Apple Music Spatial Audio to Get Dynamic Head Tracking in the Fall

[Kuckuckstein]

You don’t need visuals for head tracking. Dolby Atmos encodes the position of the sound in space. When you turn your head, tracking will keep those positions static.

Of course you don’t but you need a reference position to begin with. If they have found a way to determine when your head looks straight ahead then all is good. Looking down or up is easy to figure out, but rotating your head relative to the body / shoulders … how do the headsets know it’s not the entire body turned? That trick would be worth a patent 👍

 

[Nuvi]

Having head tracking on music only content makes very little sense on many listening situations. Think about when you are walking down the street and the vocal and instrument directions keep shifting. If you’re sitting down there is added immersion but when moving it’s just disorienting. You can try how it feels when moving with current head tracked spatial audio with video. Head tracking makes perfect sense with video and audio content, some sense if you are sitting down (music only) and absolutely no sense at all when moving (music only).

 

[threesixty360]

Can't say i'm a big fan of the spatial audio mixes so far.

The drums lose all punch and weight - they sound pushed back in the mix on the drum heavy things i've tried out - the vocals are too much of the focus for me and everything is swimming in too much reverb. It's like giving someone a new tool for the first time and they go a bit nuts with it.

The other irony of course is that whilst it's mixed in a multi-channel setup we're only hearing it in stereo anyway - you can't defy physics, Airpods have two speakers one on the left and one on the right - you're not hearing Dolby Atmos - you're hearing Dolby Atmos mixed down to Stereo.

It's an interesting concept but generally I think i'll have it turned off. I certainly wouldn't want head tracking enabled for the centre channel either - so if they ever do mixes I prefer hopefully there's an option to enable or disable that.

I thought it was just me!
I'm not so sure about this either.

I've noticed with the spatial audio the track volume goes down and that drums dont "knock". Its like they've focussed on bringing high frequencies further forward and increased the reverb to give things presence. Which may be good for live stuff but maybe not everything..

Comparing it back and forth with Tidal High quality I dont think its necessarily better. Just different?

 

[Kuckuckstein]

Likewise. I find the bass gets drowned out too to the points it’s almost non existent, turning spatial audio off and on during a supported song I actually prefer it off (at least to my ears anyway)

I haven’t tried it myself, but as I already expressed in a reply to an earlier post, spatial audio through headsets is not just about the mix, it is mainly about the Headset in relation to your head’s shape.
Some will be lucky and have the perfect fit, and here I do not mean how good it feels to wear them. Simply, if I would hook up my brain to somebody else’s head and ears, the differences in size and shape would ruin the spatial audio, because the brain expects a different timing and Filtering.
So unless there is some shape detection or training wizard (as for face recognition) some will just not be lucky. Every spatial demo of other systems before has suffered from that last bit of detail.

 

[B/D]

Damn I didn't know this was the case with HomePods, bah. I guess we can Airplay to them the stereo version though.

And if you use direct airplay from an IOS device, you also guarantee that they are playing back the lossless file. I think that currently if you ask Siri in the homepods to play a song it will retrieve the AAC version from Apple servers.

Hence the need of a software update for them (Apple said it will come in the fall).

 

[Snollygoster]

Ignore the artist and content, just listen for the sound itself. Have the settings app open to the Atmos settings. Switch it on and off as you listen.

You don’t notice a single difference, not even in the chorus or at the outro (2:06 time marker)?

It’s the difference between a kiddie pool and an olympic diving pool in terms of depth.

wow it's exactly the same thing in my ears. wish I had yours.

I mean there's a big difference but you're not hearing surround sound, you're still hearing stereo but you're hearing the track mixed in a multi-channel environment - so they've basically just mixed it differently and treated the sounds differently.

there is no way I can tell which is which if I am not looking at the settings in my iPhone

on the other hand I can definitely get the spatial effect in apple tv shows for example. for music it's just a gimmick and some logos.

 

[Nuvi]

I can. Bass is noticeably less pronounced, and things are a bit more amped up in the higher ends. But I don't hear much separation or anything "spatial".

I think music overall is bit “mushy” when “spatial” is turned on. This is very apparent when comparing lossless audio to “spatial”. Lossless sounds brighter than normal AAC 256 and with “spatial” the difference is even stronger.

 

[MacKid]

—

 

[B/D]

@dannys1 I was wrong. Currently the homepods does not support Atmos music on their own. From Apple support:

Can I listen to music from Apple Music in Dolby Atmos on HomePod speakers?​

Currently HomePod speakers must be connected to your Apple TV 4K to play music in Dolby Atmos.

 

[Saturnine]

Currently listening to When Doves Cry (2015 Paisley Park Remix) by Prince & the Revolution on AirPods Pro, from iOS 15.

I have 'Spatial Audio' turned on and obviously 'Spatialise Stereo' is not available and I am damn near certain there's head tracking happening. The vocals in the first verse (00:29 to 01:00) are clearly moving from centre, to left and right as I turn my head. It's interesting because it's only the vocals that are moving, and not the entire mix.

If I keep my head 'forward', however, and move my phone, the vocals stay centered.

If I turn off Atmos in the Music Settings, there is a night and day difference. The mix sounds very flat without Atmos, by comparison.

 

[Gee4orce]

I first listened to the Spatial Audio playlist on my iPhone which is running 14.6 and was a bit disappointed, as it was just a slightly different stereo mix. Then I tried it on my iPad what is now running the 15 Beta, and it was a totally different experience, with head tracking, and a much more dynamic stereo field. I wonder if people here who say they’ve tried it and didn’t like it or didn’t notice the difference are having the same experience I had on the iPhone. Either it isn’t fully rolled out to all devices yet, or you really need iOS15 to fully experience it.

 

[dannys1]

I haven’t tried it myself, but as I already expressed in a reply to an earlier post, spatial audio through headsets is not just about the mix, it is mainly about the Headset in relation to your head’s shape.
Some will be lucky and have the perfect fit, and here I do not mean how good it feels to wear them. Simply, if I would hook up my brain to somebody else’s head and ears, the differences in size and shape would ruin the spatial audio, because the brain expects a different timing and Filtering.
So unless there is some shape detection or training wizard (as for face recognition) some will just not be lucky. Every spatial demo of other systems before has suffered from that last bit of detail.

Except you're just listening through Stereo headphones, so all you're hearing is a different mix...in stereo.

In fact i'm pretty sure I could just recreate the sound of the spatial audio in stereo - it can't do anything but pan it left and right when mixes down to stereo anyway.

 

[dannys1]

The vocals in the first verse (00:29 to 01:00) are clearly moving from centre, to left and right as I turn my head. It's interesting because it's only the vocals that are moving, and not the entire mix.

That's how spatial audio works with movies. All they're doing is mixing down every surround channel to left/right of stereo and then anchoring the centre audio channel (where all main vocals will be mixed, or all speed in a movie) to a certain point, in this case the phone and using the accelerometers to judge pan position.

They could have done the whole mix at any time with stereo, you'd just pan it right or left as you turned your head - it'd sound terrible.

 

[dannys1]

there is no way I can tell which is which if I am not looking at the settings in my iPhone

What are you listening on?

I mean if you can't tell the difference between two completely different mixes where things are panned in different directions and have different levels of FX and reverb on them, you definitely don't need to worry about lossless audio

 

[dannys1]

Well movies is different to music as with films you are seeing the source from where audio should come from. Music doesn’t need you to face a certain way, it can place instruments in a virtual space around you and then as you move head it adjusts to make it sound spatial.

See above it does exactly what it does with all other dolby atmos tracks in iOS - anchors the centre channel to the phone, everything else stays stereo.

 

[mazz0]

It clearly doesn't - i've no idea what you guys think you're hearing who are saying this. (Unless you're running iOS15 beta in which apparently it does work)

Yeah I am. Must be an OS thing then.

 

[mazz0]

Except you're just listening through Stereo headphones, so all you're hearing is a different mix...in stereo.

It's not necessarily that simple though is it. After all you only have two ears but you can still tell which direction sounds are coming from around you in 3D. You're forgetting about HTRF.

I'm not saying Spatial Audio uses HRTF mind, you. I personally don't get any sort of 3D positionality so it could well just be stereo with some reverb and panning, but some people tell me they are getting a clear sense of position, which would either indicate some clever HRTF-like trickery going on, or a placebo-effect on those people.

 

[Costino1]

I dont get this.

So let's say I have my phone on my desk or in my pocket and im listening to music.....if I turn my body, ill only get sound in one ear (or much less sound in one ear)? I dont see the point of this. For a movie....sure I can kind of understand a bit more, but music....eh...

 

[dannys1]

It's not necessarily that simple though is it. After all you only have two ears but you can still tell which direction sounds are coming from around you in 3D. You're forgetting about HTRF.

I'm not saying Spatial Audio uses HRTF mind, you. I personally don't get any sort of 3D positionality so it could well just be stereo with some reverb and panning, but some people tell me they are getting a clear sense of position, which would either indicate some clever HRTF-like trickery going on, or a placebo-effect on those people.

Yes but ears are a lot more intricate than a tweeter or woofer. We can hear sound in 360 degrees but a woofer (like any sound generating source) can only create it in one direct - you can't compare ears with speakers.

The mix engineers are mixing it in Dolby Atmos (probably 5.1 most likely) and supplying it to Apple in that format, then Apple is mixing it down to stereo for headphones. What they can do with Dolby Atmos though is track the centre channel like they do with movies currently and anchor it to a point/pan it around as you move - which is what they're going to do in iOS15. If that's actually a good thing is another question.

The only way you'll be able to hear any surround type effect on these mixes is to actually listen to then on a proper Dolby Atmos sound system - I suspect they have mixed backing vocals on the rear speakers etc, would be quite interesting to hear them actually come from behind you.

 

[dannys1]

I dont get this.

So let's say I have my phone on my desk or in my pocket and im listening to music.....if I turn my body, ill only get sound in one ear (or much less sound in one ear)? I dont see the point of this. For a movie....sure I can kind of understand a bit more, but music....eh...

No all the mix will stay in a stereo mix in both ears - the centre channel (which be just the lead vocal in almost every case) will stay anchored to the phone so when you turn your head the music moves with you the singer stays as if they're coming out of the phone.

Still meh, but that's how it works.

 

[xyz01]

It's working already in the iOS15 Beta, as far as I can tell. I move my head and the music sound field stays fixed in the same position. eg. the vocals appear to be anchored to a certain place in the room around me.

Honestly, I think this is a total game changer. It's like stereo on steroids.

But why would I want it?

Surround sound by itself is very nice - some SACDs I have use this to create a much better soundstage - but why would I want it to change if my head moves, e.g. to look for cars before crossing the street, or whatever reason?

I already have spatial audio with head tracking for video, and while it is impressive technically, it's also feels like a gimmick. It's useless, and not something I need or want. Now, if it was combined with VR it would be really nice obviously... but so far, no VR.

Looking very much forward to finally getting surround sound (no head tracking needed) on my AppleTV, though

 

[skitidetdu]

Can't say i'm a big fan of the spatial audio mixes so far.

The drums lose all punch and weight - they sound pushed back in the mix on the drum heavy things i've tried out - the vocals are too much of the focus for me and everything is swimming in too much reverb. It's like giving someone a new tool for the first time and they go a bit nuts with it.

The other irony of course is that whilst it's mixed in a multi-channel setup we're only hearing it in stereo anyway - you can't defy physics, Airpods have two speakers one on the left and one on the right - you're not hearing Dolby Atmos - you're hearing Dolby Atmos mixed down to Stereo.

It's an interesting concept but generally I think i'll have it turned off. I certainly wouldn't want head tracking enabled for the centre channel either - so if they ever do mixes I prefer hopefully there's an option to enable or disable that.

Sounds like the effect that the virtual surround options on multichannel receivers have on stereo sources.

 

[xyz01]

-"Please ignore that none of our audio-stuff can handle lossless. Instead, enjoy this gimmick"
Honestly, this is about as useful as "Dolby Pro Logic II Music" which was a fad about 20 years ago.

I disagree slightly.

Now, not handling lossless audio on even very recently released high end headphones is bad - and not something I should expect of Apple. The AirPod Max were released just 6 months ago, and missing this is just embarrassing. I agree there.

However, surround sound can be very nice... Although I think most of the benefit is going to 3.1. E.g. I have a very good SACD of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue that really benefits from this, compared to a normal CD (or lossless streaming). Unfortunately, not available on Apple Music in this way.

 

[skitidetdu]

No all the mix will stay in a stereo mix in both ears - the centre channel (which be just the lead vocal in almost every case) will stay anchored to the phone so when you turn your head the music moves with you the singer stays as if they're coming out of the phone.

Still meh, but that's how it works.

Bass is usually mixed in the middle as well.

 

[ntlman]

Oy, this Apple Music announcement is even more indicative of the fact that Apple Music has no idea wtf they're aiming for.

To recap:

1. They're now offering a lossless tier that none of their headphones released in the last 3 yrs can support, because they want to offer a music experience the artist intended you to hear
2. At the same time, they are offering spatial audio which overrides the way the artist intended you to hear the music

Given that most popular music genre recording artists incorporate varying levels of overdubbing and MIDI effects, and most live performances are presented through a mixing board's specific settings, spatial audio sounds like a gimmick that doesn't reflect actual real life audio experience.

I would also really be curious to know how spatial audio knows when you have stopped turning or if it will suddenly present music sounding as if you have your back to the live music being performed. Is it truly spatial if the volume doesnt change when you start walking fwd/bkwd as would naturally happen at a live music performance?