Apple Job Posting Suggests 'Revolutionary' New Mac OS X Feature

[KnightWRX]

Well then you have multiple clipboards built-in then. To prevent accidentally erasing files.

Again, what's so wrong with dragging and dropping?

It requires you to keep the mouse button clicked while going to the destination folder.

What's wrong with cmd+X cmd+V ?

 

[John.B]

I didn't say anything about the maximize button. I don't want to maximize or "optimize" my windows. I want to size them how *I* want them and put them where *I* want them, and it should not require so many steps to do so. There is NO good reason to omit this feature other than stubborn "OS X is not windows" egocentric pride and foolishness.

When was this ever a feature of OS X, to have it "omitted"?

If you'll go back to what I said about the Option button + Zoom, it solves the problem of a window being too large on a MacBook display after last using it with with an external monitor. Resize from the lower-right corner from there. One key and a couple mouse clicks. The next time you open the application (depending on the individual application's developer), it should be exactly where it was the last time you last used it.

When I try to accomplish the same thing on a Windows box, I have to fish out the title bar to get the top left corner resized and move the window again (sometimes this takes two or three tries) in order to get it where I want it.

Once you are used to how window resizing works in OS X, you might just find it's as fast or faster than the Windows method. I know I do. And that's why I don't want the Mac OS team to copy the Windows version, if anything they ought to do a better job of explaining how this works from a Mac perspective.

BTW, that's also why I was so bent out of shape when some smartguy at Apple ignored the HIG and went off on his own and broke this for iTunes 9.1, thankfully it was quickly corrected in a patch release.

 

[Stevamundo]

Why reinvent the wheel ? Just repackage wine in a friendlier form.

The article does mention this is something new, never before seen. If that isn't just HR chest thumping, it can't be something that's been around for the last 15 years...

Oh did you see Windows applications run natively on Mac OSX before? Who are you? Are you from the future? This is 2010 dude.

It requires you to keep the mouse button clicked while going to the destination folder.

WOW! Do you get a finger cramp?

 

[KnightWRX]

Oh did you see Windows applications run nativity on Mac OSX before? Who are you? Are you from the future? This is 2010 dude.

Uh ? That's how I played the recently released Monkey Island. Again, been around for 15 years, it's called Wine.

And what does Jesus' birth have to do with it ? Nativity uh ? Take a break, you seem to be taking all of this wayyyy too personally.

WOW! Do you get a finger cramp?

Why are you so defensive ? cmd+x and cmd+v. I can even get up from the computer between the cut and the paste. What is wrong with it ?

Why are Mac guys so against cut & paste in finder ? You do know you can have both at the same time...

 

[Stevamundo]

Uh ? That's how I played the recently released Monkey Island. Again, been around for 15 years, it's called Wine.

And what does Jesus' birth have to do with it ? Nativity uh ? Take a break, you seem to be taking all of this wayyyy too personally.

Again, Wine isn't fully integrated with Mac OSX now is it?

Why are you so defensive ? cmd+x and cmd+v. I can even get up from the computer between the cut and the paste. What is wrong with it ?

Why are Mac guys so against cut & paste in finder ? You do know you can have both at the same time...

Like I said build multiple clipboards so there won't be any accidents erasing of files.

BTW, cut and paste isn't exactly like “nobody has seen before” either.

 

[KnightWRX]

Again, Wine isn't fully integrated with Mac OSX now is it?

But it's not new and never before seen like claimed in this job posting. Who cares if it isn't provided on the OS X cd, once installed, it's as integrated as the bash shell or X11 is. I can just double-click a .exe and it executes.

Like I said build multiple clipboards so there won't be any accidents erasing of files.

You'll always have accidents. That's what backups are for.

BTW, cut and paste isn't exactly like “nobody has seen before” either.

Never said it was, just said there is nothing wrong with it and some people are taking this "drag and drop is perfect, cut and paste is evil" thing too far.

 

[Stevamundo]

But it's not new and never before seen like claimed in this job posting. Who cares if it isn't provided on the OS X cd, once installed, it's as integrated as the bash shell or X11 is. I can just double-click a .exe and it executes.



You'll always have accidents. That's what backups are for.



Never said it was, just said there is nothing wrong with it and some people are taking this "drag and drop is perfect, cut and paste is evil" thing too far.

This is hilarious! You said that my idea of completely integrating Mac OSX with Wine “isn't new and never seen before like this job posting wants.” Yet you're complaining about copying and pasting in the Finder? LOL!

I'm sure that Apple could make the wine technology even better and then fully integrated in Mac OSX.

Hell, this is more innovative than your “oh they need more copy and paste functionally in the Finder. Copy and paste has been around since the early 90's.

Just maybe, if Apple improves the wine technology and integrates it into Mac OSX then Macs could have better graphics cards also.

 

[cmaier]

This is hilarious! You said that my idea of completely integrating Mac OSX with Wine “isn't new and never seen before like this job posting wants.” Yet you're complaining about copying and pasting in the Finder? LOL!

I'm sure that Apple could make the wine technology even better and then fully integrated in Mac OSX.

Hell, this is more innovative than your “oh they need more copy and paste functionally in the Finder. Copy and paste has been around since the early 90's.

Just maybe, if Apple improves the wine technology and integrates it into Mac OSX then Macs could have better graphics cards also.

Apple has no interest in going there. I'm sure even bootcamp pains Steve at night.

 

[backdraft]

I agree, why add bloat by integrating WINE? VMWare Fusion does the job and it's easier to manage once Window's goes bonkers just rollback to a previous snapshot.

On another not Apple should look into using the Kexi code base so I can finally banish M$ Access! Perhaps if Filemaker could handle Access files. Hmmm...

Apple has no interest in going there. I'm sure even bootcamp pains Steve at night.

 

[MorphingDragon]

So it's ok in a Windows file system or a VAX file system, just not in a UNIX file system ? Pray tell what the difference is.

To simplify it massively, its the differences in how NTFS and most UNIX filesystems work.

It's called WHINE. I mentioned this earlier in this thread.

Stop recommending WINE! At least have the decency to back up the company that sponsors it, then you can complain when it inevitably all goes to hell. I wish transgaming would make a Cedega like product for Mac OSX.

 

[MacFly123]

While i don't disagree with the logic and do think will push their work in things like sproutcore into systems to replace flash and to develop near native web apps. I could even see them fostering a graphical development environment for sproutcore as part of the OS. After all if they can keep developers then the truck division will stay healthy and self supporting well in the future.

Is any of that really that new thou. Plus how does it shape how the consummer interacts with the product. That is what makes a revolution for Apple changing how people think about computers. A new kind of apps that have had a lot of work to make them just like other apps is a great thing for dev's. Just not something to grab the public.

I sure it's part of it but doesn't seem like the full story.

What i'm hoping is the big user facing change / feature for the users would be an end to files. That is files that exist in one place on one device. A system in which devices work together seemlessly. Yes we've seen this in movies but not in real life. Plus as others have noted the geek side of tech is there.

to me it would seem like there would be three pieces to this that Apples has been working on. One the part the various user interaction systems Cocoa and Cocoa touch for two styles of native plus sproutcore all based on Obj-C.

Part two the task engine Grand central and xgrid before after all if split tasks to run on different processors then you could do the reverse duplicate the task out to multiple devices processors so they all seem to be reacting to the same user input.

Part three would be something like a distributed version of Core Data. Like Core Data of now but not just for files in memory of one machine but across many machines. Sort of like Google Wave but i don't see any sign google understands how it could be really used.

All the parts would need experts in moving data over the web.

Elimination of the file structure is a controversial and sensitive move! Apple made a BIG push in that direction when the iPhone debuted with iPhone OS, and again with the iPad and iWork Mobile, and even iMovie Mobile.

It is a very uncomfortable thing for users. They have never known anything else. I am very tech savy, and even I am a little unsettled about it all. I have no problem with how iOS does things in that regard. For average general computing it doesn't bother me. But when I think of my video production and the heavy lifting work I do, I wonder what life would be like and if I would have as much control in a world of software like that! I guess I need to see before I become a believer. But iOS is a good starting point!

 

[saltyzoo]

When was this ever a feature of OS X, to have it "omitted"?

If you'll go back to what I said about the Option button + Zoom, it solves the problem of a window being too large on a MacBook display after last using it with with an external monitor. Resize from the lower-right corner from there. One key and a couple mouse clicks. The next time you open the application (depending on the individual application's developer), it should be exactly where it was the last time you last used it.

When I try to accomplish the same thing on a Windows box, I have to fish out the title bar to get the top left corner resized and move the window again (sometimes this takes two or three tries) in order to get it where I want it.

Once you are used to how window resizing works in OS X, you might just find it's as fast or faster than the Windows method. I know I do. And that's why I don't want the Mac OS team to copy the Windows version, if anything they ought to do a better job of explaining how this works from a Mac perspective.

BTW, that's also why I was so bent out of shape when some smartguy at Apple ignored the HIG and went off on his own and broke this for iTunes 9.1, thankfully it was quickly corrected in a patch release.

Omit. From the mac reference dictionary: leave out or exclude (someone or something), either intentionally or forgetfully : a significant detail was omitted from your story.

The word does nothing to imply it was there in the first place.

You obviously do not switch between an external monitor and no external monitor on a daily basis. You do not understand the problem, yet you know I'm wrong.

The ONLY reason this ability is not in the software is to be able to say that OSX isn't like windows. It's stupid, and it's petty, and it does effect users experience, whether they all care to admit it or not.

Now, please, we've both had our say, let's get back to the OP, I didn't expect to get into this fight, I was just making a silly point, lets move on.

 

[swagi]

Of course it makes sense. This is just another one of those niggling things that many people want but lord jobs doesn't.

It's not the end of the world not having it but it does create extra steps in the workflow. Dragging files from folder to another requires opening 2 finder windows as opposed to cutting the file then navigating to the paste location in the same window. Then the 2 finder overlap each other so you have to drag one out the way.

More irritating than a major design flaw, can't see how anyone can defend it though. It's as if some think Apple can do no wrong.

Errr...I don't know about your HDD-structure, i.e. how many folders and subfolders you keep on your machine.

But you know that you can use Exposé and spring-loaded folders perfectly for moving files?

You know, that you can drag the file to the left of your finder Window and then let spring-loaded folders do the job?

I don't see the point in 'cutting' a file and then navigating to the target folder, when I could just drag it there while navigating to the target location.

 

[swagi]

Why are you so defensive ? cmd+x and cmd+v. I can even get up from the computer between the cut and the paste. What is wrong with it ?

Why are Mac guys so against cut & paste in finder ? You do know you can have both at the same time...

Well, not to be defensive, but it's not Apple's stance.

Your argument for keyboard shortcuts using Cut&Paste in the Finder doesn't make any sense at all. There is only one situation, when your shortcut would make perfect sense.

This situation is using Finder in Tree View or Column View and just solely using keyboard shortcuts (Arrow keys, using Cmd+< for switching finder Windows, stuff like that).

Basically given that the majority of users should be encouraged to ditch the mouse and use solely the keyboard, your argument is justified.

Apple OTOH has always been about a graphical experience, about pointing, dragging, clicking. Apple is enhancing this experience with major design decisions, like using Cover Flow in the finder.

Now there is not only pointing and dragging, there is also flipping through folders. There's gestures. There is only limited keyboard action whatsoever.

Apple is encouraging the end user to ditch the keyboard for other uses than just - you know - text input.

So long story short: Your wish will not be granted by Apple, because they don't want you to use this method anyway.

 

[Garion]

Just idle speculation... How about a ground-up reengineering to reduce the footprint required by the OS in terms of memory, processing power, and storage? (This is what Microsoft has needed to do to Windows for years, but never got around to...) They could call it OS 10.7 Cub Leopard.

That's exactly what they did with the current version OS X Snow Leopard. They reduced it's footprint significally.

 

[Masquerade]

they're are building a morphing interface

whenver they detect your finger close to the screen, thru the proximity sensor, the user interface gets adjusted to the finger, the ui morphs lik a transformer

(apple, if you really lik it giv m a call) lol

 

[blybug]

Take a simple situation: You have a folder called "Vacation", and within it you have two folders, "Photos" and "Videos". Now you accidentally put everything in the "Photos" folder and you want to move the videos into the Videos folder. So you either go up one level, to "Vacation", and then Cmd + Double Click "Videos" to have it open in a separate window, then Double Click "Photos" AGAIN, then drag the videos from "Photos" to "Videos", or you can switch from whatever view you're in to any view that allows you to see multiple levels at the same time (I always use the normal icons view, so I always have to change this, and then when I'm done, change it back).

Or you could just choose Edit-->Undo Move

You do know there is already Copy & Paste of files...does just what you want then when your finished -Del the already-highlighted group of files you copied into the trash. I think Apple isn't going to go with the "Cut" paradigm for files in order to save the user from themselves. We've had the trashcan since the first Mac OS in 1984 so there's always an "extra step" before losing a file forever. "Cutting" a file has the potential for accidentally losing it for good.

 

[Zc456]

So they haven't forgotten about Mac OS X? Yay!!! However, me and Ubuntu already started dating. I still like the original non-touch iPod models though.

 

[backdraft]

I would move over to FreeBSD before I would go to linux. At least FreeBSD is incorporating Apple tech like launchd, llvm, grand central dispatch etc...

Install FreeBSD, xorg and gnome and give it a shot. Much more stable then Linux.

So they haven't forgotten about Mac OS X? Yay!!! However, me and Ubuntu already started dating. I still like the original non-touch iPod models though.

 

[Zc456]

I would move over to FreeBSD before I would go to linux. At least FreeBSD is incorporating Apple tech like launchd, llvm, grand central dispatch etc...

Install FreeBSD, xorg and gnome and give it a shot. Much more stable then Linux.

Thanks, but no thanks. A lot of what you mentioned Apple already open sourced. So it could easily be ported to Linux architecture without me needing to move to FreeBSD. Even if FreeBSD is more stable, I manged to give all mighty OS X a kernel panic more then once. So I'll stick with Ubuntu.

 

[KnightWRX]

This is hilarious! You said that my idea of completely integrating Mac OSX with Wine “isn't new and never seen before like this job posting wants.” Yet you're complaining about copying and pasting in the Finder? LOL!

Where did I whine about cut & paste ? I was simply responding to someone that said drag & drop was good enough. I was simply stating that cut & paste and drag & drop can both be present in finder without interfering with each other.

I never claimed or came close to calling cut & paste what this job posting was about.

You need to relax a bit.

To simplify it massively, its the differences in how NTFS and most UNIX filesystems work.

You've just dodged the question. Both filesystems treat the move operation in the same manner, by changing the attach point of the file's first inode in the filesystem's meta data. Hence why moving files within the same filesystem is instantaneous on both systems (and many others).

Moving between different filesystems, again, on both systems is a copy followed by an unlink.

I still don't see where you got your claim from. You will have to be more explicit than just "it is, because they are different".

Stop recommending WINE! At least have the decency to back up the company that sponsors it, then you can complain when it inevitably all goes to hell. I wish transgaming would make a Cedega like product for Mac OSX.

Uh ? Why should we back up companies that decide to profit off packaging an open source project more than we should just encourage the open source project directly ? Again, not much sense. The only reason to not recommend wine directly is because it is not for the fain of heart to build and configure initially.

And you're looking for Codeweavers. They package a Cedega like package for OS X (and for Linux too) called CrossOver Games.

Well, not to be defensive, but it's not Apple's stance.

Basically given that the majority of users should be encouraged to ditch the mouse and use solely the keyboard, your argument is justified.

Uh ? You could always right-click "cut" and right-click "copy" if using the keyboard is sooooo passe for you. Seriously, drag & drop and cut & paste are not mutually exclusive. There is nothing to get all defensive about, like you and many others are doing.

It's like an anti-cut&paste religion or something. It's quite baffling.

(apple, if you really lik it giv m a call) lol

I think you should fix your "e" key. It broke mid sentence.

"Cutting" a file has the potential for accidentally losing it for good.

All the graphical file managers I've used over the years (including Explorer, Konqueror, efm, Nautilus, Dolphin, name it...) don't do anything when you "cut" a file except change the graphic on its icon to show it is now "cut". If you forget you "cut" it and never paste it anywhere, the next morning, nothing happened to the file at all.

Why would "cutting" a file accidentally cause you to lose it ? It's the pasting that does something with the file, not the "cutting". Are you suggesting Apple would implement it differently in a way to cause such data loss by accident, ignoring about 20 years of GUI developpement in the process ?

 

[swagi]

Uh ? You could always right-click "cut" and right-click "copy" if using the keyboard is sooooo passe for you. Seriously, drag & drop and cut & paste are not mutually exclusive. There is nothing to get all defensive about, like you and many others are doing.

It's like an anti-cut&paste religion or something. It's quite baffling.

You got me wrong there. I was just arguing in the role of Apple. And they want you to stop worrying about folders and navigating through the finder.

I mean, seriously, did you ever take the time to browse through your iPhoto library? There is absolutely no structure in there, that let's you easily navigate through it. Apple encourages you, to solely use iPhote for the purpose of navigating through your photos.

Have you ever come across the inconsistency in iTunes? I mean, I have a folder in "shared" which I specified as iTunes music folder. Yet every single user account on my computer has a personal iTunes folder, in which the album artwork is stored. Fortunately the AAC and MP3-files reside in the shared folder.

These are two other 'design decisions' Apple did for you. Just like the omission of the cut&paste shortcut in Finder. I was defending that design decisions from Apple's pov.
<edit> I should add, that I personally hate iTunes' behavior with Album Art. And I've been a long time iPhoto hater due to that stupid and unintuitive structure of the iTunes library folder. If you want your iPhoto-stuff to be usable in other software than iLife, your better off exproting every picture to a dedicated folder on your drive and give it the structure you like. </edit>

I myself have no need for these shortcuts as they wouldn't help me reach my goal more efficient. I was just pointing to other workflows, that work more efficiently in my view (like Command-clicking the several files I want to move and dragging them to the destination folder). YMMV.

So to put a long post short: I'd personally suggest that you either try another workflow or use that nifty FEEDBACK-FORM on Apple's website.

But don't overhype that missing shortcut to be a major drawback in Mac OS X because it isn't.

 

[KnightWRX]

You got me wrong there. I was just arguing in the role of Apple. And they want you to stop worrying about folders and navigating through the finder.

I mean, seriously, did you ever take the time to browse through your iPhoto library? There is absolutely no structure in there, that let's you easily navigate through it. Apple encourages you, to solely use iPhote for the purpose of navigating through your photos.

Have you ? iPhoto organises things pretty neatly actually.

$ pwd
/Users/Name/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Data
$ ls
2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010
$ cd 2010/
$ ls
2010-02-18                        2010-06-18
2010-02-19                        2010-06-23
2010-02-21                        2010-07-02
2010-04-20                        2010-07-03
2010-05-05                        La ride "c'est trop court terme!"
2010-05-22                        New Dyna Sport Bob
2010-05-27                        New Hampshire, Hampton Beach
2010-06-12                        Nouvelle Subaru

See ? Stuff is either put in folders based on date or on the event name if you've named the events (I haven't named all my iPhoto events, hence the dates). It's basically I how did my folders before I let iPhoto manage my pictures.

Looks pretty organised to me. Unless Apple develops a GUI a la iTunes or iPhoto for any kind of data I might have, good old finder will always be useful (or in my case, bash. Seriously, quicker than clicking through iPhoto or the Finder). Also, I might mix and match data in folders, and so having to manage a single folder through 4-5 GUIs is pretty inept.

Apple is wrong in this case.

But don't overhype that missing shortcut to be a major drawback in Mac OS X because it isn't.

Now where did I say this ? Why are you people putting words in my mouth ? I just said people getting defensive against cmd+x and cmd+v in Finder are taking things a bit too far.

It would be a nice to have. For me ? mv/cp/rm in bash is all I need.

 

[D'Illusion]

Errr...I don't know about your HDD-structure, i.e. how many folders and subfolders you keep on your machine.

But you know that you can use Exposé and spring-loaded folders perfectly for moving files?

You know, that you can drag the file to the left of your finder Window and then let spring-loaded folders do the job?

I don't see the point in 'cutting' a file and then navigating to the target folder, when I could just drag it there while navigating to the target location.

I'm not interested in workarounds. Cut n Paste should be a feature.

 

[D'Illusion]

So long story short: Your wish will not be granted by Apple, because they don't want you to use this method anyway.

And herein lies the problem. I will decide how I want to use my computer, not Saint Steve.