Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Anyone else find the @icloud.com email address annoying?

I remember when gmail came about, it was by invitation only, and there was a mass exodus from @hotmail.com and @yahoo.com of people switching over to gmail because it was hip and better. I'd love to see the same thing happen for apple, the time is ripe for it to happen. Imagine if the address was @mail.com or @imail.com

Then we'd have all these people switching over to apple, not only would it strengthen the ecosystem (one password for everything), but it would get people to start using iwork and think of Apple as an enterprise company, sell more macs etc. and get them away from MS office.
 
Why has Google branched away from WebKit? It sounds like a move I would expect from Microsoft, as part of their typical "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" tactic for dealing with open source software and standards. It seems Google would rather you stopped using anything besides Chrome, but what does it gain them? Will they suddenly start integrating banner ads directly in Chrome?

Good question. I believe it was presented at the time as coming out of Google's frustration with the slow pace of evolution in Webkit and the difficulties of being a cross-platform framework. Google quickly rid their branch of Webkit of millions of lines of redundant code not needed by Chrome.

Of course, being more and more cynical about Google's motives over the last few years, I find myself wondering whether Google simply didn't want to invest development time in a framework used by Apple and partly guided by Apple to Apple's ends.

Google is now free to add innovations without fear that Apple could directly benefit.

I believe Apple and Google were the chief contributors to Webkit and so why would Google wish to invest time and money in a technology that Apple has cited on a number of occasions as the world's most popular browser engine? It just helps Apple promote a technology it largely founded.

Now Google can claim more "ownership" of its branch of Webkit and even where its version remains open source, there is still something proprietorial about Google's recent moves to claim its own branch.

The benefit for consumers is that there is more competition in the browser market, but actually I don't think that makes sense because people simply don't want to chop and change web browsers every five minutes. It's not like trying a different deli each week.

There's much more value in companies working together to innovate across open standards to ensure that everyone directly benefits from those innovations. This avoids fragmentation of approach in which no single browser engine includes all the innovations out there.

It can also mean a headache for designers and web app developers who must learn the differences between Chrome and Safari, which can only become more complicated as Google branches away from core Webkit.

Personally, I still use Safari, which is more native to me as a Mac user, remains pretty slick, and doesn't have that "heavy" feeling of Chrome that you get after intensive use. Having said that, Safari should be updated more often, needs to get really, really serious about performance and stability, and smarter memory management.

Mavericks seems to promise something along those lines.
 
Until another suite appears that has the power of VBA, Access and the ability for documents to both seek data and communicate between themselves with scripting, MSO is going to stay at the top.

I've worked for several large corporations now and not once have I seen this PDF conversion you are speaking of. People email around excel, word docs and mdb front ends or use corporate storage to move stuff around.

Your "nothing particularly powerful with office" comment is truly ignorant. Go read up on Access and VBA and come back to me after you have educated yourself a bit.

I don't think many Numbers users have ever worked with really large corporations. At least at the level where Access, VBA, SQL is used at a high level tier for business use. I think that's why they seem to don't understand how pathetically weak Numbers for any use besides home and small (mom and pop) business. When people come in and say they are great using numbers and not Excel, and we explain whats needed, you get that perplexed look in their eyes.
 
Until another suite appears that has the power of VBA, Access and the ability for documents to both seek data and communicate between themselves with scripting, MSO is going to stay at the top.

I've worked for several large corporations now and not once have I seen this PDF conversion you are speaking of. People email around excel, word docs and mdb front ends or use corporate storage to move stuff around.

Your "nothing particularly powerful with office" comment is truly ignorant. Go read up on Access and VBA and come back to me after you have educated yourself a bit.

You can keep your childish insults to your self and get off your high horse while you're at it. You're getting all worked up over an opinion about an office suite. Who are you, Steve Emballmer? My entire work involves heavily in the business world. Nice that you make the corporate world out to be a lot more than the reality. :rolleyes:
 
I don't think many Numbers users have ever worked with really large corporations. At least at the level where Access, VBA, SQL is used at a high level tier for business use. I think that's why they seem to don't understand how pathetically weak Numbers for any use besides home and small (mom and pop) business. When people come in and say they are great using numbers and not Excel, and we explain whats needed, you get that perplexed look in their eyes.

Yea, I mean we rolled down Access/Excel programs to our front liners and agents (callcenter) and developed a simple ui in Access that just displayed their statistics based on their AD login. VBA, Access and Excel are extremely powerful. What I get with numbers is a basic spreadsheet with the ability to make a chart. Not even close...

----------

You can keep your childish insults to your self and get off your high horse while you're at it. You're getting all worked up over an opinion about an office suite. Who are you, Steve Emballmer? My entire work involves heavily in the business world. Nice that you make the corporate world out to be a lot more than the reality. :rolleyes:

I guess I just fabricated all this high end DB, Excel and VBA work in my mind in my last few analyst jobs I worked at. We could have totally gotten by with a weak office suite like iWork or Google Documents. Oh yea and when people were emailing documents around they were all just detailed PDFs and I was mistaken. :rolleyes:
 
iWork for iCloud is a good start. I can still access the entire suite, so they evidently aren't quite as overwhelmed as this (temporary?) notice implies.

For the vast majority of people, I think the iWork suite works really well in both desktop and web incarnations.

Sure, it doesn't have the advanced features like bibliographic and statistical analysis tools you can find in Word and Excel respectively, but I guess most people can do much of what they need to in Pages and Numbers without requiring any other apps -- though there's always room to use other apps for specialised work on the Mac or iPhone.

I like the way iWork streamlines features to what most people need much of the time, but of course it would be a boon for professional and "power" users to have access to plugins that extend the native functionality of the iWork apps.

That would introduce another problem, though: allowing you to seamlessly access, edit and share iWork documents on the web, through the iOS apps and on the desktop. Difficult to imagine third parties being permitted to modify native functionality across all platforms.

As to sharing links to Numbers spreadsheets to catch up with Google Drive spreadsheets, well I found this help note on the Numbers web app that indicates at least some basic sharing is upcoming:

Apple does allow plugins for iWork, but it's totally undocumented. I have so many plugin ideas for iWork, and I've probably spent 100 hours by now trying to reverse engineer the system, but I've not been able to get anything to run. I've reached out to other plugin authors but couldn't get ahold of any of them (they all work for big companies with close ties to Apple.)
 
Now icloud needs some sharing features (as in "upload a pdf and share a public/private link) and the icloud ecosystem could become better than the stuff google offers.
 
Both iWork and Office have deficiencies that really bust my nuts every times I use them.

iWork does not have the indexing functions of Office, which are not advanced functions IMO as everyone who writes longer reports uses these (or should use these). Some of the Inspector functions are also a pain to use. Numbers is less powerful than Excel and Keynote is lacking some really useful functions such as connectors between shapes that branch or are sharply angled.

With Office I get frustrated by the depth of options menu's. Trying to format a different index structure is a pain and you never know where a change in an option somewhere doesn't affect an entirely different feature somewhere else. It is utterly unreliable. Word is unstable when the file-size gets large (I have a monster of a Mac, but it can't handle file sizes larger than 150 Mb without crashing. Page numbers don't print depending on the way you make them. Captioning doesn't function properly with larger captions etc etc etc. Options are all over the place. The templates are all horribly ugly and unusable. The web-templates are even worse...

Now, there are solutions for most of these issues, but only after long searches on the web. It shouldn't be like this.

Both packages have their drawbacks and advantages, but neither is perfect.

I dream of a possibility to get a bare-bones package that only contains word-processing features, to which you can tack on additional functions at will through a menu. That way you can cut out all the bloat features you don't use and keep it lean and usable.
 
Numbers is THE killer app I rely on. So glad someone ditched the Excel rut and made something new for people without prior habits they need to stick to. It does what I need so much better and faster than Excel, with so much less learning curve.

I probably use it, compared to Excel, the same way people you describe might use Pages compared to the full bloat of Word.

The other iWork apps are nice but I rarely touch them.

Just one example: try pivot tables in numbers

Numbers is good enough for adding up your grocery list - thats about it. Same as pages is good to write a few notes, nothing more spectacular.
 
Just one example: try pivot tables in numbers

Numbers is good enough for adding up your grocery list - thats about it. Same as pages is good to write a few notes, nothing more spectacular.

Numbers drives me nuts. I upgraded to ML recently and had a pretty old version of Office.

"Simple" things, that were a one or two click operation in Excel I can't figure out half the time in Numbers. Cell borders. Cell Fill. And they don't seem to stick. Is there a keystroke to repeat the format (which I think is cmd-Y in Excel). I do believe I've found the one click for cell fill, but again, the color I used doesn't stick.

And don't even get me started on the damn save as feature. Again, more keystokes to do the same thing.

I can't drop an image into a Numbers sheet unless there was one in the old Excel sheet. Otherwise it smooshes it into one cell.

I'm sure there are ways around some of my problems, but I don't have a lot of spare time to figure them out. Until I can find an older copy of Excel that works on ML, I just work on my G4 desktop.

I'm a little more forgiving with Pages, as I really don't do a lot of formatting for writing. But spreadsheets - UGH! To be fair, I absolutely hate the Office ribbon bar even after all this time. Menus are SO much easier.
 
Keynote converts PowerPoint file to PDF better than PowerPoint!

A tragic problem with MS PowerPoint is that when the presentation is exported as a PDF, many web links in the PDF are not clickable. It is a known problem with all versions of PP and MS has not done anything to address it. See for example http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/mac/forum/macoffice2011-macpowerpoint/word-power-point-conversion-to-pdf-hyperlinks-do/60500f60-3d14-4d34-aa61-ed1409609136

My workaround has been to import the PP file into Keynote and export it as a PDF. This works beautifully with both the desktop app and the iCloud version of Keynote.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.