Apple Maintains Third-Place Ranking Among Smartphone Vendors

[Christian247]

Again, AT&T is worth 3 times what Apple is worth. Sure Apple may like to be in a driver seat. But in this case they just can't afford the ride. AT&T could absorb apple and run it that way.

Thank you for telling me "again" however, I never said anything about them acquiring AT&T.

 

[Flowbee]

However, what you failed to mention is that Apple managed to do this while selling only one phone, while Nokia did this selling MANY phones.

Technically, Apple currently sells 2 phones: The iPhone 3G ($99) and the iPhone 3GS. Just saying...

 

[jaison13]

A beautiful way to trick statistics to make Apple look better than it does.

So Apple goes from 3.8 M to 8.8 M (5 M increase) and that's huge. Nokia goes from 13.7 M to 21.5 M (7.8 M increase) and that's nothing.
Actually, that means that during this year, from the people that decided to buy a smartphone, more people decided to get a Nokia instead of getting an iPhone. That's what it means.
It also means that looking at share, actually the iPhone didn't even make a dent on competitors numbers: only RIM goes down from 20.9% to 19.4 %, nothing great. All the increase in iPhone comes at the expense of secondary companies that anyway aren't true competitors.
So basically, I don't see how Apple is going to wipe out these guys as Apple fanbois have been predicting since the iPhone was released.
And all this on a market that correspond to less than 20 % of the cell phone market. Keep dreaming.

hey stooge, you are talking about a company, nokia, and actually rim who sell phone on every network vs apple who only sells on AT&T which isn't even the largest. apple seems quite happy to stick with AT&T, but IF they did extend the iphone to verizon and sprint i think they would quickly move from 3rd to first and eat directly into nokia. in some other countries they have this same exclusivity. they were handcuffed in china by not being allowed to have wifi and having the law changed after production. nokia phones are junk. i used to have nokia's phones. they break so easy. you get a drop of water on them and they die!! i still have my very 1st iphone as an ipod. still is perfect, even the battery life.

 

[theBB]

How do these companies define smartphone? I see iPhones and Blackberries everywhere, but I have never seen a Nokia that can do more than a phone call and play songs (through a very clunky interface.) Are they that popular outside of the US to get that much overall marketshare or is this due to a vague definition of "smartphone"?

 

[Padraig]

Technically, Apple currently sells 2 phones: The iPhone 3G ($99) and the iPhone 3GS. Just saying...

And they sell two models of the 3gs.

 

[Speedy2]

Apple would be a tasty snack for a Teleco gigant.

You should learn first about the basics of business transactions before you make uninformed statements like that. Apple is the 3rd most valuable company in the US with a market cap of around 240B and no one could buy them out.

Having said that, AT&T isn't cheap either and no one's gonna buy them. Surely, Apple and AT&T will not merge, since telcos are on their way out to become insignificant commodities, while Apple, Google etc will make the money.

 

[Speedy2]

Who are the people buying all these Nokia phones? I dont think I have ever seen one in the wild.

They live in Europe and Asia.

 

[Speedy2]

Again, AT&T is worth 3 times what Apple is worth.

Again, it's not. Revenue is nothing, market cap is everything. And profit, of course.

 

[Speedy2]

How do these companies define smartphone? I see iPhones and Blackberries everywhere, but I have never seen a Nokia that can do more than a phone call and play songs (through a very clunky interface.) Are they that popular outside of the US to get that much overall marketshare or is this due to a vague definition of "smartphone"?

The definition is flawed, since most alleged Nokia smartphones (running Symbian) are used for calling and texting only. Most of them are completely unusable for web surfing and hardly anyone installs any apps on them, because it's a PITA.

 

[crackbookpro]

And RIM gives away a free phone when you buy one, artificially inflating its own sales numbers. What's your point?

Not the case at all...

It's not a "give away", although gullible people are supposed to think so. RIM still gets paid for two device sales.

Those "free" phones are always dependent on two people each getting two year contracts. It's just a regularly subsidized phone. No different than "free" iPhones given away by overseas carriers.

The point of Buy One, Get One offers is not that the second one is "free", because it's not. The point is, you think you just pay for the FIRST one, but in reality the end user cost is now split across both devices.

It's no different than an iPhone price drop from say, $199 ($200) to $99 ($100). That could just as easily have been marketed as the first one for $199 ($200) and the second one "free"... it works out to the same $200 paid.

Thank You for saving me time... Laguna is the biggest Apple fan-boy on here I think.

I thought I was a big Apple fan, but Laguna clearly takes the cake.

 

[LagunaSol]

It's not a "give away", although gullible people are supposed to think so. RIM still gets paid for two device sales.

Those "free" phones are always dependent on two people each getting two year contracts. It's just a regularly subsidized phone. No different than "free" iPhones given away by overseas carriers.

The point of Buy One, Get One offers is not that the second one is "free", because it's not. The point is, you think you just pay for the FIRST one, but in reality the end user cost is now split across both devices.

It's no different than an iPhone price drop from say, $199 ($200) to $99 ($100). That could just as easily have been marketed as the first one for $199 ($200) and the second one "free"... it works out to the same $200 paid.

It doesn't matter what the net result is for RIM financially - I'm not speaking to that point. I'm saying the BOGO scheme is a gimmick to push more volume. Sure, the hapless user ends up paying in the end, but a lot of people are certainly "gullible" enough (to use your word) to snatch up that "free" phone. Because, why not?

If the gimmick didn't work, the carriers wouldn't use it.

And it would be naive to believe these deals don't skew the global sales numbers.

(And yes, BOGO on current RIM models is different than a price cut on Apple's older, now-entry-level model).

Not the case at all...


Thank You for saving me time... Laguna is the biggest Apple fan-boy on here I think.

Playing the fanboy card - the last defense for the commenter who can provide no rational argument of his own.

 

[crackbookpro]

Laguna, my opinion was summed up by kdarling(as explained)... I didn't/don't think you understand what subsidizing is...

The fanboy part has to do with your previous posts on here...

 

[LagunaSol]

I didn't/don't think you understand what subsidizing is...

I don't think you understand what my point is. I'm not talking about profit, subsidies or data fees. I'm talking about sales volume and market share (which is what this entire thread is about).

Go ahead and argue that BOGO deals don't have a measurable impact on sales volume and market share if you'd like. You're more than likely wrong.

 

[crackbookpro]

I don't think you understand what my point is. I'm not talking about profit, subsidies or data fees. I'm talking about sales volume and market share (which is what this entire thread is about).

You made the post that RIM artificially inflates sales when they do a "buy one, get one free"???... In reality, that is exactly what you say you aren't talking about - subsidizing. Can subsidizing take part in sales volumes... of course. All of these companies subsidize, and in your own words, all these companies "artificially inflate sales"... not just RIM.

Go ahead and argue that BOGO deals don't have a measurable impact on sales volume and market share if you'd like. You're more than likely wrong.

I agree...

 

[alent1234]

A beautiful way to trick statistics to make Apple look better than it does.

So Apple goes from 3.8 M to 8.8 M (5 M increase) and that's huge. Nokia goes from 13.7 M to 21.5 M (7.8 M increase) and that's nothing.
Actually, that means that during this year, from the people that decided to buy a smartphone, more people decided to get a Nokia instead of getting an iPhone. That's what it means.
It also means that looking at share, actually the iPhone didn't even make a dent on competitors numbers: only RIM goes down from 20.9% to 19.4 %, nothing great. All the increase in iPhone comes at the expense of secondary companies that anyway aren't true competitors.
So basically, I don't see how Apple is going to wipe out these guys as Apple fanbois have been predicting since the iPhone was released.
And all this on a market that correspond to less than 20 % of the cell phone market. Keep dreaming.

when your market share stagnates or drops compared to a new competitor it's not a good sign of your future

 

[JakeTheMac]

Apple FTW! They will be way up there in sales when the cheapest model is a 3GS 16GB for 99.99 and the most expensive 4G 64GB is 299.99 who would not want a iPhone running 4.0

 

[Sasha Trice]

A beautiful way to trick statistics to make Apple look better than it does.

So Apple goes from 3.8 M to 8.8 M (5 M increase) and that's huge. Nokia goes from 13.7 M to 21.5 M (7.8 M increase) and that's nothing.
Actually, that means that during this year, from the people that decided to buy a smartphone, more people decided to get a Nokia instead of getting an iPhone. That's what it means.
It also means that looking at share, actually the iPhone didn't even make a dent on competitors numbers: only RIM goes down from 20.9% to 19.4 %, nothing great. All the increase in iPhone comes at the expense of secondary companies that anyway aren't true competitors.
So basically, I don't see how Apple is going to wipe out these guys as Apple fanbois have been predicting since the iPhone was released.
And all this on a market that correspond to less than 20 % of the cell phone market. Keep dreaming.

The thing you are missing is this: Apple offers ONE PHONE (well 2, but you know)...not the dozens that Nokia or other companies offer, that is what is truly amazing in these stats that seems to be lost on Apple haters (not saying you are an Apple hater). Also Nokia phones are often cheaper than the iPhone, so it makes sense that people during a recession would buy the cheaper one. I think that a company that offers one current variety of smartphone can be third best seller worldwide is quite amazing. For the record I don't think that the iPhone will ever be the de facto smart phone, but I don't think you're giving Apple enough credit.

 

[kdarling]

It doesn't matter what the net result is for RIM financially - I'm not speaking to that point. I'm saying the BOGO scheme is a gimmick to push more volume.

Of course it is. So is pricing the iPad data plan at half price. So is dropping the iPhone price near Christmas.

Sure, the hapless user ends up paying in the end, but a lot of people are certainly "gullible" enough (to use your word) to snatch up that "free" phone. Because, why not?

The "why not" is because it's NOT FREE. You have to sign a second smartphone contract right then, which isn't cheap. You also have to want the same kind of smartphone.

But now I think I see what you're really trying to claim --- that just because the word "free" is involved, then RIM sells more smartphones, and that somehow "free" sales shouldn't count. Is that it? Well, keep reading...

And it would be naive to believe these deals don't skew the global sales numbers.

I totally agree that "free" is a big sales motivator. Why else would some European and Japanese carriers give the iPhone away for free?

And heck, you don't even need to Buy One first or get a second contract. They're ALL free. That trumps any RIM BOGO sales.

For example, the iPhone was barely selling in Japan until the carriers started giving it away for "free". After that, we got headlines like "iPhone now biggest selling smartphone in Japan" and "Japan iPhone market boosts overall world sales to new records".

Talk about carrier pricing offers skewing sales numbers...

 

[aegisdesign]

The definition is flawed, since most alleged Nokia smartphones (running Symbian) are used for calling and texting only. Most of them are completely unusable for web surfing and hardly anyone installs any apps on them, because it's a PITA.

Yet Blackberries get called 'smartphones' too and they're WORSE at all the things you accuse Nokia smartphones at being bad at.

Not many people install apps perhaps because there's not usually missing functionality in a Nokia phone.

One of my kids just got a Nokia 5230 for their birthday. Facebook, twitter, push email, sync, Ovi Maps, Live messenger, Skype all built in. This in a phone that costs nothing and only £15 a month for unlimited net, text and decent amount of calls. What does she need to install?

Ovi Maps has been downloaded 10 million times now apparently btw. Free turn-by-turn navigation in dozens of countries, mapping in over a hundred and you can store the maps offline to save on data charges unlike Google.

 

[liavman]

Again, AT&T is worth 3 times what Apple is worth. Sure Apple may like to be in a driver seat. But in this case they just can't afford the ride. AT&T could absorb apple and run it that way.

This is so false. Apple market cap is currently around 214 Billion and AT&T's is at 148 B.

 

[jimmyjoemccrow]

hey stooge, you are talking about a company, nokia, and actually rim who sell phone on every network vs apple who only sells on AT&T which isn't even the largest.

Hey stooge, think outside the US.

Also Nokia phones are often cheaper than the iPhone, so it makes sense that people during a recession would buy the cheaper one.

Nokia were leaders even before the recession

The definition is flawed, since most alleged Nokia smartphones (running Symbian) are used for calling and texting only. Most of them are completely unusable for web surfing and hardly anyone installs any apps on them, because it's a PITA.

I don't know what phones they are including in Nokia's figures, but my experience with Symbian is far from what you describe. No pinch to zoom perhaps but there are other ways to do zoom. Symbian phones can install Opera Mobile which is a great browser. There isn't the same variety of apps as the iPhone but the OVI store is now quite simple to use. Plus a great battery life, good cameras with flashes and more customisation than the iPhone currently allows.

 

[aegisdesign]

I don't know what phones they are including in Nokia's figures, but my experience with Symbian is far from what you describe.

I think they just include the Symbian phones (5230/5530/5800/6700s, E-Series, N-Series, most of the X-Series and C-Series) and Maemo (N900) in that although arguably some of the newer S40 phones are smartphones.

It's going to grow a lot in the next year I'd guess with ever cheaper Symbian based phones. And of course, the iPhone/Android snobs will cry foul that Nokia are pushing smartphone technology into ever cheaper handsets and making them available to countries that can't afford high end smartphones.

No pinch to zoom perhaps but there are other ways to do zoom. Symbian phones can install Opera Mobile which is a great browser. There isn't the same variety of apps as the iPhone but the OVI store is now quite simple to use. Plus a great battery life, good cameras with flashes and more customisation than the iPhone currently allows.

They've added pinch to zoom in Symbian^3 along with kinetic flick scrolling and other multitouch functionality. It'll be in the new Nokias such as the N8.

 

[ronwasserman]

Again, AT&T is worth 3 times what Apple is worth. Sure Apple may like to be in a driver seat. But in this case they just can't afford the ride. AT&T could absorb apple and run it that way.

Yes but AT&T has 294,600 employees. Apple has 32,000. So while AT&T is worth 3 times more, Apple's overhead is at least 9 times lower. (Just a very general estimate.)