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it's obvious that Apple has intentionally crippled
No, it is not.

These units (Mx+memory) are being space limited. Apple is intentionally shrinking as much as possible. Reducing space and power requirements is how mobile devices will do better with battery capacity.

It is rather clear that the mobile requirements (phone, laptops) are wagging the tail here. Desktops use what was designed for the mobile devices (the Ultra excepted, but it so far has simply been a kluge of putting together two units designed for mobile computing.)
 
Has this got anything to do with Apple buying the TSMC N3B process rather than the upcoming N3E process? Seems like N3B is more expensive with lower yields hence Apple trimming for cost savings.

Seems a bit strange rushing this out of the gate 10 months after the M2? Apple appeared to be the only manufacturer taking up N3B.

Exactly my question. Makes me wonder if a 3M"S" gets released in a year based on the N3E process.
 
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Exactly. My work Lenovo has 16GB of RAM, and my 8GB M1 still smokes it. The Lenovo is sitting right next to me right now, with a screen not bright enough to comfortably use it at this spot (my kitchen), while my no-fans MBA doesn't even have the brightness all the way up. If I actually start using the Lenovo, the fans will turn on and the screen will dim even further after an hour or so. I'll take a good screen over more RAM 7 days a week. I can wait 3 more seconds for my Excel sheet to load (which is theoretical, because it's actually faster!), but I can't just wait for the Lenovo screen to get brighter. Some people have a "base level" of RAM that they feel they need. I have a "base level" of physical qualities of the computer, that I simply cannot find a Windows PC that meets, regardless of price. Apple "should" give us 16GB as standard? OK, I'll start complaining about that when the competitors give me good screens, a touchpad that actually feels good to use, no fan-noise, decent speakers, and a battery that gets me through the day. And that's just the hardware.

If 16GB was standard, the moaners would just moan about something else, because they are not computer enthusiasts, but moaning enthusiasts.

Rant over (for now).
Apple can choose to give you both. They just know that certain people loves the little bone that Apple gives their users.
 
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Form Samsung's own splash page for its LpDDR chips:

The cutting-edge speed enables huge transfers to be made at 51.2 GB/s.

The M3 Pro images (of the package w/ lpDDR5 memory) show only three, not four, memory units.

51.2 x 3 = 153.6 GB/s .

If only people would try to understand these things before ranting.

As I noted in the previous post, it is clear that Apple is designing their product line with mobile devices in mind. Thus the reduction in space, thus fewer items on a board, thus fewer memory chips surrounding an ever shrinking central processing units.

The age of the DIMMs are over. Just accept that. The LpDDR5 memory that Apple is using consume much less energy than the DDR4 DIMMs you put in that old iMac.
 
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I really don’t see how any of this matters that much if it’s still 10-15% faster than the M2. Moreover…absolutely no one but forum browsing techies are going to upgrade from an M2 machine. There’s a reason they targeted M1 and older Intel users in the event…because those are the kind of people that will be buying a new computer. Personally my M1 Pro 14” was overpowered for my needs and still is; I’m sure I could get 5+ years out of it.
 
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The real target are not for people that recently purchased an M2 or necessarily even an M1 - the target are older Intel Mac users. I noticed that they mentioned that a number of times to encourage people to upgrade.

I would love an M2/M3 MacBook Pro to replace my quad core, I9 Intel MacBook Pro so I never have to listen to the fans again but I need to run virtual machines locally on it - and it’s not possible for me to do what I need on Apple Silicon. In any case, my 3 year old MacBook Pro still works great and looks like new.
 
I love my M1 Pro 14" (10/16). I don't know anyone using those chips that feel like they are lacking performance two years out. All these M-series chips are fantastic.
 
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I'm on a 2014 MBP i7. It's showing signs of breaking down but still runs perfectly for my needs. I've been waiting for the M3 Pro/Max to come out to upgrade. Will be doing my usual wait a few months, see how things fair before I consider pulling the trigger. Give me those benchmarks. Curious to see how this factors in.
 
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Apple stiffing the rest of the world on pricing again... £2,099 for the M3 Pro MacBook Pro, which is $2,555. Meanwhile, it's $2,646 in the EU. And yes, I know US prices don't include tax, but tax doesn't account for that disparity.
 
Apple stiffing the rest of the world on pricing again... £2,099 for the M3 Pro MacBook Pro, which is $2,555. Meanwhile, it's $2,646 in the EU. And yes, I know US prices don't include tax, but tax doesn't account for that disparity.
I compared the prices and they generally upped it in France by about 100€ relative to M2 chips.
 
The reduction in bandwidth can be attributed to, surprise (or not), the number of RAM chips used in the SoC’s package. Similar to how two flash storage chips are about twice as fast as one, the chips with 150GB/s have only 3 RAM chips versus 4 for the 200GB/s chips. This also explains the weird behavior of the picker when upgrading SoC’s in the buying window. Some RAM configurations simply aren’t available with different core options, so some are grayed out while others will jump around when you choose your core counts, increasing or decreasing the total price by more than you’d expect.

For instance, I went from a binned M3 Max to a full M3 Max. It jumped RAM amounts, going from 36GB to 48GB. 36GB configs have three 12GB chips while the the 48GB configs have four chips and a higher resulting bandwidth. The M3 family certainly is a lot more confusing to the average person than the prior generations, but I’ve heard a good explanation for this. Apparently, since the M3 family is clearly based on the A17 Pro and not the A16 which we were expecting (M1 based on A14, M2 based on A15, M3 based on A17 Pro, skipping a generation), it is using the quirky and not quite fully reliable N3B TSMC process, which has a lot of yield issues. The higher number of chip configurations is likely due to the large number of bad yields, resulting in more binning options. Once Apple uses the N3E process, due to start mass production at the end of the year, we’ll see better yields and probably fewer binned options.
 
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Yes! But, I still argue there is a big difference between complaining about the price of a good computer, versus complaining that the computer is bad (for you).

One year after you spent the money, you forgot that you ever had them (unless you are in a financial position where you shouldn't be contemplating buying a Mac anyway). One year after you buy the wrong computer, you still have the wrong computer.

I guess I'm just tired of hearing the same old "Apple is expensive" moaning, every time they launch a product. If it wasn't worth the price, you wouldn't be moaning about the cost.
Eh, people will preach. I just try to ignore the noise.
 
Wondering if I should stay with my Mac Pro 2019 tower for a couple more years before I switch over to the M series chips
Do you need the Intel for any reason? Otherwise a pro laptop is faster than that. Buy one and get a new desktop in a couple years.
 
Do you need the Intel for any reason? Otherwise a pro laptop is faster than that. Buy one and get a new desktop in a couple years.
I would say the best reason to keep around an Intel Mac is for Boot Camp. While Microsoft does have an ARM version of Windows 11 that can run in Parallels or Crossover, etc. the vast majority of Windows programs are still written for x86/x64. That ARM version of Windows has an x86/x64 translator/emulator that will slow down the performance of programs written for the Intel instruction set. Apple has its equivalent in Rosetta 2 to translate programs written for Intel. If you want faster running Windows programs, the 2019 Intel Macs are the way to go. Otherwise, I see no advantages to Intel over Apple Silicon unless the Intel model still serves you well and you can’t afford an upgrade.
 
Interesting... I don't know nearly enough to make the following statement, but is it possible that Apple's M-series chips are a one trick pony? Have they already reached the limitations of the design and are just left with playing around with tradeoffs at this point? One would hope not...
I would say no, ARM is still the way to go for future processors. CISC was considered rather dead for a while with Intel wallowing in bad chips with mediocre performance gains year on year. Intel took some rather big performance jumps in the last two generations for two reasons: one is that they abandoned their own 10nm and 7nm processes and went with TSMC to make their chips, and two, they started adopting ARM approaches in their chip design, such as creating p-cores and e-cores. In prior designs, they used only what we would consider p-cores. Intel is moving towards ARM-like processes because it’s the only way they can find to increase performance. They were pretty much dead-ended otherwise.

Apple can only switch away from crap Intel processors once and get gigantic gains. People got spoiled by the switch from Intel processors to the M1 but have issues with 15-20% generational gains between the M-series chips. One thing Apple has yet to do is to fully go with ARM V9 architecture, though it can be argued that their own flavor of ARM takes a lot from ARM V9, so going fully to it won’t be as dramatic as some think. There’s nothing wrong with the architecture. People simply cannot expect 2x+ performance gains every generation.

The current quirkiness of having slower RAM bandwidth has more to do with binning and design decisions than a limitation of the architecture. I have a post a few above this one that explains more about that.
 
The new MacBook Pro models are available to order now, and they will begin arriving to customers and launch in stores on Tuesday, November 7. Be sure to check out our MacBook Pro announcement coverage for all the details.
If the M3 really is faster than M2 at a given level (and we'll know once it's tested, not before), this represents some interesting optimizations based on a greater understanding of how the computers work in the field. I'm actually impressed.
 
Was not the M3 expected to be an architecture step? My biggest concern when the more or less fantastic M1 was released that it would hard to scale things up. And it seems like so. Intel and AMD have made huge steps and are now a lot faster than apple. (But way less efficient). But this wont do in the long run, they need to keep up with competition.
They aren’t a lot faster in any mobile chip. The single threaded scores for M3 should be good. M3 Max should be good. It seems that Apple took M3 Pro in a different direction. It’s more of a souped up M3 rather than an M3 Max Lite.
 
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Interesting... I don't know nearly enough to make the following statement, but is it possible that Apple's M-series chips are a one trick pony? Have they already reached the limitations of the design and are just left with playing around with tradeoffs at this point? One would hope not...
I doubt it. Probably the bigger issue is that Apple lost some of its top engineers to Nuvia, who are now part of Qualcomm. The SnapDragon X Elite looks good on paper. Perhaps Apple just needs to lure a few engineers back.
 
If game developers port AAA titles to Macs, then consider me a day 1 buyer of Mac Studio with M3 Max (from Mac Mini M1). I don’t mind buying a Mac for $3k because I know it’s longevity (5+ years). I do mind paying that for a PC because they just don’t last. My work laptop (Lenovo) is a testament to that - 2-3 years shelf life.
Don't hold your breath on this one.
 
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