Apple Lobbying for International Tax Amnesty to Bring Home Profits

[zugvogel]

Raise taxes on Apple, they raise the cost of their computers to keep profits up. ... The Feed company of America uses Apple computers, they have to raise the price of feed so they can pay for the new computer system. Farmer Brown's feed cost goes up so he has to charge more for eggs and bacon...

In my humble opinion, I don't think this works in practise, although the theory seems sound.

Companies are not usually operating on such a thin margin that a change in the tax-rate necessitates a change in the price of the product - especially Apple.

In contrast, it seems to me that a decrease in the tax rate just helps increase the salaries of those in control (ie, those who are already rich) - there is no incentive to pass this on to those lower down in the company who are simply thankful for having a job, or to customers who have already shown that they are willing to pay the current price.

So while I think this economic theory is good, in practise I don't think it's as effective as you might think. My impression is that such a theory is often promoted strongly without any caveat by big businesses and the rich, who stand to benefit.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Yup, the USPS sure is doing well. Somehow they overpaid its FERS 6.9 billion dollars and it plans on losing another 8 billion this year. Good thing they are closing around 2000 post offices to help prevent breaking 2010's record $8.5 billion in losses.

News sources are a poor substitute for the truth these days as they only talk about the sensational headlines, NOT the underlying FACTS of the matter. I know a lot of people that work at the USPS and have family working there.

Try looking up how much the USPS overpaid into the health care pre-funding (estimates range from $30 BILLION to over $75 BILLION, not 6.9 Billion). Try looking up how many years the USPS earned Billions in profit and the treasury department raided those profits so they could pay down the deficit with it (thus all profits earned magically disappear and cannot be used to pad the expenses in the following year). Try looking up what the profit margins would be if the Bush administration law known as the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006 (which was passed by a Republican Congress and signed by a Republican president) requiring the USPS (no other government agency has this requirement) to fully pre-fund their health care for future retirees in advance. These aren't routinely figured into the numbers posted by most news articles these days.

The USPS would have been in the black the past three years in the middle of a recession and the loss of a lot of 1st class mail to e-mail, etc. Look at how postal rate increases MUST be approved by a committee outside the USPS. They cannot make quick changes to market changes like gas prices like UPS and Federal Express can. Now look at the profits of UPS and Federal Express the past couple of years and how much they've hiked prices. Now compare their prices to the USPS.

You've done NONE of that and yet you talk like you know all about the USPS. You don't seem to know a thing. Or perhaps you do and are purposely distorting the truth? Your article from the United Liberty web site isn't even news. It's a Republican tirade to privatize government (in this case the Post Office, which would get the favorable parts cut up and the rest dumped, leaving America without reliable mail delivery to every address).

FYI, the push to end Saturday delivery is the first step the Republicans want to make the Post Office fail against its competition so that it can be piece-meal cut up to make more profit for America's greedy (that's what the Republicans do to everything they get their hands on). It's why health care costs are so darn high. They demand PROFIT from you getting sick.

Here's a few articles that do address some of these things unlike yours:

(overpaid $75 BILLION into retirement)

http://directmag.com/postal/0122-postal-usps/

(overpaid $50-55 BILLION)

http://www.postalreporternews.net/2...-usps-overpaid-50-billion-to-retirement-fund/

(Prefunding Articles)

http://www.plansponsor.com/Post_Office_Says_PreFunding_Retiree_Health_Care_is_Reason_for_Loss.aspx

http://www.postalnewsblog.com/2010/12/01/oig-calls-for-reduced-prefunding-requirements/

http://www.hillbillyreport.org/diary/562/republican-incompetence-crashed-the-post-office-too

 

[JoeG4]

Compared to most people's b!tching and whining, I think USPS is a fantastic courier service. Every single last time I've ever sent a package, I compare rates between USPS, UPS, FedEx and they are ALWAYS the cheapest.

Likewise, that $7 priority mail package that would've cost me $14 to send UPS ground, arrives in 3 days tops - vs taking a week or so.

Why? Because the USPS is run by a guy that is being grilled left and right by investigators and will probably be kicked out for "fraud" although he makes roughly $200k a year (pulling the figure out of my ass). Meanwhile, the CEO of USPS and the CEO of FedEx are both millionaires that get a huge fortune in yearly revenue and bonuses.

Despite this, USPS workers are treated like kings and queens and sit around - something they're famous for. When was the last time you heard a UPS or FedEx employee sitting around getting paid pretty good to do nothing? And yet USPS does a better job rather regularly.

As for rich people dumping money into the economy.. where? They drive Bentleys, Rolls Royces, Mercedes, Audi - they buy European furniture, love Japanese and Italian food, buy clothing made entirely in other countries, by companies that have never had any representation other than storefronts in the US.

Really though, I think Apple needs to put up or shut up - Steve Jobs should be asked how much of that money he intends to put back into our economy (and how). What? Open another store hiring a bunch of minimum wage employees? Hrm. Whopee.

The company is essentially the richest company in the US right now. They should be publicly shamed for not hiring more people in the US. Hell, they could get a marketing boost from showing that their iPhones are made in the US or something - and they wouldn't have to worry about their precious prototypes randomly leaking on foreign sites.

 

[AidenShaw]

Hell, they could get a marketing boost from showing that their iPhones are made in the US or something - and they wouldn't have to worry about their precious prototypes randomly leaking on foreign sites.

Would they have to prohibit employees from visiting German brew-pubs?

 

[hotrock3]

News sources are a poor substitute for the truth these days as they only talk about the sensational headlines, NOT the underlying FACTS of the matter. I know a lot of people that work at the USPS and have family working there.

Try looking up how much the USPS overpaid into the health care pre-funding (estimates range from $30 BILLION to over $75 BILLION, not 6.9 Billion). Try looking up how many years the USPS earned Billions in profit and the treasury department raided those profits so they could pay down the deficit with it (thus all profits earned magically disappear and cannot be used to pad the expenses in the following year). Try looking up what the profit margins would be if the Bush administration law known as the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006 (which was passed by a Republican Congress and signed by a Republican president) requiring the USPS (no other government agency has this requirement) to fully pre-fund their health care for future retirees in advance. These aren't routinely figured into the numbers posted by most news articles these days.

The USPS would have been in the black the past three years in the middle of a recession and the loss of a lot of 1st class mail to e-mail, etc. Look at how postal rate increases MUST be approved by a committee outside the USPS. They cannot make quick changes to market changes like gas prices like UPS and Federal Express can. Now look at the profits of UPS and Federal Express the past couple of years and how much they've hiked prices. Now compare their prices to the USPS.

You've done NONE of that and yet you talk like you know all about the USPS. You don't seem to know a thing. Or perhaps you do and are purposely distorting the truth? Your article from the United Liberty web site isn't even news. It's a Republican tirade to privatize government (in this case the Post Office, which would get the favorable parts cut up and the rest dumped, leaving America without reliable mail delivery to every address).

FYI, the push to end Saturday delivery is the first step the Republicans want to make the Post Office fail against its competition so that it can be piece-meal cut up to make more profit for America's greedy (that's what the Republicans do to everything they get their hands on). It's why health care costs are so darn high. They demand PROFIT from you getting sick.

Here's a few articles that do address some of these things unlike yours:

(overpaid $75 BILLION into retirement)

http://directmag.com/postal/0122-postal-usps/

(overpaid $50-55 BILLION)

http://www.postalreporternews.net/2...-usps-overpaid-50-billion-to-retirement-fund/

(Prefunding Articles)

http://www.plansponsor.com/Post_Office_Says_PreFunding_Retiree_Health_Care_is_Reason_for_Loss.aspx

http://www.postalnewsblog.com/2010/12/01/oig-calls-for-reduced-prefunding-requirements/

http://www.hillbillyreport.org/diary/562/republican-incompetence-crashed-the-post-office-too

I never claimed to know everything, and you have made good points. Seems like the government has screwed over the government by requiring prefunding. I guess we should change the way the government works. I'm more than happy to help do it if it means they work more efficiently.

Only problem I have with your post, albeit a small one, is that you belittle one of my sources because of a bias but yet you pick http://www.hillbillyreport.org as one of yours.

 

[pizzacake]

Who said anything about them pouring it into our economy (other than the proposed 5%)? Apple and these other companies routinely outsource jobs to other countries. They do not spend it here or pour it into the economy. They might invest in buying out other companies or perhaps opening a store here or something, but the idea that they are going to invest that money directly into the U.S. economy is ludicrous, IMO. They are hoarding it now and they will hoard it then as well. If they want to bring it here so badly, they obvious have an intention for it. If it were to help the U.S. economy, they wouldn't be so opposed to paying their taxes.



And I already suggested that these people that want that money here should move overseas so they can spend their money there. They clearly want to bring it back here for a reason. They don't want to leave the country to spend it (or have someone else spend it for them overseas where it does them little good on any kind of personal level. I want my fancy new office building HERE not in Vietnam because I don't want to live in Vietnam, but in perhaps California or Oregon and I'll be working at that new ultra-modern facility. No, I'm stuck here with the old building because I can't bring my money in without paying taxes and I don't want to move there. So sad.)



So your entire opinion of the government is based on the DMV (which is state level)? The Federal Reserve is private. Are they doing a good job? What about Wall Street and all those cheating banks that failed we had to prop up? Most of the government agencies in question are out of touch for a reason and unlike a private company that can go bankrupt or move to China is times are tough, the government has to keep on operating. Then there's the matter of the scum-bag politicians running much of government. There's a reason it's inefficient.

Now if you take a look at the Post Office (which is self-sufficient and not based on taxes), it has been doing wonders considering the onerous pre-funding tax burden placed on it by Congress under the Republicans under Bush (otherwise it would have been in the black even in the worst part of the recession). Its package prices are a far better deal than both UPS and Federal Express and yet it manages to deliver 1st class mail to every single address in the entire United States in a VERY timely manner. If it were privatized, companies like UPS wouldn't touch the mail delivery to every address with a 100 foot pole. They would charge massive over-fees or force people to travel long-distances to get their mail at a post office box and prices would go up constantly as gas fluctuates, etc. You have no idea how efficient the Post Office is despite some of its more arcane management practices and how poorly much of management treats the carriers who have to trudge through every kind of weather condition to every address in the country. Some of these people are heroes and yet you have people in certain parties in the government that would cut them down to minimum wage if they could and divide up the lucrative parts of the business and sell it to their friends. They would destroy collective bargaining and return working conditions to pre-OSHA, unsafe and unmonitored status all in the name of making money off it for themselves, not delivering a SERVICE to the country. Who would think to privatize the military? That's been tried as well in small areas (i.e. Blackwater) and look what trouble they got themselves into in IRAQ.

Take a look at regulation of public utilities and the before and after and see where consumer prices fall. I think you'll find de-regulation from government control means HIGHER prices for the consumer, not lower prices (because now they need to turn huge profits and they cannot do that without raising prices!). Look at health care. If you want to turn large profits at insurance companies and hospitals alike, you have to take steps to maximize profits, whether that means denying services (insurance) or massively over-charging for things like aspirin and all kinds of other nonsensical fees (hospitals).

Private holdings for profit is not always best. It works where there is true free-market competition and it's ethical when it doesn't involve denying basic life necessities or care in order to turn a profit.

Maybe some day people will realize that there is more to life than just money and that a world full of people that only look after themselves isn't such a great place to live in.

Well said.

 

[pizzacake]

Apple can shut the #$#@ up and pay their taxes. The advantages of being based in this country and the responsibilities of being based in this country go hand in hand. When I get my paycheck, I don't argue with the government over my tax rate because I "earned" the money. Earning the money does not erase my responsibility as a citizen to pay taxes on it. A few other points:

- Just because something is legal in America doesn't mean it isn't corrupt and wrong. Hiring lobbyists so they can legally dodge their taxes doesn't mean they're not dodging their taxes. The American people get screwed on the deal regardless of how legal those corporate puppets in Congress proclaim it to be.

- 5% versus 35%. Do they have anything concrete to offer the American people in exchange for this possible reduction of funds going into programs like Social Security and Medicare, you know, things that provide services like healthcare to poor people? Remember poor people? The ones who can't afford to fly across the country at a moment's notice in their private jet for an organ transplant?

- Here's a company that's famous for sitting on cash and not putting it back into the economy, asking for a tax break so that it can have more cash, and claiming they're going to put it back into the economy. In what twisted netherworld of bass-akwards logic does this make any sense? "Hi, I'm the medical doctor that is famous for not dispensing medical supplies. I deserve to have more medical supplies, so that I can dispense them to people." How about we find the company/doctor that IS putting money into the economy/dispensing medical supplies, and give them what they need? Instead of just pouring the money down a black hole of corporate greed and corruption?

- This is the legacy of the great Apple, who made computers usable for the average person instead of the professional geek? Overpriced luxury goods, closed ecosystems, anti-competitive behavior, and ruthless corporate greed? This company is not your friend, people. It is a very big fish in the sea of capitalism. The products make you feel warm and fuzzy because that's what gets you to buy the products, which is what makes money for the shareholders, which is what Apple is legally required to do. That's the system. It breeds corruption. Apple is not immune.

spot on!

 

[reden]

I can imagine this being fairly contentious. On the one hand - it would be great for the US economy to have that kind of cash injection. On the other - why should the 'rich' pay less tax; while the poor pay more?

Because the wealthy end up carrying the poor through civil development at the end of the day.