Apple, Microsoft on Windows on Mac; Benchmarks

[roach]

I guess I meant tight specs in terms of the overall package of hardware that Apple knows works well with its inhouse software.

Apple stick with their generally high spec but limited range all built with components known to definitely operate reliably within the limits required by OS X . I wonder if the Apple integration and Apple reliability could be replicated by any PC manufacturer that took the trouble (or the risk) to produce a machine with the specs required to run XP reliably and easily match the Apple hardware/software experience?

ie Do Dell have access to the inner workings of XP and know it as well as Apple know OSX - the big difference being that dell as hardware manufacturers choose to produce cheapo hardware in their range ( so the requirements of XP arent necessarily met long term and that is where the reliability problems running XP arise)

Boxx PC computer goes beyond what support and product quality Apple or Dell offers. Their specialty is the VFX market and they are very well known in the VFX industry. Infact, you can buy 3ds max, Maya, XSI and Lightwave 3d pre-installed in their system.

 

[contoursvt]

Bingo, exactly. Ask anyone with enough experience on a PC with X86 and Windows XP, they'll tell you the same thing.

Most people seems to be on the Christian side of a witch hunt, don't know enough to say otherwise, just going with the flow.

If you put your windows behind a firewall capable router, and use firefox, like me, you don't need anti-this or that. Unless you absolutely desire to visit pr0n sites in Russia every hour and open up every e-mail attachment from the latest pictures of "insert famous star here" series.

I agree. Actually I have done the same as you, except that I still use IE. For the past year and 2 months, I have run no Antivirus and have been fine. I do basic stuff like disable the preview pane in my Outlook and dont click on unknown attachments. I dont surf p0rn or download warez. Not one hiccup on the box. About once every other month I connect to trendmicro and run their remote antivirus to see if I'm still clean and I am Basically trouble finds you when you look for trouble... as long as you surf legit sites, you'll be fine

 

[askegg]

I agree. Actually I have done the same as you, except that I still use IE. For the past year and 2 months, I have run no Antivirus and have been fine. I do basic stuff like disable the preview pane in my Outlook and dont click on unknown attachments. I dont surf p0rn or download warez. Not one hiccup on the box. About once every other month I connect to trendmicro and run their remote antivirus to see if I'm still clean and I am Basically trouble finds you when you look for trouble... as long as you surf legit sites, you'll be fine

I have used Windows for many years and the newer versions have much better security than those that came before. However, you should not have to install firewalls, run different web browsers, disable program features, run auti virus scanners and avoid dodgey website to keep your computer clean.

95% of users are clueless about these things, and educating the masses is not a reasonable response. It is difficult, unreliable and unnatural. Computer systems need to change. The ideal computer would be naturally intuitive for first time users. It should act the way we would expect it to act. You should never have to consciously learn how to operate a computer, what behaviour it exhibits when you do certain things and how to coach it into what you desire.

The things you mention are not what most people should be expected to do in order to avoid the bear traps of modern computing. Remove the bear traps rather than stick a sign up and tip toe around them.

 

[i hate pcs]

Guys, can't you see... Apple wants to sell more of its computers, not OS. They allowed windows to boot on Apple computers so that people can enjoy the beautiful white or aluminium machines, not having to be put off by the OS.( face it, many people do not want a Mac because the OS cannot support alot of softwares and games.)

I think Apple realises that many people love the designs of its computers but are afraid of the OS. They are afraid that they can't load their applications on the OS. See...Apple allowed windows user to use ipods, so they are now doing the same thing to macbook pros, imacs, macbooks, mac minis. Look at the response of ipods, 42 million sold! You think all of em are mac users? The market is huge out there, they cannot afford to stay loyal to their own OS. They have to think of a way to get the computers out to everywhere. Face it, Apple is still a business, they wanted to earn as much money as they could. They dont exist to cater your unique needs (counterculture), they exists to make lots of money, so that all the shareholders are happy and their bank accounts are healthy.

Im a switcher myself. I got sick of all the crashes, virus, hangs on windows XP. I have to format my old PC every 1 month. If not for my games, I would have made a complete switch to MAC (im not afraid of the OS..lol..). I recently upgraded my PC for my games and is now waiting for my macbook pro to arrive..which will arrive on Monday or Tuesday ... cant wait to get my hands on it! Im two steps away from becoming a full blown Apple fan, those who wore "I love you , Steve !" tshirts at mac events.. lol

im still a bit confused about whats going on here, but this post helps me out a bit. so, you will only be able to run windows on a mac, and not os x on a pc correct ? even though you can through a emulation program.

im considering taking the apple certification program. but if you could run os x on a pc, what would be the point?

pleas help

 

[i hate pcs]

The Mac will never loose while it has dedicated Mac users who buy their hardware. And I think current Mac developers will realise that Mac users want to spend their time in the Mac OS and continue developing for it. The release of Boot Camp will probably be used as an excuse for Windows only developers not to release a Mac version, but would they have released a native Mac version if Boot Camp had not been released? I doubt it.

As for the benchmarks, it's early days for Apple on Intel and I think with point releases in Tiger we'll hopefully see an improvement.

im still a bit confused about whats going on here, but this post helps me out a bit. so, you will only be able to run windows on a mac, and not os x on a pc correct ? even though you can through a emulation program.

im considering taking the apple certification program. but if you could run os x on a pc, what would be the point?

pleas help

 

[exmacuser]

Just to show you what I can do on a 1.25 ghz Powerbook g4 with 1.25 gb of RAM:

1. 48 STEREO tracks of audio (thats stereo - so 96 effective tracks)
2. Reason 2.5 running, with sequence
3. Virtual synths
4. Photoshop open (The picture of the Taj Mahal)
5. Word was open and running (the window didnt show up in the grab pic)

All this, on the powerbook's internal 4200 RPM DRIVE

Everything was running flawlessly.. THIS is what I love about the Mac.

The G4 Mac that is. Your Intel Mac will perform worse, I guarantee. You no longer have a massive throughput data crunching processor like the RISC you currently have. You will have an old x86 architecture processor incapable of the same level of throughput as a RISC. Also, the software you are using (I assume Pro Tools) is written so that the software takes advantage of the special instruction set embedded within the RISC processor. You will no longer have this on the CrapIntel MBP. What you will have is just another Windows capable box. The days of the G4 and G5 are over my friend. Apple, as we know it, is the iPod company. They're computers suck now and I've been using them since 1978. I never thought they'd produce garbage like this.

 

[exmacuser]

That isn't to say that OSX isn't a better choice for live music productions - even with identical hardware one OS can have better real-time characteristics than another.

OS 10 isn't better for music production, commie. It's worse. OS 9 was WAY better for music production, using Pro Tools that is. That is all I use with my Moblie workstation. It's not the OS, it's the hardware. Now it's nothing.

 

[longofest]

The G4 Mac that is. Your Intel Mac will perform worse, I guarantee. You no longer have a massive throughput data crunching processor like the RISC you currently have. You will have an old x86 architecture processor incapable of the same level of throughput as a RISC. Also, the software you are using (I assume Pro Tools) is written so that the software takes advantage of the special instruction set embedded within the RISC processor. You will no longer have this on the CrapIntel MBP. What you will have is just another Windows capable box. The days of the G4 and G5 are over my friend. Apple, as we know it, is the iPod company. They're computers suck now and I've been using them since 1978. I never thought they'd produce garbage like this.

He wasn't using Pro Tools... he was using Digital Performer 4.x by MOTU, which isn't even made for Windows. However, as much as I am with you on the RISC thing, you are a little over-dramatic with it.

If Motorola/Freescale and IBM had reasons to invest in really making the G4 and G5 for the desktop architecture, then we would still have a far superior chip. However, with Apple as its only real desktop customer, both companies decided to focus their efforts elsewhere (Freescale for embedded, IBM for gaming, servers, etc). As great as the G4 was, it was really hampered by its bus. And as great as the G5 still is, it can't fit in a portable machine, nor is the 970MP a very good dual-core design (the best x86 designs like AMD and coreDuo from Intel have cache sharing).

Perhaps Apple should have just started plopping Power5 and Power6 processors into Macs... that would have taken the strain off of IBM, and we would still get our RISC design. The problem of course is that you lose Altivec, and you jack the price through the roof. But at least those processors have really good multi-core designs.

Then again, no running Windows natively with that solution, and I don't forsee a Power5 in a notebook any sooner than I see a G5 in a notebook.

 

[longofest]

OS 10 isn't better for music production, commie. It's worse. OS 9 was WAY better for music production, using Pro Tools that is. That is all I use with my Moblie workstation. It's not the OS, it's the hardware. Now it's nothing.

So you enjoy random system hangs during a recording session???

 

[exmacuser]

So you enjoy random system hangs during a recording session???

Never had one that I can speak of.
Oh, yeah. Doesn't the XBOX 360 use an IBM processor? Strange how things work, isn't it?

 

[longofest]

Never had one that I can speak of.
Oh, yeah. Doesn't the XBOX 360 use an IBM processor? Strange how things work, isn't it?

XBox360, Playstation3, and Nintendo Revolution (or whatever it will be called) all use IBM processors or processors developed jointly with IBM (in the case of CELL).

In fact, Nintendo has used PowerPC processors for at least as far back as the GameCube... I think Nintendo64 as well...

 

[exmacuser]

XBox360, Playstation3, and Nintendo Revolution (or whatever it will be called) all use IBM processors or processors developed jointly with IBM (in the case of CELL).

In fact, Nintendo has used PowerPC processors for at least as far back as the GameCube... I think Nintendo64 as well...

Yes, but nobody has the 3.2ghz 3 Core PowerPC that Microsoft uses. Maybe they'll sell it to Apple once Apple flops. Or perhaps when Microsoft finally buys Apple's computer division they will put their new IBM PowerPC processor in them.

 

[ManchesterTrix]

Yes, but nobody has the 3.2ghz 3 Core PowerPC that Microsoft uses. Maybe they'll sell it to Apple once Apple flops. Or perhaps when Microsoft finally buys Apple's computer division they will put their new IBM PowerPC processor in them.

I love your unreality.

 

[exmacuser]

I love your unreality.

Hey, there is still hope. Afterall, who would have thought Microsoft would have their own PowerPC chip when Apple said they couldn't produce them? They sure can make them for the XBOX 360 and everytime a shipment gets out they are sold.

 

[ManchesterTrix]

Hey, there is still hope. Afterall, who would have thought Microsoft would have their own PowerPC chip when Apple said they couldn't produce them? They sure can make them for the XBOX 360 and everytime a shipment gets out they are sold.

Well since neither Microsoft nor Apple actually make the PowerPC chips. And there's a matter of economies of scale and R&D. For example, The 360 is going to use the same processor for 5-6 years. Apple constantly needs newer, faster, more updated processors. There's no problem with the 360 stagnating. It wasn't that Apple couldn't get PowerPC chips, it's that Apple couldn't get a steady supply of updated PowerPC chips for a price where it would be beneficial to do so. But hey, if you refuse to believe that the MacBook Pro is better than the PowerBook G4, more power to you. I have the last model PowerBook and the first model MacBook and from my personal experience the move was a good one. Even if the new DVD burner doesn't like any of the media I already had.

 

[Peace]

Yes, but nobody has the 3.2ghz 3 Core PowerPC that Microsoft uses. Maybe they'll sell it to Apple once Apple flops. Or perhaps when Microsoft finally buys Apple's computer division they will put their new IBM PowerPC processor in them.

That PPC you talk about is quit different than the PPC in Macs..
The one in the Xbox360 is designed for graphics.It would suck at multi-tasking.

And please change your username.It offends me

 

[exmacuser]

Well since neither Microsoft nor Apple actually make the PowerPC chips.

No kidding, but Microsoft actually owns the rights to a PowerPC core. As far as using the same cpu for 5 to 6 years, I think that's pushing it. The XBOX has only been around for 4 years. I don't know how often people upgrade their own computers. I generally update my IBM compatible pc's every few months in some sort of way, but that's cause I'm a geek and I enjoy it. My G4 Powerbook is getting long in the tooth but I have no plans to buy another one until Apple switches back, probably next year. Probably the first company that actually believed their own add campaing to SWITCH.

 

[exmacuser]

That PPC you talk about is quit different than the PPC in Macs..
The one in the Xbox360 is designed for graphics.It would suck at multi-tasking.

Well, it was specifically designed for multi-threading. The chip can execute 2 threads at the same time, meaning 6 threads at once. Not a shabby multi-tasker if you ask me. There isn't another cpu that can do that.

 

[ManchesterTrix]

No kidding, but Microsoft actually owns the rights to a PowerPC core. As far as using the same cpu for 5 to 6 years, I think that's pushing it. The XBOX has only been around for 4 years. I don't know how often people upgrade their own computers. I generally update my IBM compatible pc's every few months in some sort of way, but that's cause I'm a geek and I enjoy it. My G4 Powerbook is getting long in the tooth but I have no plans to buy another one until Apple switches back, probably next year. Probably the first company that actually believed their own add campaing to SWITCH.

And I believe the general thought is that this generation of consoles will be around longer, but we'll go with 4 years. Developing and maintaining one chip for 4 years is vastly different than what Apple needs. Switch back next year, HIGH-larious.

 

[exmacuser]

And I believe the general thought is that this generation of consoles will be around longer, but we'll go with 4 years. Developing and maintaining one chip for 4 years is vastly different than what Apple needs. Switch back next year, HIGH-larious.

OK, realistically 2 years. People in here laughed when I said they'd switch to Intel. Hahaha. I was kidding at the time, not this time.

 

[longofest]

Well, it was specifically designed for multi-threading. The chip can execute 2 threads at the same time, meaning 6 threads at once. Not a shabby multi-tasker if you ask me. There isn't another cpu that can do that.

Dude, keep talking. You make me laugh.

Enter: UltraSPARC T1. Sun makes these puppys with up to 8 cores, and each core can execute 4 threads simultaneously. That's 32 threads at once. And power consumption for the chip is about that of a light bulb.

 

[exmacuser]

Dude, keep talking. You make me laugh.

Enter: UltraSPARC T1. Sun makes these puppys with up to 8 cores, and each core can execute 4 threads simultaneously. That's 32 threads at once. And power consumption for the chip is about that of a light bulb.

Yet, another perfect example of the RISC processor. My GIS machine is a Sun, I am familiar. I do love my Unix. But get serious, Apple's are already overpriced.

 

[Brother Michael]

This is a beta of Vista, it will probably much better once they take the debugging and logging code out.

Something tells me that they should save everyone the trouble and leave the debugging and logging code in...they might need it.

 

[BGil]

I really don't think you want to see the same benches run on Vista, particularly the 64-bit version. Vista is much faster than XP just as Windows 2003 and everything MS has released based on that kernel is. The memory management and multitasking capabilites are well beyond were Tiger is now.

Then it will be Leopard woopin' on Vista. For the amount of effort being put into Vista, with it's numerous delays and with MS's history of rolling out new OS's, I wonder if Vista is going to be a hit, or a belly flop.

Good releases from MS.

DOS 2.1 - finally got a decent workable OS
DOS 3.3 - solved many issues
DOS 5.0 - the best release to date
Windows 3.1 - rescued everyone from the disastrous 3.0 version
Windows 2000 Pro - (really NT 5) the last decent OS they have made

With their history, they do not have much of a track record for getting it right early on. For those folk required to work in the MS world, I hope Vista finally throws off the moronic design paradigm that has plagued Windows since Windows 95.

Windows Server 2003 was a very good release. And it's one of the most secure server platforms you can get.

So then what about aunts and grandmas that also get viruses? Are they downloading illegal software and looking at porn too?

Still just making excuses based on your own experiences, which seem a far cry from what appears to be a majority of PC users.

You'd be surprised. If you ever get a chance to talk to the Geek Squad or service people at Best Buy or CompUSA they'll tell you that the biggest proliferator of malwae on Windows is Kazaa. Nearly everyone and their momma uses it.

No nonsense at all. Here's why I haven't gotten any viruses the past years:

- I don't surf less reputable porn sites
- I don't download pirated software
- I don't open strange e-mail attachments

An even better solution would be to just use hotmail, gmail, or anyother service for your email (forward your mail there if you need to). The phrishing filters and built in virus scanners make it so you'll never get an infected email.

 

[Billy Boo Bob]

An even better solution would be to just use hotmail, gmail, or anyother service for your email (forward your mail there if you need to). The phrishing filters and built in virus scanners make it so you'll never get an infected email.

I forward most of my domain mail through my cable mail. I don't know about virus blocking, but it sure did cut down a lot of my spam. Not all of it, but the count dropped dramatically.