Apple Merging 'iCloud Documents and Data' Service With iCloud Drive in May 2022

[lazyrighteye]

Literally any attention paid their cloud services is appreciated. As intuitive as Apple has historically been, they managed to cluster the $#!@ out of their cloud storage offerings. And yet, I still find it better than DropBox.

 

[freediverx00]

Saving files “inside” the apps was a horrible idea by Steve Jobs.

I wouldn’t say it was a horrible idea, just one that was short-sighted and handicapped more experienced users to provide simplicity for newbies.

Back then, Apple realized that the concept of file management, using a hierarchical system of nested files and folders, was the single most daunting topic for those uncomfortable with computers. Lots of people either saved everything to their desktop, with comic results, or saved files to some default location which they could never find later on. This remains the status quo for Windows users, for the most part.

The Mac first addressed this with the universal, indexed search feature which allowed the user to instantly find a file without knowing its location. But that only went so far. Anyone who opened the Finder would still have to navigate a dizzying array of deeply nested folders, the vast majority of which contained application and system files which they should never be looking at or touching.

So with the iPhone Apple made a clean break with the past and simplified things to the point where both your grandmother and your six-year-old kid could now accomplish many things without any previous training or experience. This was an enormous breakthrough that empowered millions across the globe. But as we all know, it severely limited file management capabilities for the more tech savvy, making iOS devices seem like simplistic toys unsuitable for serious work.

Ironically, as iOS and now iPadOS have matured, the platform has grown almost as complex as its desktop predecessor, both in software functionality and in UI gestures, to the point where the less tech savvy are once again very confused about the whole thing while more experienced users still feel like they’re working with one arm tied behind their back.

 

[paulvee]

I’ve never wanted to use iCloud drive because I never wanted my machines to sync.

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

Thanks for reminding me that I have an iCloud and storage account. The service is so pathetically slow and convoluted that I seldom think about it.

I find it no slower or faster than OneDrive.

 

[PsykX]

To this day, iCloud has been harder to use and less reliable than Dropbox.

I can understand why they wanted to buy it.

 

[deusx]

I’m not entirely sure if what they mean by documents and data is actually these iCloud per app folders. I believe what they are implying is to move the documents and data, I.e., the space occupied by each ios app’s documents for example as in the screenshot below, to iCloud documents folders.

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

If they offer previous versions I would ditch my Office 365 sub. Ransomware will encrypt your iCloud drive and sync it and take out your time machine backups as well.

 

[Henk Poley]

It pre-dates iCloud Drive and is essentially cloud storage limited to individual apps.
[..]
It was intended to make things simple and fit the new apps paradigm of iOS. I want to play Music, I go to the Music app. I want to edit a document, I go to the Pages app.

[..] Finally Apple gave in with this approach and allowed a file system on iOS along with iCloud Drive which lets create your own file system that can be accessed across all devices.

This sounds like it would finally allow any app to cryptolocker at least all your iCloud stored files (🎉/😒)

Edit: Another way to interpret what Apple is saying, is that they are disabling legacy iOS to access 'iCloud Documents and Data' files. But for modern iOS everything is transparently moved.

 

[arvinsim]

In 2043 Apple will consider merging Apple ID accounts.

Probably the same year they are going to allow credit cards that is not tied to your account's country.

 

[vvapple]

Ok I am confused. The support document says iCloud Drive (including desktop and documents) would be supported on any system running OSX Yosemite or later - we have an iMac running El Capitan, and iCloud Drive isn’t showing a single file and doesn’t sync anything. Now it states that it should still be supported.

 

[Henk Poley]

Ok I am confused. The support document says iCloud Drive (including desktop and documents) would be supported on any system running OSX Yosemite or later - we have an iMac running El Capitan, and iCloud Drive isn’t showing a single file and doesn’t sync anything. Now it states that it should still be supported.

To 'unstick' iCloud on macOS / OS X you sometimes have to sign out of iCloud, wait until Activity Monitor shows the mac is calm again, reboot, login to iCloud (wait until..).

Sometimes you have to redo this, and afterwards check if all the sliders in iCloud are turned on.

Fixed a Big Sur iCloud for me recently.

The above announcement might mean that older systems will stop having access to certain per-app cloud storage. But that shouldn't be today, but next year.

 

[AppleTO]

I’m not entirely sure if what they mean by documents and data is actually these iCloud per app folders. I believe what they are implying is to move the documents and data, I.e., the space occupied by each ios app’s documents for example as in the screenshot below, to iCloud documents folders.

Man, I hope not. That would make a huge mess, but at least it would be theoretically easier to delete stuff.

Although, I don’t think Notes is a good example, as it has its own activation ‘switch’ in iCloud. It would be weird seeing all your notes in iCloud Drive, but having the notes app empty (if notes was turned off).

 

[bice]

I wouldn’t say it was a horrible idea, just one that was short-sighted and handicapped more experienced users to provide simplicity for newbies.

Back then, Apple realized that the concept of file management, using a hierarchical system of nested files and folders, was the single most daunting topic for those uncomfortable with computers. Lots of people either saved everything to their desktop, with comic results, or saved files to some default location which they could never find later on. This remains the status quo for Windows users, for the most part.

The Mac first addressed this with the universal, indexed search feature which allowed the user to instantly find a file without knowing its location. But that only went so far. Anyone who opened the Finder would still have to navigate a dizzying array of deeply nested folders, the vast majority of which contained application and system files which they should never be looking at or touching.

So with the iPhone Apple made a clean break with the past and simplified things to the point where both your grandmother and your six-year-old kid could now accomplish many things without any previous training or experience. This was an enormous breakthrough that empowered millions across the globe. But as we all know, it severely limited file management capabilities for the more tech savvy, making iOS devices seem like simplistic toys unsuitable for serious work.

Ironically, as iOS and now iPadOS have matured, the platform has grown almost as complex as its desktop predecessor, both in software functionality and in UI gestures, to the point where the less tech savvy are once again very confused about the whole thing while more experienced users still feel like they’re working with one arm tied behind their back.

It really was a horrible idea.
It goes back to the idea that the user can't and shouldn't be aware of the difference between application and data.

In practical terms. The idea is that no user should ever understand or be bothered with the difference between e.g. a picture and a picture handling application. The user should not decide what photo to edit and with what application, the user should be taught to think "I want to do photo thingy stuff and the place to do that is called iphoto".

While one can argue this is somewhat easier for the absolute beginner without any computer skills it is also easy to see the major major problems with it.
First, this assumes the application provider (presumably Apple) can provide a photo-thingy-application that fulfils every need. They can't and when you add a second application that handles some user needs, the complexity is 10-fold compared to a simple hierarchical system of nested files and folders.

Secondly, fully implemented the lock-in effect of this idea is huge. Not only are the users locked in to a certain platform, they are now locked-in to a certain application provider. The idea makes it easy for the application provider in some sense to hold the user's data to ransom

Also, this idea of simplification always ends with confusion. If you go into something assuring the user "you do not need to know or understand anything about what you are doing, you can focus all your energy on being 'creative'"or whatever", all those users who do start out by not knowing anything will be totally helpless when something goes wrong. Have you ever tried to help someone who lost a picture on an Apple-device? They have no idea what they did, where the data is stored and why they suddenly can't access what was there the other day.

From a user perspective, it is and always was a horrible idea. From a monopolist perspective though, I'm sure there are huge benefits.

 

[rotax]

When will my entire iCloud account data be encrypted end to end with no Apple access? Or at least all files / documents.

 

[insomniac86]

I’m confused. Is this about the weird mess where apps have their own folders in iCloud, separate from the Documents folders?

This was invented before file structures were accessible on iOS and I would be very happy if they went away. Saving files “inside” the apps was a horrible idea by Steve Jobs.

Sadly not. This is just the crappy old folder sync it had before iCloud Drive came around.

 

[brofkand]

This is a good change and long overdue. I would love to see Apple overhaul iCloud. They have a bad history of launching new cloud services and letting them die on the vine with very little change to the structure for years - and thus far, iCloud is no different from iTools, .Mac, and MobileMe in that regard.

 

[JosephAW]

Translation: iCloud sync will only work with iOS 16 and M1 Macs.
Things like syncing safari bookmarks, notes, calendar, etc will stop working with older macOS.

 

[4206168]

There are two things that I think Apple have never lived up to their standards and marketing with. iCloud and Siri. Really wish they would make them both much much better. Both seem like an afterthought to them.

 

[b656]

Good news but why May 2022? Apple, you know me by now. We want it now now now!

 

[mpee3]

In 2043 Apple will consider merging Apple ID accounts.

I am laughing.

But actually this flaw is making me really angry. It is so annoying to be forced to handle multiple IDs just because ages ago you created one for the store and one for anything else. Also changing my ID is not possible (from abc@icloud.com to def@icloud.com).

 

[bklement]

Back then, Apple realized that the concept of file management, using a hierarchical system of nested files and folders, was the single most daunting topic for those uncomfortable with computers. Lots of people either saved everything to their desktop, with comic results, or saved files to some default location which they could never find later on. This remains the status quo for Windows users, for the most part.

Sadly they've created more clutter elswhere with this philosophy: no nested tags in books for example.

 

[MauiPa]

I hate it when I feel dumb, but I have no idea what documents and data is. I use iCloud Drive on MAC, it is easy to get to in Finder, the web version mirrors it and when I use Files on iOS, it is the same thing. Is this possibly referring to the iPhone listing on finder who you connect to your MAC via wire or WiFi? Seeing as I don't need to use that, I am not confused by it. did I not read the article carefully enough?

 

[HappyMBAowner]

As many others, I am also confused after reading this. Please clarify and explain in more details how this is implemented now, how it will be implemented in 2022 and how to ensure we don't lose anything.

 

[zorinlynx]

I am laughing.

But actually this flaw is making me really angry. It is so annoying to be forced to handle multiple IDs just because ages ago you created one for the store and one for anything else. Also changing my ID is not possible (from abc@icloud.com to def@icloud.com).

By the way, one way to deal with this issue is to use the ID that has made the most purchases that can't be shared with Family Sharing (like music and in-app purchases), and invite the other Apple ID to Family Sharing. It doesn't solve the problem completely but at least you'll have access to most of your purchases on your main account.

 

[chabig]

The fact that they are making this move in May 2022 makes me think they might be setting the stage for full file system access to be introduced for iOS and iPadOS at WWDC in June.