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I may be reading this wrong, but nowhere on that original article does is say Apple aren't honoring warranties, just not providing service support (as on this page).

If you buy an iPhone and don't have AT&T service, it looks like Apple will be treating your iPhone as an iPod--with no 2 year service guarantee or even, for that matter, a 90-day service plan.

Where does it say they won't provide the standard 12 month warranty for hardware failures?
 
Absurd, anyone?

Is this confirmed??? I don't think it is true I mean for starters you purchase the phone then you activate. For that matter they should restrict selling them before signing up with AT&T. If you sign up and then cancel, you activated, have done nothing illegal, and ended up with an iPod Touch right? If warranty doesn't cover damage it is absurd, I suggest go see someone at another store, their training is not often 100% same because I attempted to return an unlocked (using iunlock) phone with negative black screen issue, and was told my phone was modified and warranty was therefore void. I went to another store and I didn't mention the unlock they saw the Imei numbers on phone and box where the same, I used the regular unactivated AT&T sim, they didn't ask if I had canceled service, didn't verify if I originally had it (Which I didn't) and exchanged the phone. I WAS SO RELIEVED. My point is to never give up people always be persistent and you would have it your way (I worked at Burger King I should know this, lol).
 
In Apple's twisted world, all of this makes sense. After all, if you don't have an ATT contract anymore you can't use your phone anyway so why should there be any support at all for that. This is all related to unlocking and since APple doesn't and won't unlock under any circumstances, when you cancel your contract your phone will be useless.

I do hate Apple for all of this, but what else is there at this point? For those of us who have voided our warranties, let's just hope the iphone is well-built and able to withstand a few years of use! I'm also sure there will be plenty of third party repair services available as time goes by since most of the components are standard.
 
It really doesn't make sense though since Apple is the maker of the iPhone and not AT&T, Apple should stand behind the product if someone decides to cancel their AT&T contract and just use the other features of the iPhone.
 
It really doesn't make sense though since Apple is the maker of the iPhone and not AT&T, Apple should stand behind the product if someone decides to cancel their AT&T contract and just use the other features of the iPhone.


Of course they should. Since this was one case only, I think we need to wait to see if they will clarify their policy. I just looked at the warranty paper that came with my iphone and was unable to find anything in it relating to this question. There is no mention whatsoever of any connection between warranty and an active ATT service - did they add that with the most recent iphones or is that part only on the Apple site?


Regardless, Apple is creating some really bad press right now, not to mention scaring potential customers off from purchasing and alienating old customers. Idiocy!
 
I may be reading this wrong, but nowhere on that original article does is say Apple aren't honoring warranties, just not providing service support (as on this page).

If you buy an iPhone and don't have AT&T service, it looks like Apple will be treating your iPhone as an iPod--with no 2 year service guarantee or even, for that matter, a 90-day service plan.

Where does it say they won't provide the standard 12 month warranty for hardware failures?

It is more than tech support.
"....he was told that Apple would not service his phone. Repairs depend on an active agreement."

That last line is the kicker. Apple has told this guy that since he no longer has an active AT&T account (he cancelled it because of bad signal in his area), they will not REPAIR his defective iPhone, even though it is still under the warranty period.

I can maybe understand not giving him tech support, but Apple should be required to honor a hardware warranty whether or not you purchase some extra phone service from AT&T. Any lawyers here care to clarify? Don't each state's "implied warranty" laws supercede anything Apple states?
 
It is more than tech support.
"....he was told that Apple would not service his phone. Repairs depend on an active agreement."

That last line is the kicker. Apple has told this guy that since he no longer has an active AT&T account (he cancelled it because of bad signal in his area), they will not REPAIR his defective iPhone, even though it is still under the warranty period.

I can maybe understand not giving him tech support, but Apple should be required to honor a hardware warranty whether or not you purchase some extra phone service from AT&T. Any lawyers here care to clarify? Don't each state's "implied warranty" laws supercede anything Apple states?


I think the main issue here is that the warranty statement that is included in the iphone box does not list ATT service as a condition for warranty repairs or any support. That part is only listed on the Apple site, not in the warranty itself.
 
I ate an apple and a pear while I was watching tv.

Was I only watching tv while I was eating the pear?

No, because it modifes both objects not just the one immediately preceeding it.

It took me 5 minutes to do my homework and ten minutes to read the book while I waited for an hour in doctor's office.

Did I only read the book while I waited in the doctor's office?

No, it applies to both of the verb/object pairs in question.

What are the time frames?

2 years for hardware and 1 year for technical support.

What is the modifying factor?

During the time your wireless agreement remains active with AT&T.

Just because you can fit the words into a twisted definition to meet your philosophical needs doesn't make it true.

If you read the Apple warranty for the iPhone, it makes no reference to AT&T or phone service contract anywhere in it. If you bring in a broken phone (from defect, of course) and their stated warranty, none of these "modifiers" apply because it simply isn't in the contract.
 
Most uneducated comment ever.

Ever bought a plane ticket, gone to a sporting event? Read your ticket. You've just agreed to a contract. It's also why every piece of mac hardware comes with a warranty agreement in the box and every piece of software has agreement you have to agree to before you install it.

It doesn't mean that Apple's decisions are right or good for PR, but they can still do it.

Both of the examples you've used are contracts that regularly get trounced on in courts. Just because something is written in a contract doesn't make it legally binding. Crazy at it sounds, and as much as it pains me to type it, it's the truth. A sporting complex can state in their contract that they are not responsible any personal injuries during your stay at their complex, but if a hand rail breaks and you fall down the steps, you can still sue them.

I know this will shock some, but it's the truth. I've seen enough busted contracts in my day to know...
 
It is more than tech support.
"....he was told that Apple would not service his phone. Repairs depend on an active agreement."

That last line is the kicker. Apple has told this guy that since he no longer has an active AT&T account (he cancelled it because of bad signal in his area), they will not REPAIR his defective iPhone, even though it is still under the warranty period.

I can maybe understand not giving him tech support, but Apple should be required to honor a hardware warranty whether or not you purchase some extra phone service from AT&T. Any lawyers here care to clarify? Don't each state's "implied warranty" laws supercede anything Apple states?

Apple's iPhone warranty does cover the hardware for a year though (as has been pointed out on here) - sounds to me like a local misunderstanding rather than an Apple conspiracy: If that's what they were doing then surely they'd have updated their online warranty statement
 
I ate an apple and a pear while I was watching tv.

Was I only watching tv while I was eating the pear?

No, because it modifes both objects not just the one immediately preceeding it.

It took me 5 minutes to do my homework and ten minutes to read the book while I waited for an hour in doctor's office.

Did I only read the book while I waited in the doctor's office?

No, it applies to both of the verb/object pairs in question.

What are the time frames?

2 years for hardware and 1 year for technical support.

What is the modifying factor?

During the time your wireless agreement remains active with AT&T.

Just because you can fit the words into a twisted definition to meet your philosophical needs doesn't make it true.

Never did well at diagramming sentences in English class. However, I will go so far as to say the Apple language:

"iPhone comes with one year of hardware repair service coverage and up to two years of technical support during the time your wireless agreement remains active with AT&T."

Is ambiguous at best; it CAN be read to your interpretation or mine. However, since this quote is from an Apple page that is an overview of the warranty, yours is a straw man argument. The real meaning of the of the warranty is found in the warranty itself (which I provided a link to).

In that document, which is the legal, full terms of the warranty and not jusr a simplistic overview, there is no such ambiguity. Hardware is covered for one year. There are specific exceptions made, mainly if you "hack" the iPhone, or for user errors. The term "A&T" is not present in any way in the legal hardware warranty, either on the link provided, or the documentation accompanying the iPhone.

Thus, whatever your interpretation of the first phrase, it does not matter. According to the warranty itself, there is no exception for phones not activated and currently on an ATT plan.

Thus, if, as you say,

People can't just make up the rules as they go. Contracts mean things. They really do.

I would think this would apply to Apple breaking the terms as well as a consumer. Or, in your world, is Apple not bound to the terms they themselves wrote?

Again, this is assuming the original post is try and Apple is denying service based on a Non-ATT subscribed phone.
 
Again, this is assuming the original post is try and Apple is denying service based on a Non-ATT subscribed phone.

It would seem, based on the inclusion of the ATT service requirement on their site, that Apple is indeed trying to make that a requirement for warranty service. Regardless, it should be clarified since it isn't included in the warranty statement.
 
It would seem, based on the inclusion of the ATT service requirement on their site, that Apple is indeed trying to make that a requirement for warranty service.

That is an ambitious interpretation at best. Again, the "overview" quote is immaterial to what the actual terms are- it is only there as a quick summation of the full warranty terms. Of the two interpetations of this overview, only one is supported by the actual warranty, and that is that there are two complete and distinct phrases used. One phrase regarding a one year hardware warranty, and the second being up to two years phone support based on ATT subscription.

Regardless, it should be clarified since it isn't included in the warranty statement.

I do not think this is something open to clarification. This is too major a point. It would have to be in the agreement.... or it is not. No clarification needed: it is not there, so it is not a requirement for warranty service. Apple cannot go back and impose new (and to my mind, more draconian) requirements AFTER the sale. Well, they can try, but they will quickly see a lot more lawsuits.
 
That is an ambitious interpretation at best. Again, the "overview" quote is immaterial to what the actual terms are- it is only there as a quick summation of the full warranty terms. Of the two interpetations of this overview, only one is supported by the actual warranty, and that is that there are two complete and distinct phrases used. One phrase regarding a one year hardware warranty, and the second being up to two years phone support based on ATT subscription.



I do not think this is something open to clarification. This is too major a point. It would have to be in the agreement.... or it is not. No clarification needed: it is not there, so it is not a requirement for warranty service. Apple cannot go back and impose new (and to my mind, more draconian) requirements AFTER the sale. Well, they can try, but they will quickly see a lot more lawsuits.

I totally agree with you and was just pointing out what seems to be going on. The reason this needs to 'clarified' is that if Apple makes a statement that ATT service is required, then the customer can dispute that more formally. As it is now, there is only one report of this, although the report was updated with more negative information that indicates that Apple is refusing warranty on iphones that are not connected to a ATT contract:

http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/10/16/non.att.iphone.service/

Once again, it will be interesting to see how this unfolds....Apple has a talent for riding things out. I hope Apple gets in trouble for this so that it learns a lesson for the future.
 
I am pretty suspicious of the original report, myself. I really think it is either made up, important facts are missing, or a low-level employee is acting out of turn. I really doubt this is really Apple policy- Apple is just not that stupid. I am sometimes pretty critical of Apple, but I really do think they are being mis-represented in the OP, in some manner.
 
I am pretty suspicious of the original report, myself. I really think it is either made up, important facts are missing, or a low-level employee is acting out of turn. I really doubt this is really Apple policy- Apple is just not that stupid. I am sometimes pretty critical of Apple, but I really do think they are being mis-represented in the OP, in some manner.

I hope you're right. It's possible that there are circumstances that haven't been disclosed, but it's also possible that Apple is trying to push people more aggressively to not unlock and stay with ATT.
 
Regardless of the overwhelming circumstances, apologist fanboys will always defend Apple's decision.

If the customer has not violated any terms of agreement then he is entitled to get his phone fixed. He signed up for service and subsequently cancelled his service. AT&T says he is entitled to do so. IF this phone were unlocked I dont see anything wrong with them declining support

If Apple doesnt deems such behavior as unaccpetable, then the Iphone should not be sold with the same rights provided by AT&T to all of its customers. Until then, they have to warranty the phone just like any other manufacturer is obligated to.

I doubt Apple legal would be foolish enough to send this directive out to its stores. Perhaps this was just an overzealous "Genius" flexing his muscles. If this is indeed Apple's policy I hope they are sued out the wazooo
 
Both of the examples you've used are contracts that regularly get trounced on in courts. Just because something is written in a contract doesn't make it legally binding. Crazy at it sounds, and as much as it pains me to type it, it's the truth. A sporting complex can state in their contract that they are not responsible any personal injuries during your stay at their complex, but if a hand rail breaks and you fall down the steps, you can still sue them.

I know this will shock some, but it's the truth. I've seen enough busted contracts in my day to know...

I think you're conflating the issue by confusing what it means for a contract to be legally binding... Allow me to explain...

Using the sporting complex example...

1. The contract you enter into is enforceable and binding provided that both parties knowingly entered into the contract... Whether you read the contract or not, "knowingly" means that they knowingly provided you a service for which you knowingly paid them consideration (e.g. money), both equal to the service and consideration agreed to in writing.

2. Contracts that are unenforceable by design are pretty limited. These include gambling bets and contracts interrupting or interfering with the binding marriage of one person to another, and/or contracts in which the service required is blatantly illegal... Agreeing to waive certain rights is not necessarily illegal unless it is stipulated expressly in statutory law that it is. A contract is not implicitly illegal simply because it involves rights being waived. This includes waivers of liability, and waivers of rights enumerated in the Constitution UNLESS the other party to the contract is a governmental body because Constitutional rights enjoin only Congress, the government, and agencies/departments of the government.

The mistake you're making is confusing the enforceability of a binding contract in principle with the initiation and outcome of litigation aimed at interpreting enforceability as well as the relevant sections of law.

Back to the sporting complex... If you agree to waive liability rights upon entry to a sporting complex, there's nothing illegal about it. Whether or not you can sue them has nothing to do with whether a waiver of rights is criminal or not. Disputes between two parties are torts.... this case is tort law, not criminal law. The fact that you can file suit to dispute the interpretation and enforceability of waiver doesn't guarantee that you will win, nor does it guarantee that the court will not bind you to other provisions of the contract that are themselves wholly enforceable.

The enforceability of a waiver clause also depends on where the negligence lay...

I'll give you two examples with separate potential outcomes:

1. Guy is leaning over a railing and falls and breaks his wrist. This guy will most likely be unsuccessful in bringing suit against the complex because he waived his rights and the accident was due ostensibly to his own negligence... Even worse if warning signs advise patrons to not lean on the railings (which they usually do). This example is the reason why sports complexes include such a clause.

2. Guy is walking up stairs that are icy, have not been cleaned by the complex proprietors, and have no warning signs indicating ice on the stairs. The guy falls and breaks his leg. This guy COULD win because despite the liability waiver, the negligence here is the stadium's. They failed to properly maintain the stairs, to properly block off or to warn the patrons of the risk.

3. Guy is pushed down the stairs by a staff member forcibly and breaks his leg. Guy wasn't doing anything wrong and the staff member was being a jerk. Not only could he sue the stadium but also the individual who pushed him. He could sue the stadium for negligence and the individual for assault and battery, and there could be criminal charges brought against the individual for assault and battery. The waiver of liability may not apply here because there was negligence by stadium staff AND a criminal act involved.

Note that in all three of these examples there may be no statutory law that sets in stone what the outcome will be. In these scenarios it's up to a judge and/or jury to determine the outcome based on their interpretation of a combination of statutory law as well as case law (precedent decisions), and the underlying protections implied by both.

Since tort lawsuits can end up costing a lot of money, as lawyers don't work for free, it is always best to try to resolve such disputes directly. The guy ultimately wants his iPhone serviced... but the store is potentially misinterpreting the contract. This may just be an honest mistake by the store. Stores get things wrong sometimes... they're not manned by legal experts making $300 an hour. But a quick discussion with the right people could lead to a happy outcome for all. If the guy knows he is well within his rights to get service, he should explain his reasons for believing so to someone who is in a position to authorize that the service be done.

If after escalation it goes nowhere, one has to weigh how much the issue is costing them against how much fighting the issue will cost them. Ultimately, in a class action lawsuit the lawyers on both sides are the ones who make the bulk of the cash and the little guy may make out with nothing... even possibly be in a bigger hole.
 
Don't waste your breath, if the hackers in denial could understand your post they could easily understand that there position is ridiculous.
 
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