Apple Must Repay $14.5 Billion in Back Taxes, EU Commission Rules

[twietee]

The fault is the Irish government's, but Apple is culpable.

Agreed.

Good read:
How Apple Helped Create Ireland’s Economies, Real and Fantastical

Summary: "The hardest faith to have, today, is that the future will be better, that steady, broadly shared economic growth will return. This is particularly bad news for smaller countries such as Ireland that have prospered by living on the edges of a growing global economy. Today, the major players—the U.S., Germany, China, and the U.K.—don’t feel so generous and hopeful. And they get to write the rules. A secure Ireland, one that will be economically healthy for years to come, needs to be built on a “real” economy, one based on strong investment in innovation, manufacturing, and valuable services that other people want to pay for. It needs to be based on things done in Ireland, by people who live in Ireland—who pay Irish taxes."

 

[Kabeyun]

No I did not say or imply that, I said it's Americas own fault for not getting the money of Apple, the only reason Apple won't being it back to America is to dodge paying the 33% tax it'll be charged.
The US government can make changes whenever they want. The EU is clearing up the mess all this illegal tax dodging has caused, and if you read all the news about it you'll also realise European companies as well as American ones are in the firing lines.

Kinda funny, but your explanation here confirms you do think this mess is the fault of US tax policy.

It isn't. True, a high US corporate tax rate may have been what drove Apple and a host of others to seek pathways to a lower tax burden. But no one made Ireland establish a tax code with it so extremely low. This is between Ireland and the EU.

And I couldn't care less about what Apple "should have known." Somebody's selling pizzas for a dollar and I'll keep buying them, as long as it's a real business and not in some back alley. Doesn't matter an iota to me how they balance their books. And I sure as hell don't expect some authority to come in later and tell me I have to pay the balance for what all those pizzas were supposed to cost according to them.

 

[cube]

I don't care: free trade

I care: fair trade

 

[thewitt]

I don't care: free trade

I care: fair trade

Who defines "fair?"

You? Me? The EU socialists in Belgium?

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

Who defines "fair?"

You? Me? The EU socialists in Belgium?

The EU gets to decide what is "fair" for trade into/outof the EU. If you don't like it, don't trade with the EU.

 

[cube]

Who defines "fair?"

You? Me? The EU socialists in Belgium?

Fairtrade International, for example.

 

[brianvictor7]

That is the biggest load of bunk you can imagine.

The taxation system is supposed to be paying for the services that we all use. Your taxes helped cover the costs of laying roads and electrical grid that everyone uses. If everyone pays their share then the costs are not shifted to one party or group to the benefit of others. Do you think that Apple doesn't use the roads to have their iPhones and other products shipped around? Do you think they don't use the electrical grid in their operations? Yet according to your idea, as they are making money for the select few who have apple stocks, it's all right that they get to use the services without paying anything for them.
The problem is that greed has taken root. If Apple paid their taxes then the investor would not make nearly as much money. Sure the share holders would not have as much profit to spend, but on the equal side of the coin, the rest of the country would not have to shoulder the tax bill that Apple skarfed off on, and so they would now have a bit extra coin in their pocket to pay for other goods and services. The exact same money is in the equation, just the who has it changes. If you are a big investor, then the deal looks bad for you. if you are joe public, then you get a tax break and that is good. You can afford to buy that next new iPhone every two years rather than having to decide between new tech or if you eat tonight.

Refer to my earlier. If you don't like it, change the law. Don't expect a company (or a government) to do *anything* out of the goodness of its heart (they don't have one). That's what charities and churches are for.
[doublepost=1472859081][/doublepost]

Apple is caught up in a situation of their own making. If they repatriate those funds to the USA they will have to pay
US corporate tax. They will be able to claim credit in the US for taxes they paid overseas on those earning. However, they in fact paid almost zero tax on those earning between the Irish deal and the Caribbean company. That means all of it will be liable to tax.

They will likely continue to borrow in the US to fund development knowing that they have this hugh cash pile. Those funds will never be repatriated to the US unless at some point they get a one time US tax break to bring the funds back at a peppercorn tax of say ten percent.
[doublepost=1472643771][/doublepost]
I wish I understood where those of you suggesting that the EU change the law is getting that nonsense from. Nothing has changed except enforcement.

For many years it has been illegal for US individuals to have overseas bank accounts and not report them. Many were doing it for years and getting away with it and avoiding US taxes. A few years ago the US decided to enforce the law properly and went after the banks forcing them to disclose their customers. This is no different, no law has changed enforcement has changed.

This fails to pass the sniff test. How is it that *the* highest profile company has gotten away with something so supposedly massively illegal ... unless it was legal all along? This has been a talking point for over a decade. How is it that ONLY now the EU is getting around to "enforcing" something it should have noticed and done something about a DECADE ago (2003-present per the article)? Answer: the EU is cash strapped because they can't manage their own affairs properly, so now they looking to get money by hook or crook. In this case, crook. Apple didn't do anything illegal. They did something super smart as a company. As I have said elsewhere, don't expect a company to pay some nebulous idea of its "fair share" of taxes if it doesn't have a legal compulsion to do so. I'm not saying it is right. I'm just saying that is how it is. Companies (and governments) don't have hearts. They have selfish goals that occasionally intersect our own selfish goals (like our desire for roads and other public services that taxes pay for). If we don't like how little they are paying, then a law needs to be changed. Clearly, an old one doesn't need to be "enforced" or else we darn well should have gotten around to it by now.
[doublepost=1472860265][/doublepost]

That is the biggest load of bunk you can imagine.

The taxation system is supposed to be paying for the services that we all use. Your taxes helped cover the costs of laying roads and electrical grid that everyone uses. If everyone pays their share then the costs are not shifted to one party or group to the benefit of others. Do you think that Apple doesn't use the roads to have their iPhones and other products shipped around? Do you think they don't use the electrical grid in their operations? Yet according to your idea, as they are making money for the select few who have apple stocks, it's all right that they get to use the services without paying anything for them.
The problem is that greed has taken root. If Apple paid their taxes then the investor would not make nearly as much money. Sure the share holders would not have as much profit to spend, but on the equal side of the coin, the rest of the country would not have to shoulder the tax bill that Apple skarfed off on, and so they would now have a bit extra coin in their pocket to pay for other goods and services. The exact same money is in the equation, just the who has it changes. If you are a big investor, then the deal looks bad for you. if you are joe public, then you get a tax break and that is good. You can afford to buy that next new iPhone every two years rather than having to decide between new tech or if you eat tonight.

"Yet according to your idea, as they are making money for the select few who have apple stocks, it's all right that they get to use the services without paying anything for them."

Actually, I agree with your reasoning. I would personally like Apple to pay more taxes because I don't care to pay for what is essentially a freeloading company where public services are concerned. But here is the rub: they are paying exactly what our laws say they *should* pay (their lawyers aren't stupid...they get paid oodles of money to be certain they are on sound legal ground). Time to change the law. Good luck with that.

 

[mrex]

laws and laws... i cant believe that someone really thinks that apple had no influence and they thought they can play with this game.

im quite sure they knew excatly what they are doing and took that risk.