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It's not about loving apple or hating apple. It's about what may be fair compensation to those who believe they are aggrieved. Compensation could be $0 or it could be more than $0. Either way, if this isn't dismissed and goes to trial, we will all have to wait for the outcome.

Either way we are entitled to our opinions and shall see how the case ultimately turns out.

When someone makes a claim that is both normative and absolute--that such a case should be dismissed as frivolous--then yeah, it's totally about loving Apple. That is a premature conclusion that does not inherently follow from the facts. It's not unreasonable for me to thus conclude that his statement is an artifact of bias.
 
When someone makes a claim that is both normative and absolute--that such a case should be dismissed as frivolous--then yeah, it's totally about loving Apple. That is a premature conclusion that does not inherently follow from the facts. It's not unreasonable for me to thus conclude that his statement is an artifact of bias.
Disagree. An opinion of that nature is the same type of opinion that Apple "should pay (through the nose)." The latter is same type of bias as the former, according to the above quote. So it seems, in essence, that your position is any type of opinion is biased. The latter is totally hating Apple and doesn't follow from the facts either.

Since the outcome at this time is not predictable, all opinions should be able to be discussed without having the label of bias thrown around.
 
Come back to us in a around abouts a couple of months after you've had several phone shutdowns after firing up something like Apple Maps or Waze...

Nice try, Apple. Did you miss the part where both Apple and the phone said that the battery is fine and no replacement is needed?? I even clarified with them asking straight up whether my phone was being throttled and the reply was that is wasn’t. Wrong!

Get a clue and stop defending them. Sheesh. Do you want to know the real rip? Apple replaced the battery not even a year prior under the 6S battery replacement program. The other rub? The Phone has never shut down since 11.3 and I’m an extreme user.
 
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So, one of two things was going to happen to these old devices: 'Random Reboots' or 'Slowdowns'.

Now each litigant is going to have to prove that, given that an Apple battery at the time was priced at $99, how many of them, when faced with one of those two outcomes, would have ONLY brought a new phone if the 'slowdown' was a factor.

This is why this is a veritable minefield for the litigants - they have a huge hurdle to overcome - show that they purchased a new phone ONLY because the device was throttled, but they would NOT have done so had it been rebooting at 40% battery.

Firstly, you’re perpetuating the misconception that that the hardware itself is old and somehow compromised by describing it as such. The phone itself would likely function like new if not for the spent battery (Mine does after its battery replacement). It’s the battery that is old by battery standards.

I don’t believe the plaintiffs have to answer your hypothetical. Either reason to upgrade—slow performance or sudden shut downs—could be remedied with a new battery, something that Apple was hesitant to recommend. Instead, Apple concealed the issue—perhaps even an engineering issue. The result is the same, the customer was led to believe that a new phone was the best option.

Regardless what we imagine the challenges will be for the plaintiffs to prove their case, one thing is obvious... 60+ law firms and government offices believe they have enough reasons to pursue this.
 
Disagree. An opinion of that nature is the same type of opinion that Apple "should pay (through the nose)." The latter is same type of bias as the former, according to the above quote. So it seems, in essence, that your position is any type of opinion is biased. The latter is totally hating Apple and doesn't follow from the facts either.

Since the outcome at this time is not predictable, all opinions should be able to be discussed without having the label of bias thrown around.

False dichotomy and thus a false conclusion. The facts suggest that there is a strong enough legal case to be made that it isn't going away any time soon. Period. Full stop.

Furthermore, you continue to conflate two very different things: me talking about people's normative claims, which are very likely to be the product of bias (unbiased people recognize the complexity of the issue and therefore don't make silly normative claims), and the case outcome. What should the predictability of the outcome have to do with making normative claims acceptable? Nada.
 
OK, OK, we're old-fashioned and cheap, but my wife and were holding onto our 5S phones until we were feeling ready (as in waiting for a nice sale...) for iPhone 8. Then we made the mistake of installing iOS 11. Dramatically slowed performance, even when plugged in to charger, so it has nothing to do with the battery, unless I'm missing some information. So I realize that the new iOS has more processing it's doing, but....omigod!
The logical answer is just to buy a couple of model 8, or whatever. But I hate to reward Apple for this behavior. Or maybe I should....it's not like my APPL stock hasn't been good to us.....

that is exactly how i feel. as a shareholder i am pissed - intentionally crippling old devices is a bad way to do business.

at any rate i solved my problem by buying a used iphone7 on swappa. it turned out that it was practically brand new (9 months of warranty left) and only cost $450. so i avoided directly rewarding apple for this behavior and got a phone that as of yet, apple has not throttled.
 
that is exactly how i feel. as a shareholder i am pissed - intentionally crippling old devices is a bad way to do business.

at any rate i solved my problem by buying a used iphone7 on swappa. it turned out that it was practically brand new (9 months of warranty left) and only cost $450. so i avoided directly rewarding apple for this behavior and got a phone that as of yet, apple has not throttled.

Throttling was introduced to iPhone 7 with iOS 11.2. Are you running an older iOS version? Btw, make sure you get a copy of the iPhone 7 receipt otherwise you could potentially be affected by Apple's other schemes like random iCloud lock that they will only unlock with copy of receipt.
 

what really needs to happen here is the state of California needs to sue apple. i've been party to probably 5 or 6 computer class action suits in my life and you are absolutely right that most people get $20 or something out of these things.

however, kamala harris went after these LCD manufacturers for price collusion and in the end i got a check for something like $650. that's what happens when you cut out the middleman!
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Throttling was introduced to iPhone 7 with iOS 11.2. Are you running an older iOS version?

sorry - misspoke; you are right.

the throttling in iphone7 is *very* mild compared to what they did to the iphone6 though. since my iphone7 is new, there's no throttling whatsoever. my wife's iphone7 is just over a year old and it's very, very slightly throttled.

in contrast, my iphone6 with a year-old battery was throttled all the way down to 600Mhz when the SOC was < 80%. meanwhile, my kids have iphone6 running 10.x with 2+ year old batteries and they are throttled to ~1200mhz or so. this is why i firmly believe that apple are lying thru their teeth here. whatever gentle throttling that is in 10.x on iphone6 is working fine for my kids' phones (no shutdowns), but my iphone6 with a newer battery was essentially unusable @ 600Mhz.
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Btw, make sure you get a copy of the iPhone 7 receipt otherwise you could potentially be affected by Apple's other schemes like random iCloud lock that they will only unlock with copy of receipt.

forgot to reply to this... it was bought from one of these cellphone refurbisher stores doing business on swappa, so i have the swappa sale documentation but that's it. i doubt the store has the original proof of purchase from apple as some private person must have sold it to them.
 
I don’t believe the plaintiffs have to answer your hypothetical. Either reason to upgrade—slow performance or sudden shut downs—could be remedied with a new battery, something that Apple was hesitant to recommend. Instead, Apple concealed the issue—perhaps even an engineering issue. The result is the same, the customer was led to believe that a new phone was the best option.

You so sure about this?

Let's have a look at just a smattering of the lawsuits, taking their Pleliminary Statement's, Nature of Action's, Summaries etc. (the basic synopsis of the case):

Taylor vs. Apple (Alabama)

1. This case is about Apple’s scheme to slow down, or “throttle,” the performance of certain iPhone models, including the iPhone 6, 6 Plus, 6s Plus, SE, 7, and 7 Plus models (“Legacy iPhones”).

(No mention of being forced to buy/denied the right to buy, a battery)

Liebermann et al. v. Apple (California)

4. Specifically, unbeknownst to Device users, updated versions of Apple’s iOS operating system were designed to deliberately slow the processor (“CPU”) speed of the Devices as their lithium-ion battery ages. This practice misleads users to believe that their Device is slow and operates poorly due to reduced processing performance and that the Device needs to be replaced, when, in reality, there may simply be a deficiency in battery power. As a result, Plaintiffs and many other Device owners have prematurely upgraded their Devices rather than taking the far less expensive step of replacing the phone’s lithium-ion battery.

(Notice here there again there is no position about obtaining a battery)

Schroeder v. Apple (Indiana)

1. This is a class action seeking injunctive relief and damages arising from Defendant Apple Inc.’s unlawful failure to inform consumers that updating their iPhone versions prior to the iPhone 8 (the “Legacy Devices”) to iOS 10.2.1 (and/or later to iOS 11.2) would dramatically and artificially reduce the performance of the Legacy Devices. Apple also failed to inform consumers that phone performance would be restored—by as much as 70 percent—if affected individuals simply replaced the phone’s lithium-ion battery. Replacing the battery at an Apple store costs approximately $79. The cost of the new iPhone X is over $1,000.​

2. Batteries “wear” over time. The lithium-ion battery used by Apple slowly diminishes its ability to hold a charge with time and use. However, normal lithium-ion battery wear does not reduce performance; a weakening battery has no effect on performance unless there is software that links the two. And that is precisely what Apple did.

(This case will fail on it's face given this statement - it is factually and technically incorrect - can't argue with physics and it's impedance that's at play and that affects ALL Li-Ion cellphone batteries from EVERY SINGLE company)
Sullivan-Stefanou et al. v. Apple (Ohio)

2. Plaintiffs allege that Defendant Apple Inc. (“Apple” or “Defendant”) engaged in deceptive trade practices and false advertising in violation of Ohio Deceptive Trade Practices Act, §4165.01 et seq.; and engaged in common law fraud by failing to disclose to owners of the iPhones 6 and 7 that the iOS 10 and iOS 11 Updates significantly and negatively interfere with their phones’ performance. Rather, Apple touted the increased phone performance that would result from the Updates.

3. Apple has since admitted that through the iOS 10 and iOS 11 Updates, Apple deliberately prevents chips in the iPhone 6 and iPhone 7 from reaching their full processing power. The result is that instead of enhancing the performance of the iPhone 6 and iPhone 7 as Apple represented, the iOS 10 and iOS 11 Updates were designed to limit the devices’ performance in certain circumstances.

4. Having updated their phones at Apple’s instruction, Plaintiffs and the putative Class must either continue using devices with significant lag time that interferes with their ordinary use, or purchase new phones for hundreds of dollars, or now they can purchase a new battery.

(Now, here's one that's going to have to provide "Apple's Instruction" if the litigants should prevail. Notice again how there's no statement that they were unable to purchase a battery either.

That's just four random one's I picked up on.

And, now here's the kicker, there's a big difference between the hardware (the battery) and the software (the operating system). All this started with updates to iOS 10 which every single person affected agreed to install and 100% agreed to ALL the terms inside the EULA. Oh, but wait, I hear you ask, who reads the EULA these days? Doesn't matter - numerous cases have already upheld the EULA as enforceable IF the users has performed an action that states they have 'read' the EULA before proceeding.

But wait - there is a light at the end of a tunnel...

..in states such as California. Unsure of other states, but CA has an interesting nugget in it's lawbooks that might be of value: the concept of 'I had no choice'.

This concept was tested in Bragg v Linden Research, Inc (2007) where the courts upheld that the plaintiff had no choice (in this case) due to Second-Life's (then) position as 'the only game in town'. It may be possible to apply that to the OS updates - or it may not be.

He won.

I present it here to demonstrate that I'm trying to find angles in which the case might succeed, based upon the eventual jurisdiction.


That said, Apple can quite easily point to other manufacturers dealing with the same issue where and saying 'we're not the only ones' (which is true) and that they have the right to handle the battery the best way forward. Granted, that's a big of a bombastic statement, but we allow them to dictate EVERYTHING else we know and 'love' in Apple (more-so with the 'Walled Garden',) so why not this.










 
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Now the question is: Will an average (even non-US based) consumer get any compensation?
 
False dichotomy and thus a false conclusion. The facts suggest that there is a strong enough legal case to be made that it isn't going away any time soon. Period. Full stop.

Furthermore, you continue to conflate two very different things: me talking about people's normative claims, which are very likely to be the product of bias (unbiased people recognize the complexity of the issue and therefore don't make silly normative claims), and the case outcome. What should the predictability of the outcome have to do with making normative claims acceptable? Nada.
You’re confusing making an argument in which there is a premise, supporting facts and conclusions with a (very biased opinion masquerading as some truth of the situation), yours.

The facts suggest nothing about the likely legal outcome of the case, making any such claim, ie not going away any time soon, is pure puffery.

People who believe or say they are unbiased, are only unbiased in their mind.

However a recent example of presenting both sides is a post above this.
 
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I think Apple will be fined big time and will have to make restitution to millions of users.

The "fix" was made to avoid having to recall millions of iPhones that were defective.

A phone that crashes because the battery is aging is a defect in design and/or manufacturing.

That was mistake number 1.

Then they tried to cover up the defect by slipping some software that prevented it by reducing performance.

That was mistake 2.

Then they didn't tell anyone about mistake 1 or 2.

That was mistake 3.

No way they are coming out of this unscathed.

Mistake number 1 wasn’t a mistake. It happens due to battery tech. Try using an android phone. It’s terrible after a year. What they did was extend the life of the phone, but not telling anyone a simple battery swap would return your phone to new was a mistake. For that they should owe money.
 
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You’re confusing making an argument in which there is a premise, supporting facts and conclusions with a (very biased opinion masquerading as some truth of the situation), yours.

The facts suggest nothing about the likely legal outcome of the case, making any such claim, ie not going away any time soon, is pure puffery.

People who believe they are unbiased, are only unbiased in their mind.
Only to those who are uneducated in legal affairs do the facts support "nothing" about the outcome. Your attempt to draw a false dichotomy is not the same thing.

I'd humbly suggest if you want to learn something today, make friends with a competent attorney. But I doubt you will. People don't like having their world views tinkered with.

I have very little bias on this issue. It helps having no personal experience with the problem, so I've had nothing to create any feelings on it one way or another. I also specialize in behavioral economics for a living, so I'm pretty good at recognizing bias when it exists, even in myself.

You have demonstrated in several of your posts that you have an axe to grind. And that axe seems to blind you to what people are actually saying as well as an objective evaluation of the facts. It's too bad.
 
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I understand that but batteries are not meant to last forever. Every battery have a lifespan, there’s no battery in the world that simply works perfectly forever and ever and that’s why people are suing. They think the device they’ve been using and abusing for 2+ years should work the same since the day they purchased it without any type of maintenance.
Not at all. Battery degrade.
But Apple should have offered battery replacement they know what the issue was. Most people would have no problem paying for a new battery if they were just told that. Instead Apple told them the battery’s were fine. I know from personal experience with a 6s.
 
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that is exactly how i feel. as a shareholder i am pissed - intentionally crippling old devices is a bad way to do business.

at any rate i solved my problem by buying a used iphone7 on swappa. it turned out that it was practically brand new (9 months of warranty left) and only cost $450. so i avoided directly rewarding apple for this behavior and got a phone that as of yet, apple has not throttled.
If it’s running 11.2 iOS then it’s already throttled.
Hopes yours not updated to 11.2
 
Only to those who are uneducated in legal affairs do the facts support "nothing" about the outcome. Your attempt to draw a false dichotomy is not the same thing.

I'd humbly suggest if you want to learn something today, make friends with a competent attorney. But I doubt you will. People don't like having their world views tinkered with.

I have very little bias on this issue. It helps having no personal experience with the problem, so I've had nothing to create any feelings on it one way or another. I also specialize in behavioral economics for a living, so I'm pretty good at recognizing bias when it exists, even in myself.

You have demonstrated in several of your posts that you have an axe to grind. And that axe seems to blind you to what people are actually saying as well as an objective evaluation of the facts. It's too bad.
To make your point valid you do need to throw in some ad-Homs, I humbly suggest you review the rules for appropriate debate. It’s always better to discuss the topic and not the poster.

This post is more deflecting on the original and subsequent posts. I have little bias on the issue as you say you do and what happens happens, but I predicted no outcome. People are blindsided by their own biases and almost impossible to recognize it in oneself.

Therefore I humbly submit you have no clue as to the direction this legal affair will take, but admitting it will be tough.

As far as the “axe to grind”, this is an anonymous internet community. Posting a comment makes an implicit assumption that there could be “discussion” about your post.
 
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This is not what the future of battery/smartphones should be like, so trying to justify it is wrong. In fact there is better battery technology available that degrades far less than what Apple is currently using.
I clicked on the link genuinely hoping to find advances in battery technology, instead found a hearsay mention, supposedly by a Samsung representative (clueless?) without any mention of the advancement other than a a number thrown around - 95%, no backup information to provide any credibility. There is no correlation to the article's title and the conclusion. How gullible can we be?
One word - Clickbait, to describe the link.
 
To make your point valid you do need to throw in some ad-Homs, I humbly suggest you review the rules for appropriate debate. It’s always better to discuss the topic and not the poster.

This post is more deflecting on the original and subsequent posts. I have little bias on the issue as you say you do and what happens happens, but I predicted no outcome. People are blindsided by their own biases and almost impossible to recognize it in oneself.

Therefore I humbly submit you have no clue as to the direction this legal affair will take, but admitting it will be tough.

As far as the “axe to grind”, this is an anonymous internet community. Posting a comment makes an implicit assumption that there could be “discussion” about your post.

It's like you don't read anything I say. I don't know if you've confused me with another poster, or assumed that because I commented on the other guy's comment that the case "should" be "dismissed as frivolous" that I take the opposite view.

Let me repeat it for you since it seems to not be getting through: all I've said is two things:
1) At this point, there's not nearly enough public information to make a claim that is both absolute and normative (i.e., a "should") claim about the case.
2) At this point, it's highly unlikely that the case will be summarily dismissed. There's significant legal research on when and under what conditions cases are likely to be dismissed (overall about a third of the time) or reach settlement (also a third overall) or be abandoned by the plaintiffs (about the other third). When you take into account the size the potential class, the nature of the defendant, and the scope of the aggrieved harms, basic Bayesian inference tells you which is most likely.

The irony about you accusing me of deflection is that while you started this discussion by responding to me, every single time you've failed to address the substance of what I have said.

Sidenote on ad homs: they constitute a true logical fallacy if—and only if—used to imply that a person's motive makes their argument necessarily invalid. The act of noting a person's bias by itself is not inappropriate, and is very different from ad homs that, for example, are name-calling.
 
I clicked on the link genuinely hoping to find advances in battery technology, instead found a hearsay mention, supposedly by a Samsung representative (clueless?) without any mention of the advancement other than a a number thrown around - 95%, no backup information to provide any credibility. There is no correlation to the article's title and the conclusion. How gullible can we be?
One word - Clickbait, to describe the link.

The news was reported by several news outlets and has not been refuted by Samsung, you are welcomed to research and bring me evidence otherwise.

I think we should all be worried why Apple isn't leading the world with batteries that only degrade to 95% after 2 years of use. Instead, Apple promises to bring throttling to future iPhones 'as needed'. That's BS, that's not the future of smartphones.
 
It's like you don't read anything I say. I don't know if you've confused me with another poster, or assumed that because I commented on the other guy's comment that the case "should" be "dismissed as frivolous" that I take the opposite view.

Let me repeat it for you since it seems to not be getting through: all I've said is two things:
1) At this point, there's not nearly enough public information to make a claim that is both absolute and normative (i.e., a "should") claim about the case.
2) At this point, it's highly unlikely that the case will be summarily dismissed. There's significant legal research on when and under what conditions cases are likely to be dismissed (overall about a third of the time) or reach settlement (also a third overall) or be abandoned by the plaintiffs (about the other third). When you take into account the size the potential class, the nature of the defendant, and the scope of the aggrieved harms, basic Bayesian inference tells you which is most likely.

The irony about you accusing me of deflection is that while you started this discussion by responding to me, every single time you've failed to address the substance of what I have said.

Sidenote on ad homs: they constitute a true logical fallacy if—and only if—used to imply that a person's motive makes their argument necessarily invalid. The act of noting a person's bias by itself is not inappropriate, and is very different from ad homs that, for example, are name-calling.
This entire post, except for the part where you actually had an opinion regarding the topic at hand, is a deflection.

There is enough public knowledge about the case to have an OPINION on the matter or comment on the matter. Nobody knows where this case will go. OJ was guilty. remember that case? So just admit the future can’t be predicted as a fact, but one can have an opinion as to where and how this will play out.

Side note on side note on ad-Homs: saying someone doesn’t have reading comprehension, or lacks knowledge etc, to me Invalidates a point of view if one feels they need to raise themselves by lowering someone else. Just can’t take posts like that seriously.(and in fact may be against the rules for appropriate debate)
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The news was reported by several news outlets and has not been refuted by Samsung, you are welcomed to research and bring me evidence otherwise.

I think we should all be worried why Apple isn't leading the world with batteries that only degrade to 95% after 2 years of use. Instead, Apple promises to bring throttling to future iPhones 'as needed'. That's BS, that's not the future of smartphones.
That 95% statistic seems meaningless. If I don’t use my phone I’m sure degradation will be 95% after two years. If Samsung is saying that with unlimited use and discharge cycles it will degrade to 95% in two years, that is an entirely different thing.
 
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That 95% statistic seems meaningless. If I don’t use my phone I’m sure degradation will be 95% after two years. If Samsung is saying that with unlimited use and discharge cycles it will degrade to 95% in two years, that is an entirely different thing.

"Specifically, Samsung says that after two years' worth of charges and discharges, the Galaxy S7 only maintained about 80% of its total effective battery capacity. The Galaxy S8 and S8+, however, will maintain 95% of their capacity over that same period with the same usage."

https://www.androidpolice.com/2017/...ill-degrade-less-quickly-than-the-galaxy-s7s/

That's the context of that figure. Whether it's true or not we'll see, but at least they are trying. Apple on the other hand promises more throttling and more 'tools' to manage the beautiful throttling.
 
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This entire post, except for the part where you actually had an opinion regarding the topic at hand, is a deflection.

There is enough public knowledge about the case to have an OPINION on the matter or comment on the matter. Nobody knows where this case will go. OJ was guilty. remember that case? So just admit the future can’t be predicted as a fact, but one can have an opinion as to where and how this will play out.

Side note on side note on ad-Homs: saying someone doesn’t have reading comprehension, or lacks knowledge etc, to me Invalidates a point of view if one feels they need to raise themselves by lowering someone else. Just can’t take posts like that seriously.(and in fact may be against the rules for appropriate debate)

You're not addressing a thing I've said. Not. One. Thing.

I'll stop wasting my time.
 
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