Apple Music Apple Music lossless over Bluetooth - Am I crazy?

[vitamanic]

For some reason, when I toggle on lossless while listening via my Sony XM4 over bluetooth, the difference in dynamic range is glaringly obvious. I notice this both on Mac and on my iPhone.

What confuses me is all of the documentation saying lossless isn't supported over Bluetooth, yet, the dynamic range increase is super apparent.

Is the app streaming lossless (and its superior dynamic range) anyway while you have Bluetooth connected with whatever and just encoding it to AAC before transmission? I was under the impression that if you had lossless toggled with Bluetooth on that streams would default back down to 256 AAC.

To be clear, I'm not saying the audio fidelity is noticeable whatsoever, It's an obvious increase in dynamic range only.

 

[Julien]

Not crazy but you are likely confusing perceived dynamic range increases (most modern music has VERY limited dynamic range anyway) with a difference in attenuation levels. Don't feel bad since even the most golden eared engineers are easy fooled by a couple of dB level difference. Sound levels MUST be carefully calibrated and matched to make a meaningful comparison.

If streaming lossless and then transcoding on the "fly" in the iPhone to AAC BT you would be getting a lower quality. Apple transcoded on computers that are detected for this and can make multiple passes at a slower "playback" speed analyzing the data for the best bits. So the Apple transcoded AAC would be in all likelihood a higher quality track.

 

[vitamanic]

Not crazy but you are likely confusing perceived dynamic range increases (most modern music has VERY limited dynamic range anyway) with a difference in attenuation levels. Don't feel bad since even the most golden eared engineers are easy fooled by a couple of dB level difference. Sound levels MUST be carefully calibrated and matched to make a meaningful comparison.

If streaming lossless and then transcoding on the "fly" in the iPhone to AAC BT you would be getting a lower quality. Apple transcoded on computers that are detected for this and can make multiple passes at a slower "playback" speed analyzing the data for the best bits. So the Apple transcoded AAC would be in all likelihood a higher quality track.

I was intentionally listening to older music because of how crunched new releases are.

I went ahead and went back to test again both wired and wireless and can still notice a significant difference. The most noticeable difference being in sub bass and midrange separation.

Of all things, I was listening to Enema of the State by Blink-182 since I knew that album had a ton of high treble presence. There’s an unmistakable difference with lossless on and off when it comes to dynamic range. Make sure you switch tracks after toggling to reload the stream.

 

[PeytonT123]

I've also noticed that certain elements in songs are shining more in the Lossless versions than they were before.

 

[magicMac]

Are we 100% sure iOS isn’t supporting sony LDAC over Bluetooth? Apple has been known to quietly (and perhaps reluctantly) add small features and not mention them if it doesn’t fit with their agenda/story/other products.

for the owner with the XM4, if you have access to a Mac it would be interesting if you could do a blutoothd trace in the console app with your iPhone connected to the Mac and look for codec during A2DP negotiation.

 

[CaTOAGU]

Not sure, but I’ve got a pair of Plantronics Backbeat Pro’s and when streaming to them over Bluetooth from my Mac Mini I get the lossless icon in Apple Music. I didn’t think they were good enough for that or that bluetooth in general was capable of it.

 

[jairopena]

Are we 100% sure iOS isn’t supporting sony LDAC over Bluetooth?

it isn’t. In the connect app it should show LDAC but it’s still AAC. Remember LDAC is proprietary and Apple wouldn’t even bother to pay license fees just for some Sony headphones owners.

 

[AJTC]

I think the reason it sounds better (and the reason I have lossless turned on even though I’m using AirPods) is because the older ripped AAC files on Apple’s servers aren’t Apple Digital Masters and the way songs were encoded at the time years ago might not have been as good as it is now - it looks like iTunes/Apple Music may be getting better at encoding all the time based on the fact that the File tab of Get Info in Apple Music says what version the file was encoded with.

The lossless version of older/non-Apple Digital Masters is likely a better source and I think this is why it sounds better than the 256kbps AAC versions of some songs even if the AirPods are converting from lossless to lossy on the fly.

 

[magicMac]

it isn’t. In the connect app it should show LDAC but it’s still AAC. Remember LDAC is proprietary and Apple wouldn’t even bother to pay license fees just for some Sony headphones owners.
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Only the decoder in the headphones is licened; the encoder side in the phone is open source, as per its inclusion since Android 8.

 

[vitamanic]

I think the reason it sounds better (and the reason I have lossless turned on even though I’m using AirPods) is because the older ripped AAC files on Apple’s servers aren’t Apple Digital Masters and the way songs were encoded at the time years ago might not have been as good as it is now - it looks like iTunes/Apple Music may be getting better at encoding all the time based on the fact that the File tab of Get Info in Apple Music says what version the file was encoded with.

The lossless version of older/non-Apple Digital Masters is likely a better source and I think this is why it sounds better than the 256kbps AAC versions of some songs even if the AirPods are converting from lossless to lossy on the fly.

This makes sense to me. I don’t remember seeing the Apple Digital Master tag on the music app before this recent update. Totally possible that I just didn’t notice it before as well.

 

[Ryand123]

I've been listening to lossless through Tidal or Amazon Music HD for a few years with bluetooth headphones when I'm at work. There's no question you can hear a difference even with bluetooth headphones. The source impacts the sound too. Garbage in, garbage out. Now if they just find a solution for wireless lossless ability. Rumor has it they are planning to use AirPlay for that on mobile devices.

 

[Shanghaichica]

I've been listening to lossless through Tidal or Amazon Music HD for a few years with bluetooth headphones when I'm at work. There's no question you can hear a difference even with bluetooth headphones. The source impacts the sound too. Garbage in, garbage out. Now if they just find a solution for wireless lossless ability. Rumor has it they are planning to use AirPlay for that on mobile devices.

That’s how it’s always worked with TVs. Even if the TV can’t support the resolution if you put a better quality signal in you will get better quality out. So yes if the source material is higher quality you should be able to get some of the benefits through Bluetooth headphones even if it’s the not the full lossless quality.