Apple Marketshare and 'Sales Guys'

[lord_flash]

Being the embittered owner of a PowerBook 15" with a dodgy screen - the machine I chose as a switcher - I am starting to wonder just how innovative Apple actually are.

Some things a windows user is used to include a little intelligence in the recycle bin - I don't have to throw everything away at once. Littles things, but significant.

But what I really mean is that the iPod isn't so very new now. all that's happeened to is it is that it's got a little smaller. These things happen with consumer electronics.

And Apple's laptops are less than innovative when it comes to power v weight. Try one of the higher end Sony Vaios for that. Elegant, yes, but that shouldn't be confused.

If I didn't like the software so much, and the User Interface, which is suspiciously similar to Acorn's RISC OS (from 1987), then I'd be pretty annoyed about switching.

 

[1macker1]

What reasoning do you have to say that Longhorn will bring about a large and difficult change with microsoft. If you think Mac OS is better established than Windows, you must be kidding. Linux is still years away from being accepted widespread. And Solaris is just a pain to work with.

Originally posted by eazyway

Longhorn will bring about a large and very difficult change within microsoft especially when Linux and MAC OS and Solaris are well established and don't need all the extra effort to bring in the change. This is actually a great opportunity for Apple to spread their system to consumers.

 

[gorkonapple]

Marketshare....who needs it?

Market share will soon be irrelevant. It is now for the most part. Someone at work derided me for purchasing my first Mac, but I ask you this....what other platform can I buy both off the shelf software and toy with open source software and not hear the userbase balk when I load that program I spent money on? I can also communicate with Windows, TCP/IP of course, Appletalk, and many other protocols. When I want the commandline...it's there. When I don't, it's not. AppleScript lets me script actions within the Aqua UI. Does Windows have the same? I setup a printer and attached a dvcamcamcorder. One of these needed a driver on Windows. The mac needed drivers for nothing. When I plug in the cam on my windows machine, there's a lag (on a 2.5 GHz machine!). My Mac, a 1 GHz, 12 inch PowerBook made the cam available in less then one second in iMovie. My point is, in the very near future, if you can't play nice with other platforms, you'll be gone. Market shares matters not. Whether you make money or not DOES matter.

What Apple is doing with the iPod is smart. Eventually, the windows users who do buy a iPod will say that since the iPod is so good, why don't I look to a Mac? Maybe it's a good machine too. The iPod may be about making money off of music, but it's an excellent way to get converts as well.

 

[cubist]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
... the above poster is 100% correct.

It's not kosher to quote yourself and then say the post is 100% correct. (As an aside, DHM, I agree with you.)

 

[wilco]

Originally posted by Qunchuy
Windows in its current incarnation is getting a bit long in the horn...

The phrase you're thinking of is "long in the tooth."

 

[manu chao]

Another reason for the low market share

Apart from the price, one of the biggest reasons holding down the market share is lacking personal support.

I've been asked several times by other people whether I would recommend them a Mac, and looking for an honest answer I mostly ended up with saying no.

If you are the only one in your office with a Mac (we know how low the market share is for business environements) you mostly likely get no support from anybody, if something does not work you cannot ask anybody. Most people will know some Windows stuff, but no Win-user will even touch your Mac.
The same is true in private life, with a 10% consumer market share, you are ten times less likely to have somebody among your tech-savy aquaintences who is into Macs than into PCs.

 

[scat999999]

I liked Jobs copmments on market share in his MacWorld interview. >

MW: "Over the years, the media and analysts have always focused on market share. But although Mac market share is relatively small, Apple is profitable and is making products that affect the entire industry.


Jobs: Apple's market share is bigger than BMW's or Mercedes's or Porsche's in the automotive market. What's wrong with being BMW or Mercedes?"

Pretty much sums it up for me.

 

[cubist]

Originally posted by 1macker1
... Linux is still years away from being accepted widespread. And Solaris is just a pain to work with.

This year will be a year of upheaval. All kinds of new products will be coming out. Perhaps PCs will finally shed their legacy ports and floppies and get flexible LCD screens. Linux GUIs will be improving; buyers will test the waters.

But by the end of 2004, the new picture will be clear. 2005 will be the year of landslide Linux adoption. Apple should pick up some marketshare in 2004; let's hope they can hold onto it in 2005.

 

[1macker1]

I dont see how owing an iPod would drive a person to buying a Mac. When I bought my iMac a year ago, i was stunned by the look, feel, and quality of the machine. And i liked os X. Apple hasn't done much to stun me as of late. It seems like all their new products are just things to yawn about.

 

[BishopInBog]

Im glad Apples consumer market share is reasonably high, up in the 10%+ region. Its non-consumer market share must be appallingly low, which hopefully means people will come to associate Windows PC's with work and drudgery, and Apples with fun and play.

 

[1macker1]

Didn't apple lose market share in the educational area last year. I think this is where they need to focus on. They are counting on people to switch, which I dont think is a good idea. Most people are raised using Windows, and know nothing else but Windows. If apple was to move it's focus on the very young market, I think they will see their consumer share go out of the roof down the road. If the kids are raised using Macs, then they'll end up buying Macs.

 

[ipiloot]

Re: Re: It's Market Share, stupid. No, profits. No, Market Share.

Originally posted by DGFan
There's a difference between overcharging for your products and not having products in the categories that are best-sellers. That's pretty much Apple's problem right now. They need to find a way to make money on a $750 box with no screen. That's the only way for them to grab marketshare of any significant size.

This lack of a <$1000 machine was even commented on (by Apple) during their recent conference call. I hope that was a hint of things to come.

eMac is $799 WITH screen. The market where Apple is missing from is sub $700 machines.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

Originally posted by cubist
It's not kosher to quote yourself and then say the post is 100% correct. (As an aside, DHM, I agree with you.)

It was a small joke. perhaps very small. but i agree with you agreeing with me.

 

[mrsebastian]

Originally posted by 1macker1
I dont see how owing an iPod would drive a person to buying a Mac. When I bought my iMac a year ago, i was stunned by the look, feel, and quality of the machine. And i liked os X. Apple hasn't done much to stun me as of late. It seems like all their new products are just things to yawn about.

i agree that an ipod may not drive someone to go purchase a mac, but have you used a g5 yet? i'd say it's nothing to yawn at

 

[1macker1]

Yes i've use a G5, we have 2 here at WORK, i have no need for 64 bit processing at home. It's a great looking maching inside and out, but just not practial for the average consumer.

Originally posted by mrsebastian
i agree that an ipod may not drive someone to go purchase a mac, but have you used a g5 yet? i'd say it's nothing to yawn at

 

[takao]

hmm marketshare...maybe not a big problem in the us or. uk but what about the rest of the world ? 5% sounds good to me but thats just the US.... here the marketshare is going all the way down ... no shop is selling them ... no advertising either... I want to switch spring 2005 but i won't buy a product which i can't see somewhere before i buy it...but this is not possbile here ... so what shall somebody do here ? come on i asked somebody who just bought a HP-computer why he haven't bought a mac : the answer: "apple is still in business ? "

apple germany/austria behaves in the same arrogant way here in europe like they did before steve jobs came back...... if apple doenst change this they will lose their _complete_ marketshare here .... (which is perhaps 0,5% for new machines)

"hey apple, what about us ?"

 

[sigamy]

I love Steve but he's poking fun at "sales guys"? What exactly does he consider himself? An engineer? A designer?

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

steve is a enthusiest and visionary as opposed to sales guys/bean counters. what Takao says holds true in the U.S. unless you live in california seeing a mac and anything to go with it is very very rare. Apple has gotten some of those Pro's but consumers well thats a different story.

 

[sedarby]

Originally posted by 1macker1
Yes i've use a G5, we have 2 here at WORK, i have no need for 64 bit processing at home. It's a great looking maching inside and out, but just not practial for the average consumer.

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! You must be kidding? Since when does the home market deserve less computing power than an office?
Son, you can never have enough money, computing power, memory, hard disk space, etc. etc.

Speak for yourself. I wonder how many here bought a G5 for home. I know I will when they are updated, hopefully soon.

 

[singletrack]

Originally posted by rundevilrun
Actually DirectX wasn't really a Microsoft idea. Way back around '92-93 in the heyday of OS/2 IBM came up with an api called DIVE (direct interface video extension) which allowed games and multimedia apps direct access to video hardware. Microsoft came up with Direct X shortly afterwards.

And most of the developers came from BlueRibbon Soundworks IIRC, an Amiga software company that Microsoft bought.

 

[DGFan]

Re: Re: Re: It's Market Share, stupid. No, profits. No, Market Share.

Originally posted by ipiloot
eMac is $799 WITH screen. The market where Apple is missing from is sub $700 machines.

When I said a $750 box I meant one that is usable. OS X is horrible with under 512MB of RAM and I wouldn't want to do anything serious on it with under 1GB.

I can get a PC with usable hardware from HP for $600. By the time you upgrade the HD and RAM on that eMac you're looking at closer to $950 (assuming you buy and install the RAM yourself otherwise it's over $1000). So we're looking at about a $400 difference for machines thare are comparable. It's no contest. That's 2/3 more for the Mac. Sure, you get a monitor with the Mac but if you dont need one (and lots of people don't) why would you ever buy the Apple?

That's the market Apple is missing. All it needs to do is come out with a headless iMac and squeeze the profit margin down a bit.

If they hadn't been motivated to do this before I am sure last quarter's numbers for the iMac/eMac (which were downright pathetic) will light the fire under them. They can't afford to lose the consumer market.

 

[sedarby]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
steve is a enthusiest and visionary as opposed to sales guys/bean counters. what Takao says holds true in the U.S. unless you live in california seeing a mac and anything to go with it is very very rare. Apple has gotten some of those Pro's but consumers well thats a different story.

Really? CompUSA and Guitar Center both display Apple computers and accessories. Apple does not only sell through their stores.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

Guitar center? never heard of it. CompUsa? not any in this city and this just goes to show what a poor job they are doing in putting the consumer line anywhere where consumers can see them.

 

[sedarby]

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's Market Share, stupid. No, profits. No, Market Share.

Originally posted by DGFan
When I said a $750 box I meant one that is usable. OS X is horrible with under 512MB of RAM and I wouldn't want to do anything serious on it with under 1GB.

I can get a PC with usable hardware from HP for $600. By the time you upgrade the HD and RAM on that eMac you're looking at closer to $950 (assuming you buy and install the RAM yourself otherwise it's over $1000). So we're looking at about a $400 difference for machines thare are comparable. It's no contest. That's 2/3 more for the Mac. Sure, you get a monitor with the Mac but if you dont need one (and lots of people don't) why would you ever buy the Apple?

That's the market Apple is missing. All it needs to do is come out with a headless iMac and squeeze the profit margin down a bit.

If they hadn't been motivated to do this before I am sure last quarter's numbers for the iMac/eMac (which were downright pathetic) will light the fire under them. They can't afford to lose the consumer market.

Thinking like a salesman. Look, Apple is not a commodity item. It has always been for more money better user experience and this does cost more than what Billy Bob can through together or pick up at Walmart. Apple has not been in the business of producing junk and I respect them for that.

I for one appreciate a fine automobile and yes I will pay extra. Apple is not the Ford Escort of the computing world nor should it ever be. Elitist? No, just willing to pay for the best computing environment available.

 

[Trekkie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's Market Share, stupid. No, profits. No, Market Share.

Originally posted by DGFan
When I said a $750 box I meant one that is usable. OS X is horrible with under 512MB of RAM and I wouldn't want to do anything serious on it with under 1GB.

Used windows with 128MB or 256MB those sub $700 PCs come with lately? They make Mac OS X on 256MB seem fast.