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What do you mean take the risk they never decided to take? The small artist is deciding whether to 'YES' offer music on Apple Music, or 'NO' do not offer music on Apple Music.

The claim is that if you say NO to being part of the 3-month free trail that Apple will drop you from iTunes all together.

Did you understand that small artists make their most money from playing live?! The more exposure they get ANYWHERE, the more people know about them when they perform in a local pub, coffee shop, bar, or event!

Touring is expensive and venues are taking bigger cuts (and even cuts of merchandise sales) which means its even harder to make any profit from touring (not like it was a giant, risk averse cash cow to begin with). The entire venture is risky but I don't blame artists for wanting to get less screwed over and nickeled & dimed by giant corporations worth billions of dollars (be it major labels or Apple).
 
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Why does the small artist have to take the risk they never decided to take? Why can't they take their music off and in five months go back in?

The artists/bands don't have to pay for the infrastructure to distribute the music as they weren't the ones who decided to offer this platform.

If you do a little research... Spotify from 2012-2013 paid on average about .00521 cents per streamed track. So, let us say that I am a small independent artist who gets 10,000 streams per month on average.

That means on spotify, in three months, I would make $156.30. It is something I will give you that, but at $52.10 a month, I am more likely to make more on the exposure of being available rather than on how many times you clicked play that month.

Just sayin.. I think artists ought to be upset with streamed music in general, although it was started to try and get pirates back into paying something for legal music.
 
What people don't get is that once this service launches, streaming and itunes purchases are going to tank for the rest of the summer. I suspect Apple Music is going to be very well done. If I'm listening to that, then I'm not listening to Spotify. If I'm not listening to Spotify then Spotify isn't making any ad money.

Apple is going to push this out and this Summer is going to be a blood bath for the records/songs part of the music industry.

But then lots of us will end up liking the Apple Music service, trusting Apple to make it better, and we will sign up for a the monthly service which cash will primarily go to the music industry. So there is a happy ending. Just these three months are going to be tough.
 
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The claim is that if you say NO to being part of the 3-month free trail that Apple will drop you from iTunes all together.



Touring is expensive and venues are taking bigger cuts (and even cuts of merchandise sales) which means its even harder to make any profit from touring (not like it was a giant, risk averse cash cow to begin with). The entire venture is risky but I don't blame artists for wanting to get less screwed over and nickeled & dimed by giant corporations worth billions of dollars (be it major labels or Apple).
I will give you that, touring has become more expensive, but it still is the best area of revenue stream for any artist.

If you really dig down to the dirt, the consumers are the ones who made Apple, and the consumers who started streaming music instead of buying it made Apple start on Apple Music. It is just a giant circle of "well the people want this so either you are in or out."
I dont blame the artists for being upset either, but there is the exposure advantage which i think is huge.

And Apple did respond according to the article saying that they are not removing people from iTunes. Maybe this is true or not true. We will find out soon enough though.
 
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Did you even read the whole article? You know, the part where apple basically said "he's lying"?
Oh, so the only thing Apple *can* say, they did. Oh I feel better. If this guy is lying, he has a major screw loose. Not sure why he would want to lie.
 
Just sayin.. I think artists ought to be upset with streamed music in general, although it was started to try and get pirates back into paying something for legal music.

They are, hence Taylor Swift pulling out of Spotify and Jay Z starting Tidal. For most artists though they don't have the 'weight' or financial resources to do that. They are in a position where they pretty much have to chase every opportunity even if means giving away their music and hoping that maybe, somehow, somewhere it will start paying off all the debt they incurred to make the album, go on tour, etc.,.


And Apple did respond according to the article saying that they are not removing people from iTunes. Maybe this is true or not true. We will find out soon enough though.

I'm waiting to see if any other artists corroborate the claim. It does sound pretty heavy handed for Apple to pull artists from the iTMS if they don't sign up for the Apple Music free trial.
 
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apple to oranges buddy every MONTHLY SERVICE i can think of offer a free trial so this is nothing they cracked up ... furthermore the artist can opt not to have their music up there so....whats to complain about

Because we want to get a share of the famous “Apple Cash Pile”. I am an artist, I want to be very famous and very very rich in a very very very quickly manner, like some other lucky artists in the past, if Apple just give me 1% of its cash pile, to me it’ll be “dream come true”. 1% s no big deal to Apple. Isn’t this all good for everyone!
 
well, the artists are worried about a real threat. When Apple offers this three months free, it is going to affect revenues from other current paid sources since a good chunk of them may come over to free. In fact, this is a marketing technique to attract new customers to Apple Music. So there is a legitimate concern.

Albums solve this problem by brining a portion of the future earnings to the present. Apple should be able to hire an underwriter who can work this out so it is less of a concern for the artists. Atleast for those artists who are good enough that they are going to get higher total revenues after three months.

It is a financial problem which have been solved with 'innovation' by companies who are willing to take some financial risk for some reward. When a lot of artists are involved, they can work something out that is agreeable to everyone.

We all take a dim view of finance people since we feel we get taken and we perceive them to be greedy but financial products of this kind solve real world problems faced in this situation. Apple of course has to cooperate in that manner with a trusted middle party but there are quite a few such parties out there. Insurance companies do this all the time.
 
Confirming one unverified event with another unverified event. Nice!

Yes because the DOJ and FTC have nothing better to do than to investigate Apple.

The attorneys general of New York and Connecticut are investigating Apple and several major music labels to determine whether their negotiations over Apple’s newly unveiled streaming service, Apple Music, violated antitrust law.

Eric Schneiderman of New York and George Jepsen of Connecticut are probing whether the tech giant pressured the labels, or whether the companies conspired with one another, to stop supporting “freemium” rival services like Spotify, the New York Times reports.
 
Regardless of this kerfuffle, Apple are devaluing music by offering it free for three months, which is sad. Not paying the musicians, either, is spitting in their face.

I can understand why some musicians, like The Beatles and Taylor Swift, don't wish to be party to this degradation.

Perhaps Apple should offer the contents of the App Store and the Mac App Store plus In-App Purchases free for everyone for three months. Then we'll see if they're prepared to eat their own dog food.

You are aware that Spotify has been offering 3 month premium streaming for $1 to entice new users, are you not?
So 3 months for $1 is not "totally undervalued?"... or is it just that Spotify doesn't have an apple logo on it that makes it the white knight?

Spotify is operating at a loss, and charging an extra dollar for it. Yes, supposedly they are paying artists during that 3 month trial period, buit I've not seen any breakdown on what that payout is, or if it is part of a different tier structure.

What I do know is that these artists and labels do not, at all, have to agree to put their music on Apple's streaming service.
 
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The best approach towards Apple Music for these Indie labels, of course, is to wait for the service to grow. Let the big labels draw in the consumers and then, once the majority of the user base has already used up their free trial, you can add your products to a market that is primarily made up of paying subscribers.
Bingo! The issue for the indies is fear of the unknown. The safest tactic for them is to wait, and see what the real-world results turn out to be, before signing on the dotted line.

The labels are worried that this will be like an iPhone launch - a huge number of sales in the first few weeks to people who are currently iTunes' best customers, with sales at a lower, more manageable rate after initial demand has been satisfied. That pattern could indeed restrict revenues dramatically in the beginning.

I think the effect will be different, for several reasons. First, a fair number of iTunes' best customers are into possession/collecting - they love the idea of having a huge personal library. They know they could leave Apple tomorrow and, as long as they keep backing up their iTunes library, they'll have it forever. They know that quitting a subscription service means they lose everything they added to their playlists from that service. Second, I don't see the same kind of pent-up demand we see for a new iPhone. People haven't been delaying their subscription purchases until the next model arrives. If people like the service, then sales will build month over month as the word-of-mouth spreads - if there's any pain at all (which I doubt), it could be worse six months from now.

There's a third fear, which is that the subscription model earns them less than they'd earn on per-download sales. They already have data on this, since Spotify et. al. have been around for a while. If they've been losing money, then they need to stop working with every subscription service, not just Apple.

The pay-one-price model has amused me for a long time. When done correctly by the vendor, the average consumer ends up paying more than they would have paid otherwise. Theme park tickets are a good example of this. Rather than feel the pain of reaching into your pocket for each ride (or each time you need to buy another strip of ride tickets), people feel the pain once and quickly move beyond it. Some will try to milk that all-you-can-eat ticket for all it's worth, and believe they've beaten the system if they ride more rides than they believe the park operator expected them to ride. Many more will simply have a good time, and leave having spent more than they would have on individual ride tickets. On average, the park operator comes out ahead, and as long as they've had a good time, their customers will come back again.

The trick for Apple is to recruit not only iTunes' best customers (those who will definitely pay less), but enough of iTunes fair-to-middling customers as well (who will likely pay more than they currently do). As long as there are enough of the latter to balance the former, all will be good in the world.

The labels will be getting a pro-rata share of subscription revenues. This means that, if subscribers end up spending more on Apple Music subscriptions than they would have paid for per-downloaded music, then the labels (and Apple) come out ahead. Since neither Apple nor the labels want to lose the money they could have made selling individual downloads, chances are that the subscription service will result in an equal (or more likely greater) profit, rather than less.

Auto-renewing subscriptions have been one of the great cash cows of publishing (especially the web). I don't expect that to change for music subscriptions. All the move to subscription music does is put the record labels on the same footing as the Hollywood TV and film companies who get their monthly cut from the cable companies. I can speak from my own company's experience - the pro-rata royalties we pay out for our subscription sales are substantially higher, on a per-copy basis, than the royalties we pay per copy for retail sales of the same works.
 
apple to oranges buddy every MONTHLY SERVICE i can think of offer a free trial so this is nothing they cracked up ... furthermore the artist can opt not to have their music up there so....whats to complain about
There's nothing wrong with the free trial. it's who is expect to pick up the costs that is different.

With Spotifies free tier, The artists/studio still get paid. its not a lot, but there is still revenue for use of that media. it's add supported. For the free trial period, Spotify eats the cost out of their own pockets and still pay the artists

With Google's play free trial. Google eats the costs. They still pay their artists the contracted rate.


Apple is changing that. Apple wants the artists to eat the costs of free music for 3 months, so that Apple can give free time period to convince people to switch.

if you were an artist, wouldn't you question Apple's intention here?

They're pulling a "walmart". They're demanding their suppliers eat costs, and pay what Apple demands, because of their sheer size, if you want the exposure, you do what apple says or GTFO.

So as an artist you have the choice of either, eating 3 months of revenues from people using your music. Or you stay off Apple services, miss out on 100 million listeners (ballpark number out of my ass) and continue to receive streaming revenues off the competition.

It really comes down to nothing more than Apple using it's dominant power in the market to force other companies to fit into their business plans. Nothing more too it
 
Agree with everything you're saying but for the artists not paying Apple a dime for the investment costs... isn't that part of what Apple's cut is covering?

The artists absolutely benefit from that payment, though. Just as they benefit from the free trial. Give a little, get a lot. Sounds like a good system to me.
That's why they'd rather base their royalty payments off of actual paying customers, not freeloaders who bail after the first three months. Spotify barely pays anything to for those on the free music tier. And that is 75% of their music base.
 
There's nothing wrong with the free trial. it's who is expect to pick up the costs that is different.

With Spotifies free tier, The artists/studio still get paid. its not a lot, but there is still revenue for use of that media. it's add supported. For the free trial period, Spotify eats the cost out of their own pockets and still pay the artists

With Google's play free trial. Google eats the costs. They still pay their artists the contracted rate.


Apple is changing that. Apple wants the artists to eat the costs of free music for 3 months, so that Apple can give free time period to convince people to switch.

if you were an artist, wouldn't you question Apple's intention here?

They're pulling a "walmart". They're demanding their suppliers eat costs, and pay what Apple demands, because of their sheer size, if you want the exposure, you do what apple says or GTFO.

So as an artist you have the choice of either, eating 3 months of revenues from people using your music. Or you stay off Apple services, miss out on 100 million listeners (ballpark number out of my ass) and continue to receive streaming revenues off the competition.

It really comes down to nothing more than Apple using it's dominant power in the market to force other companies to fit into their business plans. Nothing more too it

While I don't agree with the practice, what I believe Apple is saying is this: Here's a higher royalty payment than what you will get from everyone else in exchange for fasting for three months.

I agree it's a douche move but they would rather pay higher royalties for paying customers than breaking the bank for a bunch of freeloaders.
 
I know this might be a bad comparison, butttttt..... How many people do you think tried a
There's nothing wrong with the free trial. it's who is expect to pick up the costs that is different.

With Spotifies free tier, The artists/studio still get paid. its not a lot, but there is still revenue for use of that media. it's add supported. For the free trial period, Spotify eats the cost out of their own pockets and still pay the artists

With Google's play free trial. Google eats the costs. They still pay their artists the contracted rate.


Apple is changing that. Apple wants the artists to eat the costs of free music for 3 months, so that Apple can give free time period to convince people to switch.

if you were an artist, wouldn't you question Apple's intention here?

They're pulling a "walmart". They're demanding their suppliers eat costs, and pay what Apple demands, because of their sheer size, if you want the exposure, you do what apple says or GTFO.

So as an artist you have the choice of either, eating 3 months of revenues from people using your music. Or you stay off Apple services, miss out on 100 million listeners (ballpark number out of my ass) and continue to receive streaming revenues off the competition.

It really comes down to nothing more than Apple using it's dominant power in the market to force other companies to fit into their business plans. Nothing more too it
Free market though, if you don't like the terms, then do not sign up... People are mad at this, but this is a foundation of business in the US, one that has enabled many possibilities for every company, big and small.
 
That's why they'd rather base their royalty payments off of actual paying customers, not freeloaders who bail after the first three months. Spotify barely pays anything to for those on the free music tier. And that is 75% of their music base.
I think you're missing the fundamental point here that more people will become paying customers if they have a free trial first than if they didn't offer a free trial.

The ad supported spotify membership never ends so there's no incentive to pay beyond waiting to get rid of the ads. Apple music members will have to pay after the three month trial or lose their membership. Two totally different things.

The free trial is going to bring in more paying customers, which will make the artists more money. It's as simple as that.
 
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Why don't they just opt-in starting in January? Many peoples trials will be over by then, no?

I don't think it will make much of a difference to their bottom line, but it seems like an easy fix?

Quiet with your logic and common sense! It has no place here. :D
 
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Soooo... does anyone have any idea on how TIDAL pays their artists during the trial period?

I do not, so I am actually asking... because TIDAL was marketed as the best streaming service to help artists, and not gouge them.
 
Here's my beef.

Firstly: Yes, Apple has every right to offer their music streaming service for 3 months for free. thats business. thats their "loss leader" to get people in the door.

What I have problems with is Apple trying to dictate to the suppliers (musicians / artists) that they wont get paid for the first 3 months.

Listen, in this case, Apple is a vendor for someone elses product. Just because Apple chooses that their service will be free for a period of time, doesn't mean that their suppliers should be forced to bear the brunt of that financial hardship.

Appple is giving us a discounted/free item, not at their expense, but the expenses of those who are producing the goods we wish to consume.

That to me is wrong. When your local burger place is doing a "2 for 1" special. They don't turn around and tell the beef producers to also give them 2 for 1 on their chuck, they still pay full price.

What Apple has done with this 3 months is unethical, and they're using their sheer size and momentum to force suppliers to eat apple costs.

You know that this three months is going to cost Apple a lot of money? Hardware isn't free and bandwidth is not free...
 
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Why don't they just opt-in starting in January? Many peoples trials will be over by then, no?

I don't think it will make much of a difference to their bottom line, but it seems like an easy fix?

I think the problem is these guys realize that many of their potential customers are going to start using the free Apple Music service no matter what groups are on it as long as enough are there. So they won't be buying on iTunes and they will cancel their Spotify subscription or stop using the ad supported services.
 
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