Apple iTunes Movie Service Survey

[alywa]

This would be a major blow to Netflix. There is absolutely no reason that this would be limited to just 1,000 titles a month.

Basically, this would become the ultimate HBO / Showtime / Pay-per-view killer, if the quality is good. I agree that it is going to have to start at DVD quality, and upgrade to HD as bandwidth / internet speeds allow over the next 5 years.

Just imagine: AFI top 100, the complete disney vault, the hard to find foreign and small release films, seldom seen documentaries, plus all of the new hollywood releases, a remote click away. I know for a fact that I would drop HBO and cut my DirecTV back to basic with HD package if this actually happens.

Of course, it will have to be PC and mac compatible, and will have to have a streaming video / wifi type set-top box. There is no way they would release this and simply have it work only with front-row equipped macs, plus the average joe or jane doesn't want a big computer in their TV room. They want something simple, plug and play, that will make this happen.

Exciting times, can't wait to see how they pull it off.

-alywa

 

[Yvan256]

Renting music? Doesn't make any sense except for those who like to hear hundreds of new songs every month. The "old business style" has been to sell music (Vinyls, Cassettes, CDs).

Buying TV shows and movies? Not nearly as interesting. The "old business style" has been through theatres and cable/satellite (pay once/monthly fee, watch once - reruns aside).

As long as the movies are the same resolution as DVDs (say, 720x384) and widescreen, I'd be interested (especially for 15$CAN/month).

I'd also be intersted to pay a monthly fee for TV shows, so I can ditch my digital cable (which costs way too much). If we can pay a fixed fee for unlimited shows, then there's no question I'd do it, even at the current resolution. That would mean unlimited TV shows and movies for about half the price of my cable + 2 DVD movies rental. It's a no-brainer decision, money-wise.

Another thing: the movies (and TV shows, if applicable) better be widescreen. As for the High-Definition stuff, I'd rather have an option. I don't own a plasma or projection TV. It's a 36" CRT, so I'd rather download a DVD resolution movie at 1-2GB rather than a 6-8GB download that won't be of any use to me.

And as far as any P2P/Torrent scheme is concerned, they need to allow download only (no upload). I'm on DSL and the upload speed is locked far below my download speed. I'm not sure but I might even have a monthly cap for the upload stream.

As long as my internet provider doesn't start charging per GiB, I'd sign up for such a monthly service for both TV and movies. 😎

[...]Of course, it will have to be PC and mac compatible, and will have to have a streaming video / wifi type set-top box. There is no way they would release this and simply have it work only with front-row equipped macs, plus the average joe or jane doesn't want a big computer in their TV room. They want something simple, plug and play, that will make this happen.[...]

I guess they introduced that box a few days ago. It's called the Intel Mac mini. 😉

So much for the Mac mini being a "switcher box" only. That makes much more sense for the SPDIF/5.1, Gigabit Ethernet and GMA950 now.

 

[alywa]

I'd also be intersted to pay a monthly fee for TV shows, so I can ditch my digital cable (which costs way too much). If we can pay a fixed fee for unlimited shows, then there's no question I'd do it, even at the current resolution. That would mean unlimited TV shows and movies for about half the price of my cable + 2 DVD movies rental. It's a no-brainer decision, money-wise.

I'd love this too... I just don't think we're going to see it. Cable companies and the networks simply make too much money and have way to much clout (both politically and from a content standpoint) to allow this. Plus, I don't think many people would be able to completely move away from cable due to live events (news, sports, political debates, etc).

Someday, as bandwidth increases, a la carte IPTV with a solution like the proposed movie store we're discussing, could definately (and probably will) replace standard cable.

-alywa

 

[ncoffey]

What would do it for me is the hard to find foreign and small release films being available. I'd probably go for that as long as the DRM wasn't too bad. If I could only watch it on my computer and couldn't backup individual movies to DVDs (even in an encrypted form that couldn't be played on a DVD player) then I probably wouldn't bother with it. Without those titles though I wouldn't be interested. I don't think I'd go for a subscription model either unless it was really cheap.

 

[Yvan256]

I'd love this too... I just don't think we're going to see it. Cable companies and the networks simply make too much money and have way to much clout (both politically and from a content standpoint) to allow this.

Don't forget, Disney owns a LOT of channels and networks. That's a lot of power right there.

As for the other channels/networks, I'm not talking about exclusive deals. They shouldn't care wether they get paid by cable, satellite or internet companies for their shows. In the end it's all the same cash.

Plus, I don't think many people would be able to completely move away from cable due to live events (news, sports, political debates, etc).[...]

I don't see an on-line service completely replacing regular cable/satellite (yet), but I see it replacing specialized channels (Sci-Fi, Space, Discovery) and DVD rental (brick and mortar and on-line/postal DVD rental). People would simply drop their cable/satellite to the "basic service" and use internet for all the "good stuff". I don't know how it works everywhere, but Cogeco here only has specialized channels in "packages". Each package costs about 7$CAN and includes 5-6 channels. But if you only want 3 channels and they're in 3 different packages, you end up paying 21$CAN for those 3 channels. Not good for the user. 😡

 

[dmcxii]

DVD quality but different...

Am I the only one old enough to remember buy 12 (music) cassetes for a penny through some company? Ever try to sell those cassetes back to a used record place? The companies are known and they mark the cassetes so that a used record shop owner will not pay $5 but maybe more like a nickel.

Why not allow iTunes the ability to download DVD quality movies but the VHS version... meaning not all the extra features? or has anyone seen a pre-release movie with the banner at the bottom? how about a little transparent apple in the bottom corner?

Finally, How long would it take to download 4gB on a broadband connection?

 

[alywa]

Finally, How long would it take to download 4gB on a broadband connection?

I don't think we're talking 4GB. I think more like 1-1.5 GB. We're going to see mp4 - h.264 encoding... much more efficient than the MPEG-2 used on DVDs.

I figure it will take around 30 minutes for most people to download... that's why they will use the "queue" concept... you pick the ones you want, and have like 5 or so at any given time... downloaded in advance (at night, etc). Plus, you'll be able to pick one you want, and in the time it used to take to drive to blockbuster, get the movie, wait in line, etc.. you'll have the one you want even if it wasn't in your original queue.

-alywa

 

[BoyBach]

What would do it for me is the hard to find foreign and small release films being available.

I agree. An iTunes movie store (doesn't sound right, does it?) would be an ideal home for small independents and documentary makers with its lower costs and ITMS's potentially global market reach.

 

[FarleyHudson]

sign me up...

A $10 subscription would be a great deal considering how much you have to pay for digital cable/ on demand.

I have an HD tv set but don't expect 1080p from a download service. I would be 100% satisfied with:

- unlimited download
- 480p widescreen
- 5.1 audio
- independent content, shorts, docs, educational programing, art, design, horror, comedy, foreign, classics, etc.

I really just want to be able to brows movies and shows like iTunes Music Store and watch what I want. Like tv but with 100% customized programing.

 

[wkhahn]

You're missing something

no you can't... i mean you can, but you're breaking the law by doing it. the backup copy isn't illegal, but the copy software breaks macrovision encryption which is a violation of the DMCA and punishable by time in prison and fines.

there is no way in hell that apple will allow users to burn playable copies of any downloaded video content to disc.

Aplle already has the right to legally decrypt DVD's; Its called DVD Player.

Also, if Apple did a subscription/purchase service for movies they would have to let you burn to DVD. Imagine that you can have three "rented" movies on your subnetwork at any one time. The right to those files do not allow moving from the disk where they reside. However, if you decide to purchase one of those movies, your rights would be extended to allow 1 burn and 1 move. Of course, the movies would have to be in a higher quality format than ITMS curently allows.

 

[Diatribe]

Not under 480p.
Most likely for 720p.
Definitely for 1080i.

 

[dashiel]

Aplle already has the right to legally decrypt DVD's; Its called DVD Player.

but only for playback. look at all the hoops you have to jump through just to get a screen shot of a DVD in apple's DVD player.

CSS is the encryption on a DVD. The DMCA prevents you from breaking it or distributing software that breaks it. But the DMCA only affects US citizens. Don't forget that MacRumors is an international forum. It may well be legal in the country laidbackliam lives in.

my mistake on the css/macrovision. it was late. actually the DMCA affects anyone *in* the united states regardless of nationality as dimitry sklyarov found out, but you're right laidbackliam might be in another country.

--

media companies are increasingly looking for ways to prevent consumers from creating backups. this isn't going to reverse course any time soon. we can belabor the details until we're blue in the face, but i think the reality is apple will never be allowed to offer the consumer the ability to burn a playable back up version.

and really with a service like this, that will be tied heavily to iTMS and iPod why would you need a playable disc version? playback will occur through front row. sharing with friends/family will happen when you take your ipod over to their house.

i actually think it's quite a good solution in terms of fair use while limiting the ability to pirate. of course i think that because i have a video capable ipod 🙂 jumping in early as i did i suspect i'll be the bottom rung of capable players when/if the video service comes out. but as with all things apple (lately) i suspect this is an effort to sell more ipods.

 

[JZ Wire]

Im a die hard Netflix fan/member but if Apple came out with a dl service for movies i would definitely be one of the first to sign up. However, id like to see several features worked in at its inception, like, being able to burn the movie even if it is just once so that i can at least own a hard copy of the movie. Also, that the quality of the movie is quite good. Maybe not HD but DvD quality should be standard. All that, and, as long as i can watch it whenever i want and as much as i want ..well...lets just say that Netflix had a good run.

 

[Cooknn]

Most likely for 720p.

I believe all of ABC's stuff is at 720p, so I would guess it's likely that Apple would go that route if they offer Hi-Def. The Hi-Def trailer for Batman Begins is at 720p and is 115MB for 2:24 encoded with H.264. The run time for the entire movie is 140 minutes which would put the total movie size at 6.7GB. It's a lot, but my 8Mbit Comcast connection could make quick work of that, barring any issues on the server end. Last night I had a heck of a time just downloading the latest Audioslave CD off of iTunes, so I'm not so confident in their ability to deliver that kind of bandwidth - at least not in their current state. Maybe there will be some huge pipes going into that new data center 😉

 

[Diatribe]

I believe all of ABC's stuff is at 720p, so I would guess it's likely that Apple would go that route if they offer Hi-Def. The Hi-Def trailer for Batman Begins is at 720p and is 115MB for 2:24 encoded with H.264. The run time for the entire movie is 140 minutes which would put the total movie size at 6.7GB. It's a lot, but my 8Mbit Comcast connection could make quick work of that, barring any issues on the server end. Last night I had a heck of a time just downloading the latest Audioslave CD off of iTunes, so I'm not so confident in their ability to deliver that kind of bandwidth - at least not in their current state. Maybe there will be some huge pipes going into that new data center 😉

Yeah, I was going to say, that wit their new data center that might be a possibility. I just doubt Apple would offer anything over 2GB so that would leave us with 480 or lower. 🙁
The problem is that America is the target market and broadband just sucks there. Now if they had the kind of speeds they have in Japan (100 up/down) that would be enough for hi-def content. Especially considering that that costs them $50 a month.

 

[carfac]

Why are so many people concerned with DVD/480p video- "High Quality" for movies, but willing to settle for medium quality music? I will not do iTunes ever becasue (IMHO) 99 cents is WAY too much for a relitively poor quality, copy-crippled piece of music.

Based on what iTunes does to music, I doubt you would get much in terms of quality for video, either. Certianly not what I would consider acceptible, and probably not at what I would consider a good price (not that the pricing is Apples fault at all- that is the fault of greedy record and movie producers). ANd the idea of real HD for full movies... I think you are smoking something wakky if you think that is possible!

dave

 

[Diatribe]

Why are so many people concerned with DVD/480p video- "High Quality" for movies, but willing to settle for medium quality music? I will not do iTunes ever becasue (IMHO) 99 cents is WAY too much for a relitively poor quality, copy-crippled piece of music.
...

dave

No one ever said that. I for one don't buy music from iTunes for the very same reason.
Now if they were to offer Lossless music with artwork and lyrics, I'd never buy another CD.

 

[amateurmacfreak]

- What is the resolution? Widesrceen? If so, how would one watch them on their iPod (unless a new one is coming out! 😱 😉)

I watch widescreen a lot on my iPod. It's just small. 🙂 W/ a lot of pixels obviously not filled.

 

[ddrueckhammer]

I have posted numerous posts saying that this should be part of Apple's strategy so I'm all for it. I would even pay a little more than Netflix for the convenience factor. Blockbuster (in my area) charges $4 for a new rental and Netflix typically ranges from $10-$18 per month depending on how many you have out. I think that $15/month might be a happy median as it is just under $2 per rental if you rented 2 per week. Apple will have added costs of bandwidth and will have to invest in a new server farm. The question is whether these costs are more or less than Netflix's postage costs and warehousing costs? Also, will the MPAA and studios give Apple content to sell. I'm sure all Disney and Viacom properties will (thanks Steve) but will the rest?

In order to succeed I think an iTunes Movie/Media Store will need:

1. Higher Quality Content (640x480 minimum, 800x600 would be better)
2. Competitive pricing (Under $20/month or $3 per rental)
3. A separate app and online store for video content (iTunes and the ITMS is already getting cluttered)
4. A flexible DRM that doesn't tie content only to the computer. (I can play a DVD anywhere why would I want to play downloaded movies only on 1 machine, this may be OK if the content is for rental only though)

Hopefully Apple can deliver some or all of this and Mac Mini's will be their next hot product! They had better hurry; the CEO of Netflix has already stated this is the future and I'm sure Tivo is doing R&D on this. The first service that has many of the above features will have a distinct competitive advantage.

 

[Doctor Q]

In order to succeed I think an iTunes Movie/Media Store will need:

3. A separate app and online store for video content (iTunes and the ITMS is already getting cluttered)

I suspect they won't take your advice on this one, at least for the store. They already get a lot of cross promotion by mixing music, music videos, and TV shows. It would be the same for movies: "Like the movie? Get the soundtrack!"

 

[geiger167]

And if the complete lack of series downloads is anything to go by in the UK we can look forward to old Carry On films and a few episodes of Rumpolde of the Bailey lol. And dont get me started on region coding.
However the file size of high-def content could be a problem as a 5 gig download on my 10 meg line takes about a hour and twenty minutes at full speed so I would presume they would use 480p movie files innitially 🙁

 

[ddrueckhammer]

I suspect they won't take your advice on this one, at least for the store. They already get a lot of cross promotion by mixing music, music videos, and TV shows. It would be the same for movies: "Like the movie? Get the soundtrack!"

While I think you may be right, I hope that Apple's design team will remember their roots and put ease of use and UI first.

Also, to respond to the DVD burning posts, I think that if Microsoft is able to put DRM burning into Vista, then Apple will add it to Leopard and this service.

 

[carfac]

No one ever said that. I for one don't buy music from iTunes for the very same reason.
Now if they were to offer Lossless music with artwork and lyrics, I'd never buy another CD.

Sorry- I think I mis-wrote, but you understood my intent... I meant to use iTunes as it currently IS as an example for what to expect in iMoves. Based on copy-crippled, low-rez music (that we both agree is not worth buying), I think we can expect similar in iMovies- copy-crippled AND low-rez. (BTW, I agree- I would pay 99 cents for Apple Lossless, even with copy protection... but no way for 128 kbit)

I DO NOT BLAME APPLE for this- their hands are tied by what MPAA and RIAA let them do. They prove themeselves to be greedy beyond belief, over and over. They will not allow this unless the protection schemes are totally locked down (not that someone in Sweden won't break that in 2 weeks 🙂 )

But I also think you are being a bit optimistic in costs- Apple get's pennies... someone else is going to set a pretty high base price that Apple will have to work with.

Just my 2 cents.

dave

 

[Diatribe]

Sorry- I think I mis-wrote, but you understood my intent... I meant to use iTunes as it currently IS as an example for what to expect in iMoves. Based on copy-crippled, low-rez music (that we both agree is not worth buying), I think we can expect similar in iMovies- copy-crippled AND low-rez. (BTW, I agree- I would pay 99 cents for Apple Lossless, even with copy protection... but no way for 128 kbit)

I DO NOT BLAME APPLE for this- their hands are tied by what MPAA and RIAA let them do. They prove themeselves to be greedy beyond belief, over and over. They will not allow this unless the protection schemes are totally locked down (not that someone in Sweden won't break that in 2 weeks 🙂 )

But I also think you are being a bit optimistic in costs- Apple get's pennies... someone else is going to set a pretty high base price that Apple will have to work with.

Just my 2 cents.

dave

Unfortunately you are right. We can expect the same in movie downloads, which sucks. I fear that we might come to the point in the future where there will only be compressed, DRMed songs to buy and no CDs anymore. If the record labels could they probably would.

 

[Cooknn]

Unfortunately you are right. We can expect the same in movie downloads, which sucks.

IMHO if Apple doesn't lead, they will lose in the movie arena. Netflix is surely positioned to offer HD-DVD or Blu-Ray movie rentals as soon as they become mainstream. Apple has always played the Hi-Def card whenever they get the chance. It will be a big mistake if they don't offer movie downloads with H.264 in at least 720p. Truthfully though, I don't care if I get them from Apple or Netflix. The karma would surely be better with an iTunes interface though 😛

OT: As I write this I am totally amazed at how iTunes mixes my songs randomly night after night with some sort of theme. It's freaking scary sometimes...