Apple MacBrick (concept)

[strausd]

Thunderbolt is not a replacement for a mac pro. It can only handle today's medium range graphics cards. What happens if you want graphics and extra storage and something else? You are stuffed. That's what.

You're wrong.

If you want more than 5 internal harddrives in a MP you are screwed too. Get a thunderbolt enclosure that can hold just as many hard drives. Daisy chain them and bam, no need for internal storage because you have thunderbolt that provides the same speed. Whats the benefit of internal storage anyways? A thunderbolt enclosure would stay in the same place much like a Mac Pro. And as of right now it can only handle medium range GPUs. But consider that thunderbolt is a baby right now and is still growing.

 

[derbothaus]

You're wrong.

If you want more than 5 internal harddrives in a MP you are screwed too.

Uh. Pull out your Superdrives. Viola', 6 HD's! MP has 6 SATAII connects.
TB is great. Not putting it down at all. Also not too bummed I don't have it right now. Seeing as I will never buy a LaCie product again, the options are severely limited. Also HDD sleep cycles would need to be adjusted on the case for me to really rely on an external solution.

 

[strausd]

Uh. Pull out your Superdrives. Viola', 6 HD's! MP has 6 SATAII connects.
TB is great. Not putting it down at all. Also not too bummed I don't have it right now. Seeing as I will never buy a LaCie product again, the options are severely limited. Also HDD sleep cycles would need to be adjusted on the case for me to really rely on an external solution.

Well you can do the same for a MBP too! So then there is another option for internal storage! Also, most people wouldn't take their optical drive to have 6 hard drives. I'll take that back if you tell me that you have no internal optical drives because a sixth internal hard drive was more important so you wouldn't have to buy a single external hard drive.

Also, there is a thunderbolt option for housing 6 drives. So if your only need is storage, then you get one of those and a MBP, or heck, even a MBA or Mac Mini, and it will take up considerably less space than a MP. Say you need more than 6 drives, you will have to go external on a MP. On a MBP, MBA, or Mac Mini, just add another thunderbolt enclosure and hook it up to your previous one.

 

[derbothaus]

Well you can do the same for a MBP too! So then there is another option for internal storage! Also, most people wouldn't take their optical drive to have 6 hard drives. I'll take that back if you tell me that you have no internal optical drives because a sixth internal hard drive was more important so you wouldn't have to buy a single external hard drive.

Nope. I need to make Discs. I have 1xSuperdrive up top and my SSD boot below. A 600GB velociraptor, 1TB Samsung F3 for Win 7 and a 2TB Caviar Green for backups and media. But I could just as easily use an eternal DVD drive. It came with the superdrive and I personally don't need more storage than can fit in the sled trays. Maybe next year.

 

[Sagaris]

Nope. I need to make Discs. I have 1xSuperdrive up top and my SSD boot below. A 600GB velociraptor, 1TB Samsung F3 for Win 7 and a 2TB Caviar Green for backups and media. But I could just as easily use an eternal DVD drive. It came with the superdrive and I personally don't need more storage than can fit in the sled trays. Maybe next year.

It's not about communications with peripherals, it's about distributed desktop computing. It may be not a blocks, but blades - Array of Inexpensive Computing Blades (Blocks).

 

[ProVideo]

Saying pros could move to macbook pros and mac minis using thunderbolt are ignoring processors and RAM. Unless Apple finds a way to cram 12 cores and 16GB+ of ram into a mac mini, they will be smoked by PC Workstations. If this happens, expect medium to large companies and universities that rely on MacPros to switch to PCs in droves.

This brings to mind what Jobs talked about here at 4:00. Once Apple abandons the MacPro, developers of professional software like Adobe, Digidesign, and Autodesk will likely abandon developing for the Mac if it doesn't make sense because of the small and limited prosumer base. If this happens, the people who use Macs for work everyday will switch to Windows or Linux and then will likely switch to Windows for home PCs. After that they will question why they are in the Apple/Mac/iOS ecosystem as a whole. This will do a disservice to the Mac and Apple and cause them to lose a bit of their luster when almost nothing in print, video, film, and music is being made on a mac.

Creative pros have been in Apple's DNA since the start and abandoning them is not going to be good for them in the long term, unless they are fine with becoming Nintendo in a decade.

 

[Sagaris]

After that question why they are in the Apple/Mac/iOS ecosystem as a whole.

I agree with you about that. Vendor ecosystem is nailed to market with two nails at both ends of customer competence - highest and lowest. And while this nails are strong, Pros are confident because of consumer base, and consumers are happy with Pros base. But take one nail off and everything will turn to other end (and fall if that nail isn't good enough).

I mean, that throughout line of products from consumer to hi-end pro, give all customers confidence about vendors stability and balance. Look at consumer only vendors. I will never buy their top products, because they have no top technologies above. This is like having it's own Formula 1 racing team for car manufacturer. It's not profitable enough by itself, but if you quit, you'll loose you position at market at all.

 

[Vylen]

Nice idea but counterintuitive to basic computer design. Whilst the Mac Pro is monolithic with the amount of things stashed inside, there's reason for things such as motherboards being designed the way they are - i.e. why the CPU is where it is, and why RAM and other on-board chips are as close enough to the CPU as possible (whilst things like HDD's and ODD can be placed on a long cable).It's to reduce latency and increase efficiency. It's also why CPU's are getting faster with the smaller fabrication process - by packing things in, they can put more in a smaller space and reduce latency and increase speed.

Thunderbolt might solve that for low to mid range devices where speed isn't critical for now but it still wont beat having everything inside a single enclosure on a single board.

But I guess no one will really notice... consumers would be all "check out my fantastic modular brick!" - of course the benchmarkers will notice though, but they're not real people

 

[Sagaris]

Nice idea but counterintuitive to basic computer design.

And if we just daisy chain several Mac Minis, set them each atop other and still have one Mac OS X with multiplied performance? Whats about this perspective?

 

[Thetonyk123]

Cool idea in theory. However I think most users are looking for...

Solution = Sandy Bridge Mac Pro

Hoping for that.

 

[Sagaris]

Cool idea in theory. However I think most users are looking for...

Apple users are always looking for reliable, easy to use and pleasant to touch product. Never matter what's inside (because Apple matters).

 

[Budokan]

And if we just daisy chain several Mac Minis, set them each atop other and still have one Mac OS X with multiplied performance? Whats about this perspective?

Who will be the Apple's target user for such "mini-tower"? That will ruin the Apple's design differentiation - mini's for "Exactly what you need. And nothing you don’t" (c) and iMac's for "All-in-one simplicity" (c). As for Mac Pro users with their "Expansion made easy" and "Designed to be custom designed" (c) systems, I think such mini-tower will be useless. Pros don't play games with "Arrays of Inexpensive Computing Blades (Blocks)" because there are no inexpensive components for professional market (both hardware and software).

 

[Sagaris]

Who will be the Apple's target user for such "mini-tower"? That will ruin the Apple's design differentiation - mini's for "Exactly what you need. And nothing you don’t" (c) and iMac's for "All-in-one simplicity" (c). As for Mac Pro users with their "Expansion made easy" and "Designed to be custom designed" (c) systems, I think such mini-tower will be useless. Pros don't play games with "Arrays of Inexpensive Computing Blades (Blocks)" because there are no inexpensive components for professional market (both hardware and software).

http://www.informationweek.com/news/hardware/unix_linux/229400078

...Pricing depends on configuration. For example, a PowerEdge C5125 with 12 server nodes would start at roughly $13,400...

it's about $1100 for a "brick". Just set it vertically under your desk.

 

[Budokan]

http://www.informationweek.com/news/hardware/unix_linux/229400078
it's about $1100 for a "brick". Just set it vertically under your desk.

Apple users are always looking for reliable, easy to use and pleasant to touch product.

I doubt that Dell's microservers are easy to use and pleasant to touch. Besides, do you really need a stylish aluminum multi-node tower under your desk for professional purposes? Do you think that current Mac Pro user will be able to configure and maintain such system easily? Let's split consumers and pros - they spend their money for quite different reasons and set different objectives.

 

[Sagaris]

I doubt that Dell's microservers are easy to use and pleasant to touch. Besides, do you really need a stylish aluminum multi-node tower under your desk for professional purposes? Do you think that current Mac Pro user will be able to configure and maintain such system easily? Let's split consumers and pros - they spend their money for quite different reasons and set different objectives.

I saw many different systems from enterprise market - both servers and networking device. Most of them are pleasant to touch for people who maintain it. It's not a wish, it's a standard de-facto for enterprise to have great internal design. Not for style, but for reliability and ease of maintenance.

Now I find that I don't know for sure - are the people who use Mac Pro and people who maintain it the same people? Ease to use and ease to maintain it's a quite different things.

Apple has no need to maintain compatibility with a hordes of OSes and components, so they can make management of distributed system easy as Apple always do.

 

[wafl iron]

but apple doesnt like messy cables, and thats all this would bring. Messy thunderbolt cables.

 

[carlgo]

Always liked the module concept. It might be more applicable purely as a Pro. You could have three modules:

1. Power supplies and the stuff that doesn't need updating very often.

2. A processor module, with perhaps two or three choices ranging from the most affordable to the most powerful of the day.

3. Storage module.

Modules could be linked together to form endlessly more powerful configurations. Pros would then be seen in labs and NASA headquarters, further enhancing the Apple brand.

Every company, from cars to whiskey, offers high-end products that probably aren't hugely profitable, but enhance the entire brand. Apple doesn't want to become just a toy company.

 

[wafl iron]

double post

 

[Sagaris]

but apple doesnt like messy cables, and thats all this would bring. Messy thunderbolt cables.

I mean not a tourniquet of cables, but a connector between blocks similar to dock station connectors. Just put one block atop other.

 

[Sagaris]

Always liked the module concept. It might be more applicable purely as a Pro. You could have three modules:

1. Power supplies and the stuff that doesn't need updating very often.

2. A processor module, with perhaps two or three choices ranging from the most affordable to the most powerful of the day.

3. Storage module.

Modules could be linked together to form endlessly more powerful configurations. Pros would then be seen in labs and NASA headquarters, further enhancing the Apple brand.

Every company, from cars to whiskey, offers high-end products that probably aren't hugely profitable, but enhance the entire brand. Apple doesn't want to become just a toy company.

You just propose to make classic system with external PCIe extensions, but I propose a desktop cloud/cluster.

 

[deconstruct60]

errr....
Architecture
Stacking bricks design

• System consists of several "bricks" - compact computing blocks similar to Mac Mini, which can physically stack like lego bricks and form tower-like system.
• Easy locking connector between bricks
• Unified brick design
• Brick form factor and connector physical design meet next 10 years connectivity requirements
  
  • AC power connection
  • Power/reset/lights connection

• • 
    
    Oh like a blade and blade server chassis?
    
    http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/blades/components/enclosures/c-class/c3000/
    
    Essentially the same idea only you are wrapping a physical case around each blade/block and duplicating elements like power supplies and other connectors.
    
    
    
    
    

    Desktop cloud operating system
    

    • Each brick runs hypervisor
    • All bricks together form a desktop cloud
    • Operating system runs in desktop cloud
    • Software can utilize all system resources like on a single computer

    
    The hypervisor is immaterial (unless want to run multiple OS instances on each node). The rest reads like marketing gobbledygook. If you trying to build a NUMA system where can spread a single OS instance over multiple nodes the inter-nodal interconnect is going to cost more money than Thudnerbolt or any "affordable" connection. At that point the per node price will likely increase and the equivalent system price would be higher for full "Mac Pro" performance envelope.
    
    
    

    Balanced set of specialized or general purpose bricks
    

    • Base brick (CPU, RAM, HDD/SSD, Optical Drive and communications)
    • General purpose brick (CPU, RAM)
    • GPU biased brick
    • Storage brick (Disks, external SAS/FC/Thunderbolt)
    • PCI-E brick

    
    Decomposing the elements that far only leads to increased costs. A CPU/GPU/RAM/High-bandwith-PCI-e + PCI-e /Storage box would work.
    But then you are back to iMac + docking station box with slots solution space.
    
    
    

    Why Apple?
    Only Apple users has a demand of highly upgradeable desktop system from home Internet station to power workstation, PC users already have an option to consequently change any of parts in their ATX cases.
    Only Apple with its innovative way and charisma can create a new form-factor of desktop computing systems.

    
    Sorry, but what Intel and AMD are doing: collapsing the CPU and GPU and Northbridge (and soon Southbridge elements) into a single small, cheaper, cooler package is doing far more influence future PC design that anything that Apple can do or swim upstream from.

 

[Sagaris]

...
Sorry, but what Intel and AMD are doing: collapsing the CPU and GPU and Northbridge (and soon Southbridge elements) into a single small, cheaper, cooler package is doing far more influence future PC design that anything that Apple can do or swim upstream from.

Yes, they are collapsing CPU, GPU, RAM but they have chip size and heat dissipation limitations. So why not to connect that cheap collapsed systems into a desktop cluster via high speed serial interface? I don't know for sure should it be TB or 10GE, but this is a way to use that Intel solutions and have highest desktop performance.