Apple Now Selling Square's New NFC Reader for Apple Pay and Contactless Payments

[tmiw]

There were over 1500 data breaches recorded in 2014. About 24% of those breaches occurred in the retail or financial services sectors. That means that every time you put your credit card out there you are at risk of it getting stolen, either on the spot or when someone you trusted with the information doesn't adequately protect it.

Honestly, most Americans don't care all that much about payment security. Why should they when they're basically never liable for any fraud? Apple Pay's big draw is convenience, not security or privacy; in fact, the latter is actually a disadvantage since most major retailers will balk as long as they won't be able to get customer data from it.

(Despite what some think, loyalty card support in Apple Pay is not good enough for them. For one thing, most won't opt-in because they don't want to bother filling out a form. And some people who do use it will use fake info, enter a random phone number at checkout or even just claim they "forgot" their card and have the clerk scan the "emergency" loyalty card that's next to each register.)

 

[BuddyTronic]

So how does this connect to your phone to accept payment, bluetooth?

NFC
[doublepost=1454525359][/doublepost]

I'm sure Apple will be getting 10% of the 49.00 so every time we wish to sell something Apple gets it's cut. The greed just grows and grows.

No, that's not true.....But you are sure?

 

[ZebraDude]

I've no doubt numerous breaches occur. There seems to be a high profile breach at least 3-4 times a year. My query was specific to rdlink's quote about being tired of having his credit card numbers stolen; the implication being it has happened multiple times. If that is the case, ouch. That's some seriously bad luck. Info about a random breach really doesn't answer the question that was asked.

I have had my old Debit Card Breached three times that I know about. So far the Bank has eaten the funds but I like to be proactive if I can and Apple/Android Pay is the way to go if security is important!

 

[BuddyTronic]

Honestly, most Americans don't care all that much about payment security. Why should they when they're basically never liable for any fraud? Apple Pay's big draw is convenience, not security or privacy; in fact, the latter is actually a disadvantage since most major retailers will balk as long as they won't be able to get customer data from it.

(Despite what some think, loyalty card support in Apple Pay is not good enough for them. For one thing, most won't opt-in because they don't want to bother filling out a form. And some people who do use it will use fake info, enter a random phone number at checkout or even just claim they "forgot" their card and have the clerk scan the "emergency" loyalty card that's next to each register.)

It is about privacy and security in part. Apple pay is VERY nice for that - a great improvement.

Of course it is convenient and that is the main advantage. Imagine the coke machines and subway token machines and so forth that can benefit from Apple Pay.

But yes, the credit card issuing banks have big insurance policies to cover fraud. They do make so much money off the backs of the merchants (merchant credit card fees) and of course all the Americans (most of them) who have no money but tons of credit card debt helps the banks a lot (interest on unpaid balances). So the banks have this monopoly on credit cards, make a killing, and don't really care about security. That's why you have the "3 digit" code (CCV) on the back of your card for "security" - a very lame attempt at security, but if it slows the fraud down a bit, why not implement it?

Anyway, I forget why I am replying.

 

[Peel]

Since this was launched a few months ago, I now notice that more small-businesses that I frequent (mainly food trucks and restaurants) accept Apple Pay than do large chains. This hopefully starts a bottom-up revolution that finally forces the big boys to play along as well.

 

[nutmac]

I'm sure Apple will be getting 10% of the 49.00 so every time we wish to sell something Apple gets it's cut. The greed just grows and grows.

Apple is getting something from Apple Pay transaction, but at far lower percentage. It's 0.15% in the US ($0.07 out of your $49) and lower in some other parts of the world where interchangeable fee is capped.

 

[ptb42]

I've no doubt numerous breaches occur. There seems to be a high profile breach at least 3-4 times a year. My query was specific to rdlink's quote about being tired of having his credit card numbers stolen; the implication being it has happened multiple times. If that is the case, ouch. That's some seriously bad luck. Info about a random breach really doesn't answer the question that was asked.

It's happened to me twice: both were traced back to cases where I handed my card to someone and they had the opportunity to copy the information and use it for mail order purchases.

As someone else has noted -- with chip and signature, the US is still perpetuating a system where the credit card may be out of the cardholder's control for a brief period. While the chip makes card cloning much harder, it still doesn't prevent the info printed on the card from being used for mail order.

Apple Pay doesn't allow the device to be used by anyone but the card holder, and the information can't be reused even if someone does manage to capture it somewhere in the chain of authorization and transaction processing. But, it requires the retailer to use point-of-sale terminals that are directly accessible by the cardholder.

 

[BuddyTronic]

Your card number can be stolen almost anywhere. Give your card to a waitperson. It can be stolen between the table and whatever hidden place they go to run the charge. Give your card to a website. It can be stolen from their systems. Slide your card in a store reader. A skimmer might be on it.

I'm not saying that I drive around town all day looking for stores that accept Apple Pay. But when a store installs new readers that have NFC capability but doesn't enable it, or if they purposely turn it off to keep people from using contactless I make it known that they're losing my business until they fix it. Also, if there are two merchants who offer a similar shopping experience and one takes Apple Pay, but the other one doesn't I will patronize the one that does, and make sure the one that I don't use knows why.

Case in point, I will drive across the street to use Sprouts instead of King Soopers in those instances where they both have what I need.

Apple Pay will really be nice for preventing card number stealing, but also Apple Pay can protect your privacy a little bit in other ways. It is nobody's business but my own if I happen to purchase "depends" adult diapers or embarrassing items from a store or a bar or whatever. Why should the waiter or the clerk know my name without me telling them my name? Right now they get to see that information whenever you use your credit card and it's really not fair. If you are in a small town and buy "depends" adult diapers, you might not want the entire town to know such information.

Apple Pay solves that scenario.

 

[ptb42]

Since this was launched a few months ago, I now notice that more small-businesses that I frequent (mainly food trucks and restaurants) accept Apple Pay than do large chains. This hopefully starts a bottom-up revolution that finally forces the big boys to play along as well.

The small businesses don't have a huge investment in integrated point-of-sale systems. They can use a handheld-terminal in which they simply enter the amount.

 

[tmiw]

It is about privacy and security in part. Apple pay is VERY nice for that - a great improvement.

Of course it is convenient and that is the main advantage. Imagine the coke machines and subway token machines and so forth that can benefit from Apple Pay.

But yes, the credit card issuing banks have big insurance policies to cover fraud. They do make so much money off the backs of the merchants (merchant credit card fees) and of course all the Americans (most of them) who have no money but tons of credit card debt helps the banks a lot (interest on unpaid balances). So the banks have this monopoly on credit cards, make a killing, and don't really care about security. That's why you have the "3 digit" code (CCV) on the back of your card for "security" - a very lame attempt at security, but if it slows the fraud down a bit, why not implement it?

Anyway, I forget why I am replying.

Federal law actually caps our losses at $50 (and in practice, banks don't even bother collecting that due to the level of competition that exists). Debit cards are a bit more of a hassle since it is your own money that's taken out, but even that's reimbursed eventually.

 

[BuddyTronic]

The small businesses don't have a huge investment in integrated point-of-sale systems. They can use a handheld-terminal in which they simply enter the amount.

Yes. Perhaps there will be an app for that. Why do we even need "Square". I haven't swiped a mag strip on my card for several years now. Worst case has been to slide in your Visa chip card. I guess I answered my own question. But yeah, if NFC and Apple Pay can work with an iPhone app, there is your use case for person to person micro transactions.

As for Point of Sale systems, I never had to pay for terminals - the bank always supplied them free. That's why they are mostly crap.

 

[69Mustang]

Your card number can be stolen almost anywhere. Give your card to a waitperson. It can be stolen between the table and whatever hidden place they go to run the charge. Give your card to a website. It can be stolen from their systems. Slide your card in a store reader. A skimmer might be on it.

I'm not saying that I drive around town all day looking for stores that accept Apple Pay. But when a store installs new readers that have NFC capability but doesn't enable it, or if they purposely turn it off to keep people from using contactless I make it known that they're losing my business until they fix it. Also, if there are two merchants who offer a similar shopping experience and one takes Apple Pay, but the other one doesn't I will patronize the one that does, and make sure the one that I don't use knows why.

Case in point, I will drive across the street to use Sprouts instead of King Soopers in those instances where they both have what I need.

You're right. Credit card info can be stolen anywhere. But that wasn't the question I asked. I was asking about your situation specifically with you saying you're tired of having your info stolen. I definitely want to avoid those places. Condolences on your luck. I imagine that's gotta suck, especially multiple times.

I still don't get the whole mobile payment thing. Like most, I've never had my cc info stolen so I may be a bit more cavalier about it. Just from a convenience factor, mobile payment is no more or less easy than whipping out my card. Plus it's accepted everywhere.

 

[mrob44]

I've been using square since their first mag stripe reader. It's always worked well, especially when friends owe you money and say they don't have any cash on them, haha.

Here's a video of setup and a demo transaction with the new reader:

 

[jetjaguar]

Don't see it on apples site. I got one from square but won't ship until march

 

[AppleNewton]

$49 is just too expensive. I get there is more tech in this by far than the free strip reader they gave out, but cmon. $25 would have been more than fair still.

Square does not charge you transaction fees to essentially cover the cost of this.

I like this device, though it looks like a mass produced chinese tech product, but for what its worth its so convenient to be able to keep it in a bag or near by and they pay.

 

[BuddyTronic]

Federal law actually caps our losses at $50 (and in practice, banks don't even bother collecting that due to the level of competition that exists). Debit cards are a bit more of a hassle since it is your own money that's taken out, but even that's reimbursed eventually.

Yep, and that protects the customer to a point. You are covered within limits of time and compliance with common sense type stuff. But if you realize 3 months down the road that you have had a fraudulent charge, it is more a matter of customer service with the visa bank. You cry a little bit, and that bank usually will be covering you. But the bank's personal SWAT team doesn't really pursue anyone or even make a police report for most of these things. The Police have too many real big crimes to chase down, so I believe the bank has some insurance. The premiums for that insurance come off the profits made by charging merchants service charges, or they might stick it to the actual merchants if they can in the form of a "charge back".

Anyway - Apple Pay is revolutionary just as Tim Cook said. They looked at how much Visa card security has changed in the last 30 years and jumped in because it was so so outdated.

Some Apple hater told me - "yeah but Google Pay has been around for 8 years!" - but I said to him - who uses it?

I hope Apple can get their stuff together and kill this problem with their fantastic solution.

I hope the evil Walmarts of this world don't keep trying to copycat Apple Pay with QR codes or other nonsense.

Just get Apple Pay to work and let it roll is what I want. It takes Donald Trump to solve anything these days!

 

[American Hero]

Yep, and that protects the customer to a point. You are covered within limits of time and compliance with common sense type stuff. But if you realize 3 months down the road that you have had a fraudulent charge, it is more a matter of customer service with the visa bank. You cry a little bit, and that bank usually will be covering you. But the bank's personal SWAT team doesn't really pursue anyone or even make a police report for most of these things. The Police have too many real big crimes to chase down, so I believe the bank has some insurance. The premiums for that insurance come off the profits made by charging merchants service charges, or they might stick it to the actual merchants if they can in the form of a "charge back".

Anyone with some common sense would constantly check their bank's website to see what transactions have been posted recently. I don't feel bad for anyone who has a fraudulent charge on their account, but doesn't notice it until three months later-- that my friend, is irresponsibility.

 

[BuddyTronic]

Anyone with some common sense would constantly check their bank's website to see what transactions have been posted recently. I don't feel bad for anyone who has a fraudulent charge on their account, but doesn't notice it until three months later-- that my friend, is irresponsibility.

Well, I am guilty of doing just that.

I had an online company charge me incorrectly and inappropriately. It was their system that was automagically charging me 1 year after the original purchase. It was Adidas online store actually! I recall it fully now.

I did buy a soccer jersey for World cup soccer a couple years ago, then last year I got another charge for the same thing! Those Jerks!

I called Visa and got it handled.

I have big statements with lots of charges - it's hard to track them all.

Particularly evil is when you do business with a company like "John's TV supplies" and then on the VISA card it comes out as "JTV export cor. Chicag" what the heck is that charge for? It is madness. You finally decode it by searching for an Email receipt or something and match up the total on the invoice maybe, but it's a responsibility headache for me.

That "Adidas" i let go for a while and then thought about it and said "Hey I didn't order from there that month, where is that statement, I better check this again".

It happens

 

[tmiw]

I hope Apple can get their stuff together and kill this problem with their fantastic solution.

I hope the evil Walmarts of this world don't keep trying to copycat Apple Pay with QR codes or other nonsense.

Just get Apple Pay to work and let it roll is what I want. It takes Donald Trump to solve anything these days!

I can actually see retailer-specific apps being far more successful than Apple Pay via NFC if said retailers played their cards right. Starbucks' app for instance will let you add your card to Wallet, automatically popping up when you're at a Starbucks. You can also reload said card using Apple Pay and place pickup orders the same way. Target's app still allows for data collection since you need to provide a name for store pickup (and shipping address if you're getting the items shipped). In the future said retailer apps could even enable things like mobile-only checkout, where you scan your items as you shop and pay in-app at the end without having to wait in line for a cashier. Those sorts of things would be far more convenient than the 2-3 second savings NFC would provide over chip.

Of course, I'm not sure they'll play their cards right. They did come out with CurrentC, which is basically a cynical data grab that doesn't add anything for the consumer.

 

[nocturnum]

I'm super curiously thrilled and excited and aroused by these contactless sheep shavers. The heat is on.

 

[petsounds]

It's puzzling to me why Apple wouldn't sell their own card reader and provide a soup-to-nuts platform for small businesses. I already see iPads at many mom-n-pop stores being used for their POS system. They're all running janky custom apps. They're mostly all using the Square readers. Why is Apple happy to let Square insert themselves between Apple Pay and the end-customer? They need to get into this huge market segment.

 

[lordofthereef]

Super curious when Apple will let an iOS device accept an Apple Pay NFC charge natively. All the hardware is there.

I'd love to just allow nfc reading, period. Doesn't need to be for payments.

 

[iGeek2014]

I work in Retail here in the UK and the suppliers of our EPOS system don't yet have a card reader capable of NFC.

Such a shame because I know there are customers of ours who want to use Apple Pay!

It'd also be ideal for when they've left their wallet at home. Rather than us trusting them to come back (90% of people do luckily) anyone who is set up for AP could use a device like Square.

 

[lordofthereef]

[QUOTE="tmiw, post: 22533575, member: 112287"

(Despite what some think, loyalty card support in Apple Pay is not good enough for them. For one thing, most won't opt-in because they don't want to bother filling out a form. And some people who do use it will use fake info, enter a random phone number at checkout or even just claim they "forgot" their card and have the clerk scan the "emergency" loyalty card that's next to each register.)[/QUOTE]

I may be mistaken but I think the loyalty cards (where this shines) are those linked directly to a bank account or credit card. I am unsure that your standard loyalty card even pplaies to be honest, but I very well could be wron gthere. In any case, this absolutely adds a large layer of security to a card that taps directly into a bank account for funds.

 

[johnfrombeyond]

Anyone with some common sense would constantly check their bank's website to see what transactions have been posted recently. I don't feel bad for anyone who has a fraudulent charge on their account, but doesn't notice it until three months later-- that my friend, is irresponsibility.

I WISH I had that much time on my hands.