Apple Magic Keyboard not fit for purpose, due to extreme vulnerability to water damage

[Hip89]

If you have high expectations on EVERY SINGLE THING in life, you will be let down quite a bit.

High expectations tends to come with substantial talent. They are character traits that often go together. Certainly if you don't have much talent, then you may be more disappointed in life.

And Steve Jobs was a salesman. Period.

Jobs was a far more talented, cultured and complex character than your "salesman, period" indicates. The fact you just class him merely as a salesman suggests you are not aware of all those personality nuances.

Electronics and water do not mix, I fail to see how anyone would think otherwise. I use 99% Isopropyl Alcohol to clean mine, the interior, the exterior, the monitor, keyboards, mice, my eye glasses and any other thing I clean most times. It has never failed me.

Are you not aware of the IP rating for electronic products? Can you show me where in this IP rating scheme it says "electronics and water do not mix". Depending on the IP rating for an electronic device, water and electronics may well be mixed, providing you have a sufficient rating. It's up to the manufacturer to ensure their products meet certain IP requirements.

I suggest a good keyboard should have an IP rating of say IP24.


By the way, isopropyl alcohol and electronic devices often don't mix: I've used isopropyl alcohol to clean some electronic products from China, and it has removed the printed ink labelling. Not as safe as you claim.

 

[MacUser2525]

Not often have I had to use the ignore button lately ...

 

[mmomega]

High expectations tends to come with substantial talent. They are character traits that often go together. Certainly if you don't have much talent, then you may be more disappointed in life.

Jobs was a far more talented, cultured and complex character than your "salesman, period" indicates. The fact you just class him merely as a salesman suggests you are not aware of all those personality nuances.

Are you not aware of the IP rating for electronic products? Can you show me where in this IP rating scheme it says "electronics and water do not mix". Depending on the IP rating for an electronic device, water and electronics may well be mixed, providing you have a sufficient rating. It's up to the manufacturer to ensure their products meet certain IP requirements.

I suggest a good keyboard should have an IP rating of say IP24.

By the way, isopropyl alcohol and electronic devices often don't mix: I've used isopropyl alcohol to clean some electronic products from China, and it has removed the printed ink labelling. Not as safe as you claim.

He was a salesman. He sold products. He was just determined. He was successful when he was able to sell other

If you believe "talent" which is subjective, means you must then have high expectations. Then you're world may be off center a little and you'll learn more with experience as you age, maybe not.

Expecting a THING, to be more than it is, is dillusion and living outside of reality.
Taking a THING for what it is, whatever that THING is, is living in reality.

If you walk in to some restaurant with some expectation of the food, you are falsely believing that restaurant is going to produce food that isn't real for them to produce.
This talent has zero to do with expectation. Talent may play a role in a higher quality product, but expectation is something an individuals own mind creates. It is up to you to control that. If you can't, it could F your world up with hopes and dreams of things that aren't unattainable.

Your example: Apple not producing a desktop keyboard resistant to liquid but imagining this product should be available from this company is delusion. Once it is create by them and offered by them does it become reality.

So for your IP question. the first sentence is:
The IP Code, International Protection Marking, IEC standard 60529, sometimes interpreted as Ingress Protection Marking, classifies and rates the degree of protection provided by mechanical casings and electrical enclosures against intrusion, dust, accidental contact, and water.

Stating this rates the level of protection that a case can protect the electronics inside because the electronics inside would not withstand contact with, among things, water.

 

[Hip89]

He was a salesman. He sold products. He was just determined.

It's sad to see such heathen views among Mac users these days. But that's to be expected, I guess, because in the last say 20 years or so, the masses have jumped onto the Apple bandwagon. Prior to that, it was only an elite group of creatives that tended to use Macs: musicians, graphic designers, and the like. Most of the general public had not even heard of Apple products in the 1980s and 90s.

As a creative person, you understand what it means to put your soul into your work, and to strive to create something great and perfect. These sort of creative people always loved Macs, because in the Mac they could sense a touch of divine perfection.

But unfortunately the masses with their more mundane interests may not appreciate these qualities.

 

[jpn]

EDIT: in this post I have mistakenly called my Mac aluminum A1243 wired keyboard with numeric keypad a "Magic Keyboard", but in fact that's not the correct name, as was pointed out by @TheIntruder below. My keyboard is the Apple Keyboard with with numeric keypad, model number A1243.



In this post I will argue that the aluminum Apple Magic Keyboard is flawed and not fit for purpose. This is because if the tiniest drop of water is spilt onto the keyboard, or if you try to clean the Magic Keyboard with a damp cleaning cloth, this will often instantly and permanently destroy the keyboard. A few drops of water can kill the Magic Keyboard.

Two extended Apple Magic Keyboards with numeric keypads I've had were instantly and permanently destroyed by a tiny amount of water which got into the keys. When a small drop of water makes contact with the keys, the keys often become non-functional, and no amount of drying out of the keyboard over a warm radiator will fix the problem. You can try to dry out the Magic Keyboard for weeks, but once any water lands on the keys, forget it, as the keyboard is often irreparably destroyed.

It's hard to understand why that occurs, because even mobile phones, for example, which are dropped into water will temporarily stop working, understandably, but once dried out they usually return to function. How can just a drop of water permanently destroy the Magic Keyboard? Nothing should be that fragile.

When used in a home or office environment, you would expect the occasional drop of coffee, etc, to fall on the keyboard, so a keyboard that cannot survive a few drops of water is clearly not fit for purpose. A keyboard should be designed with the home or office environment in mind.

Similarly, you would expect any consumer electronics product to be able to survive gentle cleaning with a damp cloth, but such cleaning often kills Apple Magic keyboards.

I am currently trying to get Apple to replace my Magic Keyboard which several days ago was instantly rendered permanently non-functional because of contact with the tiniest amount of water.

Under the UK Consumer Rights Act (https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/l/faulty-goods), a product must be fit for purpose, and if it is not, then it is the legal duty of the manufacturer to repair, replace or refund the cost of the product. So I am citing UK consumer law to Apple, to try to get them to replace my broken keyboard.

In other countries, consumer protection law will vary, so if you've had a Mac Magic Keyboard die on you after exposure to a tiny amount of water, check your local consumer protection laws to see if you can legally ask Apple to refund or replace the keyboard. You can learn about the consumer rights you have in your country on Apple's website here: https://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/statutoryrights.html

I lost my first aluminum Magic Keyboard with a numeric keypad to water in 2015, when I spilt probably less than a teaspoon of coffee onto this keyboard. Although it was only a small amount of liquid, this rendered many keys non-functional. I thought that drying out the keyboard over a warm radiator would fix the issue, but even after two weeks on the radiator, the keys remained non-functioning. Even after being left in a cupboard for a year, that keyboard was still not working.

Looking online, I discovered that many people have experienced the same issue of Apple Magic Keyboards being completely destroyed by a tiny water spill. Reluctantly I ended up having to buy a new Apple Magic Keyboard with numeric keypad, at a cost of £45 in 2015.

Then some days ago, I was cleaning my Mac Magic Keyboard with a dampened kitchen paper towel, to remove some greasy marks from the keys and aluminum surface. To my horror, the same problem occurred: a tiny amount of water from the damp cloth I guess must have got into the keys, and now these keys are permanently non-functional. No amount of drying out the keyboard has helped. The keyboard is now kaput, simply as a result of me gently cleaning it with a slightly damp cloth.

I am really appalled by how fragile and vulnerable the Apple Magic Keyboard is with respect to a tiny water spill or water exposure. A few drops of water appears to be enough to permanently destroy it.

What's more, in the last 3 years, the cost of the Magic Keyboard with numeric keypad has shot up from £45 to £129! This is a very high price for a keyboard that is not fit for purpose.

This vulnerability in the Magic Keyboard needs to be fixed by Apple.

With other keyboards I have owned, including previous models of Mac keyboard (models prior to the Magic Keyboard), I have spilt coffee on them, and have cleaned them with a damp cloth, without the keyboard dying on me. Yet with the Mac Magic Keyboard, a little bit of water is the kiss of death.

Imagine if the Apple Magic Keyboard were being used in a mission-critical environment, such as in the military, or in a hospital emergency department. You would not want your computer to be rendered dysfunctional just due to a tiny spill of coffee. So unless Apple fix this issue, it would be unwise to employ a Mac for any mission critical purpose, unless you buy a third party keyboard which does not have this aqua-vulnerability.

If you have had a Magic Keyboard die on you after you cleaned it, or after you spilt a few drops of a drink on it, I suggest you do not pay out of you own pocket to replace it. I think it's only fair to complain to Apple, and to ask them to provide you with a new keyboard. It is not acceptable that tiny little water spills can instantly destroy this expensive keyboard. Only if enough people complain in this way will Apple do anything about this fault. I am really annoyed after now losing two keyboards to a few drops of water.

I think the Magic Keyboard is an excellent keyboard in terms of looks and ergonomics, and in general I am a great fan of the Mac; but something needs to be done to make the Magic Keyboard less fragile with respect to tiny water spills.

I posted the above information and complaint on the Apple Support forum (https://discussions.apple.com), but that forum deleted my thread. It seems they would rather not have people know about this fault. So for public information purposes, I am reposting the info here.

since you couldn't be bothered to change the name of the keyboard in the body of yr post, i couldn't be bothered to read any of it.

 

[zorinlynx]

Keep food and drink away from your computer equipment. This has been the standard rule since, what... the 70s?

If you're the sort that tends to spill your drink on your keyboard, maybe you should buy a USB wired keyboard that's cheap to replace if it gets damaged.

 

[konqerror]

By the way, do you trust the wireless keyboard to operate when things go awry on your Mac?

Your rants are way too long to read, but the Magic Keyboards act as conventional wired USB keyboards if you leave them plugged in, completely solving any issue you may imagine.

If you're the sort that tends to spill your drink on your keyboard, maybe you should buy a USB wired keyboard that's cheap to replace if it gets damaged.

The low-profile nature of Apple keyboards does invite drink to be closer to them. I've wrecked 2 Apples in the past years, but have never spilled on cheap Dell and HP keyboards that I'm perfectly willing to toss.

 

[Hip89]

since you couldn't be bothered to change the name of the keyboard in the body of yr post, i couldn't be bothered to read any of it.

I've never found the opinion of those who don't capitalize their letters of much value anyway.

I did not change the name because subsequent posts talking about naming issues would then not make much sense. That should have been obvious.
[automerge]1571349893[/automerge]

the Magic Keyboards act as conventional wired USB keyboards if you leave them plugged in, completely solving any issue you may have imagined.

That's interesting. So the newer Mac wireless keyboards are equipped with a USB lead? The older Mac wireless keyboards I have seen were not.

 

[Clix Pix]

The newer wireless Magic Keyboards are equipped with the USB/Lightniung cable in order to charge them. Earlier wireless keyboards used external batteries that had to be swapped out.

 

[konqerror]

That's interesting. So the newer Mac wireless keyboards are equipped with a USB lead? The older Mac wireless keyboards I have seen were not.

The Magic Keyboard, Mouse 2, and Trackpad 2 have a Lightning port. When you plug it into a USB port, Bluetooth pairing data is exchanged. When the Magic Keyboard and Trackpad 2 are attached via USB, they disconnect from Bluetooth and run as USB devices. (You can't use the Mouse 2 due to the position of the port)

Apple isn't stupid and knows that in some security-conscious companies and industries, wireless keyboards are banned.

 

[Hip89]

The Magic Keyboard, Mouse 2, and Trackpad 2 have a Lightning port. When you plug it into a USB port, Bluetooth pairing data is exchanged. When the Magic Keyboard and Trackpad 2 are attached via USB, they disconnect from Bluetooth and run as USB devices. (You can't use the Mouse 2 due to the position of the port)

That's pretty cool.

 

[zorinlynx]

The Magic Keyboard, Mouse 2, and Trackpad 2 have a Lightning port. When you plug it into a USB port, Bluetooth pairing data is exchanged. When the Magic Keyboard and Trackpad 2 are attached via USB, they disconnect from Bluetooth and run as USB devices. (You can't use the Mouse 2 due to the position of the port)

Apple isn't stupid and knows that in some security-conscious companies and industries, wireless keyboards are banned.

I can confirm this. I needed a USB keyboard in a snap and couldn't find one so I grabbed a magic keyboard from a Mac in the room and plugged it into the Linux server with a lightning cable and it worked. Big ol' server on a rack, the farthest thing from Apple hardware you can get and not even close to having bluetooth support, and it worked!

Was pretty neat, though it still sucks using those to try to work on a server due to it not being a full keyboard.

 

[konqerror]

I needed a USB keyboard in a snap and couldn't find one so I grabbed a magic keyboard from a Mac in the room and plugged it into the Linux server with a lightning cable and it worked.

You actually got me curious, so I just confirmed that the Magic Trackpad 2 does appear and work as a generic mouse over USB on a random Windows computer. It doesn't need any Apple-specific drivers for basic use.

Was pretty neat, though it still sucks using those to try to work on a server due to it not being a full keyboard.

Fun fact is that the Apple layout is closer to the correct UNIX layout, with command mapping to meta. (See emacs, where you'd have to reach up and use escape otherwise) If you go back to the ADB days, Apple even had the control key in the traditional UNIX location, where Caps Lock is today.

 

[Hip89]

Anyone here with knowledge of electronic components want to have a guess as to why water permanently damages these Apple Mac aluminum keyboards (the keyboards with the low profile scissor-switch mechanism keys)?

I think it is the scissor-switch mechanism that makes these keyboards much more vulnerable to water, compared to the old dome-switch keyboards. With the old dome-switch keyboard, you could spill an entire cup of coffee on them, and they would carry on working. See here for a description of various key mechanism types, including the scissor-switch mechanism and the dome-switch mechanism.

The amount of water that entered my keyboard was very tiny, probably no more than 1 ml, so I don't think it would have been able to get to the electronic circuit board (if it had, you might expect the whole keyboard to cease functioning, but I found it was only specific keys that stopped working).

I suspect it is the key switch contacts themselves which somehow become damaged by water. Though it does not make much sense why that happens, as you would expect a switch to resume operating once the water dries out.

There must be something about these key switch contacts which gets damaged by water, and that damage remains even after the water dries out.



The only thing I can think of at the moment is that as I live in a hard water area, my tap water will contain dissolved calcium and other minerals. Maybe when the water dries out, deposits of calcium remain on the key switch contacts, and prevent the key from operating (either by acting as an electrical insulator, or perhaps creating a short circuit by acting as an electrical conductor).

This article suggests placing a water-damaged Mac keyboard in a bucket of distilled water, in order to clean off any mineral deposits from the hard water areas. However, I tried that with the first Mac keyboard I had that was water-damaged, but the distilled water emersion did not fix it.



This hard water theory of Mac keyboard damage might also explain why some people here say that have spilt a lot of drink on their Mac keyboard without observing any damage, or have cleaned their keyboard with a damp cloth without any damage. It may be those people were in a soft water area where there are minimal minerals dissolved in the water.

It may be only those who live in hard water areas who get damaged Mac keyboards when these keyboards are exposed to water, because of the mineral deposits which occur when the water dries out.

 

[Hip89]

Here is another good thread on Apple's own forum about how easily Mac Keyboards are destroyed by the tiniest amount of liquid. In one case, a keyboard was destroyed just by cleaning with a disinfectant wet wipe.

 

[macpro2000]

Buy a new keyboard and get on with your life. It’s not hard.

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

I just used Stoners' glass cleaner in a spray bottle. Not the foam can, but the liquid spray bottle. On to a microfiber cloth and wiped my Space Magic Keyboard with built in battery/bluetooth. Low and behold it's still functioning. Not sure how you're cleaning your keyboard, but I think you're using too much cleaning solution if you're somehow introducing enough liquid to intrude into the chassis of the keyboard.

 

[AZhappyjack]

I agree the Magic Keyboard is great in terms of looks and feel. I really like the action of the keys, which is based on the scissor-switch mechanism. However, I've found these keyboards very susceptible to being destroyed by water.

After my first Magic Keyboard was destroyed by a bit of coffee, I took great care not to expose my second keyboard to liquids. While cleaning the keyboard with a damp cloth (which I do every 3 months or so), I hold the keyboard upside down to try to ensure that gravity pulls the water away from the keys, rather than into the keys. This worked, but then several days ago, while cleaning the keyboard in this way, it rendered some of the keys permanently non-functioning.

I would suggest if you have Magic Keyboard, be very careful when cleaning using a damp cloth.

Duh. Electronics and moisture do not mix well. How is that not obvious to you?

Water resistant normally means you can place it under water without damage (eg a water resistant watch). Obviously Mac components are not water resistance as such, but you would expect them to survive cleaning with a damp cloth, or survive a few splashes of coffee.

"Water resistant" does NOT mean "submersible". But even so, I have never read that the Magic Keyboard was "water resistant".

If nothing else, turn them off, unplug them or otherwise disconnect them from any power source while applying any moisture to them. Wait for them to dry completely and then re-connect them to the power supply (or turn them on).

And NEVER spray directly onto the keyboard. A light mist sprayed onto a microfiber cloth then gently wipe an Unpowered keyboard. Then let it dry completely.

I've used Apple's wired keyboards, Magic Keyboard and Magic Keyboard 2 for years, and never had an issue. But again, I use the liquid cleaners sparingly and on an unpowered device.
[automerge]1572150138[/automerge]

I've never found the opinion of those who don't capitalize their letters of much value anyway.

Deflect much?

What has proper punctuation and capitalization to do with a supposed flawed device? In my experience, one only attacks grammar and spelling, etc when they have run out of valid arguments.

 

[AZhappyjack]

It's TEN days later and you're still arguing about how you ruined your keyboard. Replace it, be more careful in the future and move on.

 

[Hip89]

Duh. Electronics and moisture do not mix well. How is that not obvious to you?

@dwfaust, you sound like you are young and thus with limited experience of computer hardware. Maybe the current generation of Macs is your life's only computer experience. But let me fill you in on computer hardware history: most keyboards can easily survive a whole cup of coffee being spilt on them. They are very resilient to water. Thus contrary to what you say, most keyboards are generally tough and hardy with respect to water spillage. How is it that you do not know this?

Most tablets or smartphones will survive a whole cup of coffee poured on them. Most TV remote controls will survive a cup of coffee spillage.

It's only flimsy Mac keyboards which are super-sensitive to auto-destructing on the slightest exposure to liquid. People have reported cleaning a Mac keyboard with a wet wipe, and that was enough to destroy it.

If that's the sort of flimsy hardware Apple want to sell, perhaps Apple might change their slogan to: "The Apple Mac: great for careful old ladies, but not recommended for use in more dynamic environments"

It's TEN days later and you're still arguing about how you ruined your keyboard.

If you actually care to read this thread, you will notice it was not me who brought this thread back to life.

What has proper punctuation and capitalization to do with a supposed flawed device? In my experience, one only attacks grammar and spelling, etc when they have run out of valid arguments.

Read the rude comment I responded to, and you will then understand why my reply was acerbic. If you are rude, expect me to be rude back.

 

[AZhappyjack]

you sound like you are young and thus with limited experience of computer hardware. Maybe the current generation of Macs is your life's only computer experience. But let me fill you in on computer hardware history: most keyboards can easily survive a whole cup of coffee being spilt on them. They are very resilient to water. Thus contrary to what you say, most keyboards are generally tough and hardy with respect to water spillage. How is it that you do not know this?

Most tablets or smartphones will survive a whole cup of coffee poured on them. Most TV remote controls will survive a cup of coffee spillage.

It's only flimsy Mac keyboards which are super-sensitive to auto-destructing on the slightest exposure to liquid. People have reported cleaning a Mac keyboard with a wet wipe, and that was enough to destroy it.

If that's the sort of flimsy hardware Apple want to sell, perhaps Apple might change their slogan to: "The Apple Mac: great for careful old ladies, but not recommended for use in more dynamic environments"

I'm willing to bet that I have socks older than you. I am a retired IT professional with over 32 years in the field. I stand by my comment that electronics and moisture do not mix well.

In my experience, the Apple keyboards, apart from the mess with the butterfly switches in the keyboards in the 2016-present laptops (MB, MBA, MBP), are anything but "flimsy". As I've said, I have used every type of keyboard imagined, dating from the 1970s, and Apple keyboards from the Apple IIc all the way up to the latest Magic Keyboards with lightning connectors and found them to be relatively tough and resilient. Moisture in the electronics of ANY device will render it useless in short order.

If you actually care to read this thread, you will notice it was not me who brought this thread back to life.

I read through the thread... and you are still complaining and trying to defend your position, which, IMO is indefensible.

Read the rude comment I responded to, and you will then understand why my reply was acerbic. If you are rude, expect me to be rude back.

Acerbic? No, you deflected away from the discussion and attacked the poster's lack of proper capitalization. It was a feeble attempt to dismiss the poster's comment based solely on the way he typed his comment.

Regardless, attacking grammar, spelling and capitalization does nothing to advance your argument. It's simply deflecting the discussion away from the issue(s) at hand. Did no one ever tell you that "a gentle answer disarms anger, but harsh words make tempers flare"? Try to rise above the fray and argue the merits of your position.

Have a nice evening... moving on.

 

[Hip89]

No, you deflected away from the discussion and attacked the poster's lack of proper capitalization. It was a feeble attempt to dismiss the poster's comment based solely on the way he typed his comment.

The poster's comment was rude. He said to me: "since you couldn't be bothered to change the name of the keyboard in the body of yr post, i couldn't be bothered to read any of it."

I am sure some people have sufficient equanimity to rise above such rude comments. Good for them, but I am not one of them.

Moisture in the electronics of ANY device will render it useless in short order.

Yes, hence the need to provide a reasonable level of protection against water spillage. A modern car engine is full of electronics. We would not get very far if those electronics were not protected from water ingression.

If cleaning with wet wipe can destroy an electronic product, the product is a piece of crap.
[automerge]1572158112[/automerge]

I read through the thread... and you are still complaining and trying to defend your position, which, IMO is indefensible.

I started this thread on the 16th, and stopped commenting on it 3 days later on the 19th. So can you explain why you said: "It's TEN days later and you're still arguing about how you ruined your keyboard."?
Do please check the facts. It's you who rekindled the argument.

 

[Clix Pix]

Back in 1951, when I was a little girl, I got my first hearing aid. One of the things which was strongly drilled into me at that time was that the thing was made of sensitive electronics and that I must never, never get it wet, that even a couple of drops could be destructive. Lo these many moons and many years later, with my current hearing aids I still stick to that policy and when I get caught in the rain, I immediately remove my hearing aids and put them into my purse or bag to protect them. Dwfaust is absolutely correct that electronics and liquids do NOT mix. Why would that be such a difficult concept for anyone to grasp?

 

[Hip89]

Dwfaust is absolutely correct that electronics and liquids do NOT mix. Why would that be such a difficult concept for anyone to grasp?

The simple concept people on this thread don't seem to be able to grasp (perhaps because some people on this forum are just ordinary consumers with no real understanding of engineering) is that electronic circuitry can be protected from water if so desired.

There is even a coding system which specifies the degree of water resistance of an electronic product: it's called the IP rating for electronic products, which I mentioned above. Did you not see that? Oh yes, I forget, people on this forum don't actually bother to read what's written in the threads.

The message I am trying to get across is that manufacturers can easily make their products reasonably resilient to water splashes if they so desire. It just takes a bit of effort during the product design stage.

 

[dukebound85]

I have two Magic Keyboards that I have abused daily, every day - for years. This is the first time I heard they are not fit for purpose. I also clean them with a damp cloth, like I do any other keyboard.

I do have a rule - no drinks on my work table, though. These keyboards are great, love them.

I had a keyboard become non functional when cleaning the keys with a damp cloth

it is very frustrating