are 230,000 unlocked iPhones out there. Assuming those figures to be correct (they don't seem unreasonable and I don't have more accurate figures to hand) we can assume that Apple is losing (through lost revenue rather than actually losing) around $1million PER MONTH.
Yeah, they're not bothered by that at all are they?

Well that figure sure seems artifically high, but regardless I wonder how many of those would actually have purchased the iphone if they had to sign a 2-year contract with AT&T. As i said previously, I would put money on it that many of those people either don't live in an area serviced by AT&T, are regular international travelers, Live outside the United States in a country not able to get a legitimate iPhone (craziness on Apples part), or have some other specific reason for not doing this the simple way. I doubt a majority of them just want to use T-Mobile in the USA. I would peg the "just want to use T-mobile" crowd at 20-30% of the unlockers, maybe less. This is getting speculative, but even some large percent of those wouldn't have gotten an iphone and would have stuck with their Tmobile contract/phone.

I know the numbers are hard to get, but I wouldn't bet more than 10% of those with unlocked phones would HAVE SIGNED UP WITH AT&T IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Even with a larger percentage say 20% that would have signed up with AT&T,
and Apple gets $5/month per contract (is that anywhere close to correct?)

Assuming you have 100 unlockers, what makes more money:

EDIT - Number were wrong had to edit.. more accurate now

1) 40% of unlockers would sign up with AT&T if forced
2) Apple gets a large $6/month from AT&T
3) iPhone profit margin 40% ($400 retail) = $160/phone

40 iPhones (40*160=$6,400) + 40 monthly rev-share (40*6=$240/mo*24=$5,760) = $12,160 gross profit after cost of iphone

100 iPhones (100*$160) + 0/month = $16,000 gross profit after cost of iphone

So even if a HIGH 40% of the unlockers would have joined AT&T, they would have STILL made more money selling it unlocked!

 

[winterspan]

iPhone in Europe with no subsidy a huge liability?

Before you start wondering if the US iPhone deal is a rip-off, just take a look at these iMac prices and cry together with me:

iMac, 20”, 2,4 GHz., 1 GB RAM, 320 GB hard disk, in Apple stores, all prices converted to Euro, yesterday’s rates;

NL €1449
DE €1449
ES €1399 = - 50
UK €1263 = - 186
NZ €1118 = - 331
US €990 = - 459

Differences in VAT tariffs were not taken into account and my assumption is, iMacs for Europe are assembled in Ireland.

Yeah, even with possible VAT tariffs being different, those prices are TERRIBLE for the iMac. Im really sorry my friend.



But in regards to the iPhone, Im wondering if the phone/contract price is similar in the Netherlands as it is in the UK and other countries (Germany i think, etc) Where people can get the Latest and greatest phones for *FREE* if they sign a 18-month or 24-month contract. As an example, some people were pointing out that they were going to actually sign up for a plan and receive a free Nokia N95 (retails for $700 in the USA- about €500). They were then going to ebay this and use the cash to buy an iPhone and use the other
phones SIM/ or change the plan to the iphone SIM.
Anyways, the point is that they could get the Nokia N95, a very expensive phone for FREE by just signing a 2-year contract. Signing a lesser 1-year contact could get them the N95 for a hundred Euros or a cheaper €350 phone for free.

In the United states, we'd be lucky to get €70-€100 off a phone for signing a 2-year contract.

My question is

1) Is this massive cellphone subsidization for signing a contract scheme similar to what the phone companies do in the Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe?

2) More importantly, with consumers able to get such a GREAT deal on an excellent phone, is ANYBODY going to want to spend the €369 PLUS the 2-year contract on an iPhone?

 

[winterspan]

We need to stop this crap!

double post --- see below

 

[winterspan]

Get back on the horse...

I've been with At&T since it was cingular and you couldn't get a signal anywhere. I almost left and I didn't. Thank goodness, cuz now I got the iphone and it's completely legit. For those who think it's their inaliable right to by a product under the pretenses of using it with a particular service provider just to "hack" it and use it however they want... I say get off your high horse and start playing by the rules. It's your up-and-comings if you update your phone and turn it into a paperweight. You are being the underhanded, you are the ones who are "cheating." Jobs and At&T aren't doing anything good businesses wouldn't do. And if anyone really thinks that all those who bought phones to hack them will really affect the market if they "backlash", you've got another thing coming, because people will learn to play nice, they will learn to follow the rules, especially if it means being prevy to some new fantastic piece of technology unlike anything we've ever seen.
But the truth is, NO ONE on these threads has been able to say whether or not the contract itself binds a phone user legally. It may or it may not. I would love for someone to quote the contract and argue the opposite of what I'm saying. So, to those who will be updating, it's exciting, and to those who might be, be careful.

people like you who bend over with pride and take it no matter the absurdity of the agreement or contract with a company and just "follow the rules" are the very cause of these types of greedy, unethical, and soon to be outlawed business practices. If everyone would have just told Apple and AT&T to go **** themselves, we'd have an unlocked iPhone and probably even a CDMA iPhone. No one is "cheating" or being underhanded. They are simply trying to USE the device THEY BOUGHT AND RIGHTFULLY OWN the way they would like to. Don't chastise people for trying to push the boundary of control back a little until our waste of sh** government steps in and stops this anti-consumer and anti-competitive practice.

If everyone behaved the way you did, Everyone would be locked into highly complex and convoluted "agreements" and "terms & conditions" on every item you'd own. It has become so bad already, I can only imagine what will happen if NOBODY stands up for what is right.

Case in point: Just look at the Amazon Unbox Movie Purchase Download Service

1) You don't even "own" the damn movie! You have a limited right to:
"pay a fee to view Digital Content a repeated number of times..... Upon your payment of the license fee, Amazon grants you a
non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license to retain a permanent copy of Purchased Digital Content.."

AND...

"You do not acquire any ownership rights in the Digital Content as a result of downloading Digital Content. "

2) So you don't really own ANYTHING... and thats only if your download of a huge movie file isn't interrupted and Amazon decides to not let you restart the download.

"You bear all risk of loss for completing the download of Digital Content after purchasee, once we have made such content available to you, and for any loss of Digital Content you have downloaded... Purchased Digital Content will generally continue to be available for download... but may become unavailable due to potential content provider licensing restrictions and for other reasons and Amazon will not be liable to you if content becomes unavailable for further download"

content providers can revoke your ability to re-download content you already purchased? WTF?...
3) Well thank goodness I can creat a backup. I can create a backup right?

"You may make a back-up copy of Purchased Digital Content on removable media (e.g. recordable DVD) in the same format as the original downloaded file... Any back-up copy of the Purchased Digital Content on a DVD will not be playable on a traditional DVD player, but only on a permitted Authorized Device."

Ok, I can burn a DVD backup so in case my Harddisk crashes and you won't let me download my PURCHASED movie again? Wait what? It won't play in my living room DVD player? the files are placed in a proprietary file container and encrypted? shucks...

4) Again, you don't own anything and they'll take it away if you do any of the following:
* don't allow their program perpetual access to the internet
* don't install mandatory program update
* uninstall the program
* nothing at all - they just want to randomly revoke your service and delete all your movies.. SNAP!

"If you violate any of the terms or conditions of this Agreement or otherwise abuse the Service, your license to Purchased Digital Content will immediately terminate and Amazon may, in its discretion, immediately revoke your access to the Service without notice to you and without refund of any fees. ... Amazon shall have the right to automatically delete all Digital Content on your Authorized Device without notice to you.
... Amazon reserves the right to modify, suspend, or discontinue the Service, or any part thereof, at any time without notice to you, and Amazon will not be liable to you should it exercise such rights, even if your use of Digital Content is impacted by the change."

First of all, "abuse the service" - How does on do that? Seems conspicuously obscure compared to the rest of the legalspeak.
Alas, it does not matter, because everything else in that paragraph basically states: If we want to for no good reason, we can *** you and delete everything you 'own' and you don't get a dime back or a chance to appeal. And you won't even know why we did it! so go to hell!

5) Did I mention you can ONLY watch the content in your house ... or underground in a secret tomb, but only if it's just you. And you locked the hatch behind you.

"As used herein, 'Residence' shall mean a private, residential dwelling unit or a private individual office unit, but excluding hotel rooms, motel rooms, hospital patient rooms, restaurants, bars, prisons, barracks, drilling rigs and all other structures, institutions or places of transient or work-related residence as well as places, areas, structures, rooms or offices which are common areas or open to the public or to occupiers of separate Residences or for which an admission fee is charged"

So let me get this straight... If you buy a regular DVD from Amazon.com, you can play it anywhere you damn well please... but If I "purchase" an equally-priced inferior quality version I can only play on my computer, I can't watch it a hotel or motel room when Im traveling, a hospital room when I'm injured, a restaurant or bar (starbucks?), jail or prison, army barracks or drilling rigs (WTF?), or any other structure, institution (does college or camp count?) or places of transient (airport? car?) or work-related residence (my office? underwater scientific research vessel? ) or "places, areas, structures, rooms, or offices which are open to the public or to occupiers of seperate residences", So that would be your front yard, all your friend's houses, greygound buses, trains, subways, public parks, libraries, schools, rescue shelters, or anywhere else besides your house.

6) Oh... and one more thing (I just had to throw that one in)

Amazon reserves the right to make changes to this Agreement at any time. Your continued use of the Service following any such changes will constitute your acceptance of such changes.

What, so next week it's going to say "Amazon reserves the right to allow its employees to sleep with your wife at any time. If you or your wife do not agree to this, Amazon will revoke your service and delete all your *** movies!

 

[winterspan]

Agreed - thanks for the comment.

At least in Europe big corporations still have to behave half civilized, unlike the on the other side of the pond, in the United Corporations of America.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds...

HAHA... I love that. the "UCA". thats makes me want to open up the ol' photoshop and make a new tshirt at cafepress.com

With alot of luck, someday I just might take the time to fight the man. For now, I'm too youn anyways and a congressional seat REALLY doesn't look appetizing at the moment.

lol

 

[winterspan]

reflash

My apologies also.

Now about EPROM/Firmware..I could be wrong but it's my understanding that when a company flashes the eprom with firmware it does a checksum on the current eprom data to check it.If it's off then the new flash won't continue.If it's correct it will continue and flash the chip.

I could be wrong.It's been a while since I messed with eprom chips.

No I think you're right. Thats intuitive at least and makes sense. I wonder if people tried to re-flash it with the original firmware they would get some sort of checksum error? but if Apple can do it more than once (many different updates) then it seems like the checksum would just change each time, and therefore on the unlocked phones, they would have a new checksum, so of course the apple flash wouldn't work, but they could still put the original data back on, the checksum goes back to normal, and then the update works.

If i get some time soon I'm going to do some real research on it.

 

[killerrobot]

"Apple said Monday that many of the unauthorized iPhone unlocking programs available on the Internet cause irreparable damage [to the software]

Too bad it doesn't damage the hardware. That would be awesome to see people's iphone's just spontaneously combusting or exploding.

Of course Apple is doing this on purpose to try and so a teenage kid can't ruin their world domination scheme.

Edit: didn't read the entire 7 pages of posts and this might now seem a non-sequitor, but at least it's still on topic

 

[winterspan]

Apologies...

Yes, yes I am.
I didn't say it was "easy" or "hard" I said it was the mark of a 1st world "rich" person to be able do this. It is.

(Praise the lord God in all his mighty-ness ), I haven't been to the US at all, (and I hope never to go there). It's scary!

I think you don't have an argument here. The fact that these huge roaming charges exist means that yes, it is totally possible for people to afford that. Otherwise the roaming charges would be reduced since no one would use them. I agree that it's way expensive and nothing I personally would ever pay for, but that doesn't mean that the average 1st world person would not pay for this. You are also ignoring the fact that the user still has a choice of using a second "cheapo" phone when they are in the other country and that no one is twisting their arm to buy an iPhone in the first place.

In any case, my main point was that someone with tons of hugely expensive gadgets that they consider "toys" (see the OP's response below), multiple copies of the same gadget etc. who travels all over the world and then complains about their "right" to an unlocked iPhone is acting a bit immature IMO.

I am posting my opinion that these folks are making the proverbial "mountain out of a molehill" in regards this situation and I can't muster any real sympathy for them. The hot responses I get just indicate how ridiculously over the top the whole iPhone drama is getting.

People need to calm down, get a life and realise they don't have "rights" to their own special unlocked iPhone with all the software they think they require installed on it. Stamping up and down and crying "I want, I want, I want!" is not going to help anything. They also need to realise that all the things they want will come in a few years anyway.

Yeah I agree. First of all, I went over the top with it because I was having a bad day, so i apologize for the moron comment.
Secondly, I constantly forget how many people on this forum are not in the US. When i replied to that, I was replying to a "random American". I understand now my perception was very wrong and, yes, in relation to someone outside of the maturely-developed countries in "the West", it would be difficult to do such a thing. I did not intend to claim otherwise .. only in relation to someone living in the US with an average job. I am not one of the many millions of ignorant **** Americans that don't understand life or even traveling outside North America. I am only in my early 20's but I have traveled quite a bit outside North America, and actually I would love to live in Germany or Spain.

I also agree that there are too many "spoiled children" on this forum that piss and moan about their toy problems. And I'm not calling out everyone, but yes, many of them are probably American. Our country is a very material one, and many people just "don't get it". But overall I think there are also alot of nice and modest people on the forum and I enjoy "talking" with them.

 

[winterspan]

Apologies...

Yes, yes I am.
I didn't say it was "easy" or "hard" I said it was the mark of a 1st world "rich" person to be able do this. It is.

(Praise the lord God in all his mighty-ness ), I haven't been to the US at all, (and I hope never to go there). It's scary!

I think you don't have an argument here. The fact that these huge roaming charges exist means that yes, it is totally possible for people to afford that. Otherwise the roaming charges would be reduced since no one would use them. I agree that it's way expensive and nothing I personally would ever pay for, but that doesn't mean that the average 1st world person would not pay for this. You are also ignoring the fact that the user still has a choice of using a second "cheapo" phone when they are in the other country and that no one is twisting their arm to buy an iPhone in the first place.

In any case, my main point was that someone with tons of hugely expensive gadgets that they consider "toys" (see the OP's response below), multiple copies of the same gadget etc. who travels all over the world and then complains about their "right" to an unlocked iPhone is acting a bit immature IMO.

I am posting my opinion that these folks are making the proverbial "mountain out of a molehill" in regards this situation and I can't muster any real sympathy for them. The hot responses I get just indicate how ridiculously over the top the whole iPhone drama is getting.

People need to calm down, get a life and realise they don't have "rights" to their own special unlocked iPhone with all the software they think they require installed on it. Stamping up and down and crying "I want, I want, I want!" is not going to help anything. They also need to realise that all the things they want will come in a few years anyway.

Yeah I agree. First of all, I went over the top with it because I was having a bad day, so i apologize for the moron comment.
Secondly, I constantly forget how many people on this forum are not in the US. When i replied to that, I was replying to a "random American". I understand now my perception was very wrong and, yes, in relation to someone outside of the maturely-developed countries in "the West", it would be difficult to do such a thing. I did not intend to claim otherwise .. only in relation to someone living in the US with an average job. I am not one of the many millions of ignorant **** Americans that don't understand life or even traveling outside North America. I am only in my early 20's but I have traveled quite a bit outside North America, and actually I would love to live in Germany or Spain.

I also agree that there are too many "spoiled children" on this forum that piss and moan about their toy problems. And I'm not calling out everyone, but yes, many of them are probably American. Our country is a very material one, and many people just "don't get it". But overall I think there are also alot of nice and modest people on the forum and I enjoy "talking" with them.

 

[winterspan]

Too bad it doesn't damage the hardware. That would be awesome to see people's iphone's just spontaneously combusting or exploding.

Of course Apple is doing this on purpose to try and so a teenage kid can't ruin their world domination scheme.

Edit: didn't read the entire 7 pages of posts and this might now seem a non-sequitor, but at least it's still on topic

Fortunately, it wasn't an entirely frivolous comment as at least one of us learned a new figure of speech... Although a quick spell check would help those of us with a limited lexicon query it's meaning

 

[GoodWatch]

actually I would love to live in Germany or Spain.

Try Portugal, even better! There's where I would like to live after I retire