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Apple Offers Developers a Closer Look at the New Mac Pro
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Scared old men, running away from the future... that's the image I get of you and your peers, with all respect. Enjoy whatever suits you mate, as long as it doesn't mean it makes you insecure enough to have to deride new design and tech.
PS: If you can send me a showreel, I'd love to see it, but sadly I don't own any computer with a ZIP drive or floppies, so maybe I'll have to miss out.
As a First gen Intel MacPro user, I have mixed feelings. One, I can totally see myself having one of these. On the flip side, that means I would have to get Thunderbolt cases for all my HHD's that are currently on my MacPro which currently run about $700+ or the cheaper alternative with Firewire cases, at least they give me a choice. I also have a capture card so that would mean I would have to buy a Thunderbolt PCIe case, but then again I hardly capture much. The same can be said about my optical drive, I hardly use the thing unless I'm backing up Dreamcast games.
Graphics, I was disappointed that they are using proprietary connections but dual gpu's and using the next gen AMD's. I don't see it getting long on the tooth till maybe 5+ years, which is currently around my MacPro's age but I was able to prolong it with adding a flashed 5770 and upgrading the Xeon's from dual to quads.
All that being said, I can definitely look forward into getting one as long as the price is "Reasonable", which remains to be seen.
Have you shopped for Thunderbolt peripherals? It's exasperating - 2 years in most of what you need is still 'in development' and what little is available is so impossibly expensive. Like we'd finally reached a point where storage was practically free then Apple somehow figured out how to make 2 $100 drives cost $1000.
Also, now that most rendering is pawned off on GPUs, the fact that the new Mac Pro is locked up totally prevents me from having the ability to upgrade incrementally by keeping up with the latest video cards. My 3+ years old Mac Pro had a whole new life breathed into it with a couple SSD's, more RAM and video card bump - good luck doing that with Apple's latest brick.
So in your line of work, you have no need for a computer that is multiples faster than a current Mac Pro; what you're looking for is the PROSPECT of upgrading it with internal components only, years down the line? And you are totally against external storage and expansion....
Alas, that's the functional difference between the new and old Mac Pro. It's faster and more expandable (36 TB2 devices) than the MP before it. Yet that's not enough.
What the hell is the complaint then? That it looks too much like a consumer device, even though it blows the crap out of your current system? That it's not mountable in a rack (lmfao)?
Really?!?
01. It's a cable the entire industry supports, adoption takes time, just like USB.
02. It is a new tool, in a shiny case.
03. Expandability is 'unlimited' once it's moved outside the 'box'.
04. Cable clutter possible, but manageable. Show me an old Pro w/o tons of connected items.
05. Don't need places for HDs, SSDs are now it. HDs now too slow.
06. More than 500MB/s? You need 10+ disc RAID array (ie external w/TB).
07. Video cards? Hello, 2 WS level GPUs built-in, better than anything for old Pro.
08. You can add RAM. There are 4 slots. Realistically, will you ever add more than 128GB?
09. They're killing you? Nothing you can use? Really?
10. To paraphrase Steve, you wanted a "faster horse & buggy", instead they built a car.
11. Changing things we've all come to know, love and "need" is what Apple does. Try PC land, they don't.
12. It's not just for the sake of change, it's to advance the state of the art.
13. Yes, FCP-X was a ****-up, and they've worked to fix that. Nobody's perfect.
14. It's meant to go on a table, not under it.
15. Rats nest of cables? See reply point #4. TB daisy chains - take advantage of that.
16. Yes, HDs, PCIe cards & Blu-ray drives, etc will have to live outside the box. See reply point #3.
17. FW drives, cameras, etc? You plug these in now, yes? So what's different?
18. Legacy? TB to FW adapters exist. So do TB docks. Lots of options.
19. No it's not rackable. Was the old Pro? No. 3rd party? Yes. Any bets for new 3rd party mounts?
20. TB to Fibre Channel adapters already exist. Yes, they're pricey, so is anything w/FC.
21. Apple does listen to suggestions, but see reply point #10.
22. Final cut does work. See reply point #13.
23. HS kids can use regular monitors just fine (DP, HDMI, DVI). They'll be on Mac minis anyway.
24. Not a disaster. Think Different. It is Pro - Xeon, WS GPUs, ECC, TB, 2xGig-E, etc.
25. Too bad you're depressed. You need to reevaluate cause you're not seeing the possibilities.
01. It's a cable the entire industry supports, adoption takes time, just like USB.
02. It is a new tool, in a shiny case.
03. Expandability is 'unlimited' once it's moved outside the 'box'.
04. Cable clutter possible, but manageable. Show me an old Pro w/o tons of connected items.
05. Don't need places for HDs, SSDs are now it. HDs now too slow.
06. More than 500MB/s? You need 10+ disc RAID array (ie external w/TB).
07. Video cards? Hello, 2 WS level GPUs built-in, better than anything for old Pro.
08. You can add RAM. There are 4 slots. Realistically, will you ever add more than 128GB?
09. They're killing you? Nothing you can use? Really?
10. To paraphrase Steve, you wanted a "faster horse & buggy", instead they built a car.
11. Changing things we've all come to know, love and "need" is what Apple does. Try PC land, they don't.
12. It's not just for the sake of change, it's to advance the state of the art.
13. Yes, FCP-X was a ****-up, and they've worked to fix that. Nobody's perfect.
14. It's meant to go on a table, not under it.
15. Rats nest of cables? See reply point #4. TB daisy chains - take advantage of that.
16. Yes, HDs, PCIe cards & Blu-ray drives, etc will have to live outside the box. See reply point #3.
17. FW drives, cameras, etc? You plug these in now, yes? So what's different?
18. Legacy? TB to FW adapters exist. So do TB docks. Lots of options.
19. No it's not rackable. Was the old Pro? No. 3rd party? Yes. Any bets for new 3rd party mounts?
20. TB to Fibre Channel adapters already exist. Yes, they're pricey, so is anything w/FC.
21. Apple does listen to suggestions, but see reply point #10.
22. Final cut does work. See reply point #13.
23. HS kids can use regular monitors just fine (DP, HDMI, DVI). They'll be on Mac minis anyway.
24. Not a disaster. Think Different. It is Pro - Xeon, WS GPUs, ECC, TB, 2xGig-E, etc.
25. Too bad you're depressed. You need to reevaluate cause you're not seeing the possibilities.
Interesting. I think I found Mac Pro in my girlfriend's night stand drawer. Only hers must have the vibrate option.
I've heard Walter Murch speak... and he has cut some great films on the old Final Cut Pro...
But I was always under the impression that AVID ruled the Hollywood industry.
That may be so, but I bet Smoke runs like a bat out of hell on this new machine.
I am going to reserve final judgement until I physically get my paws on one for a run through.
Specs alone it looks like a great machine for photography, 3D animation and motion graphics. I think these people might be on to something about having a rack mounted enclosure that houses drives.
I would be very skeptical of any "big time" post houses in LA that actually used internal drives in workstations as media drives. My bet goes that they all work off networked shared FibreChannel storage housed in a temperature controlled clean room. Same goes for projects, more than likely stored on a globally shared network drive.
It would have made a lot more sense to include higher speed ethernet ports; but I suppose you could also just use a Thunderbolt adapter for that.
All in all I think everyone is pissing their pants way too early. For all we know that CPU and GPU modules are user upgradeable.
-mark
Yes, the GPU brand choice is the _only_ thing I dislike from the new Mac Pro. But it's a dual GPU, so I like the idea a lot, even if I prefer NVIDIA over AMD (which I do). OTOH, as a long time SGI user and developer in past decades, I learnt to never depend on vendor-specific APIs and always rely on standards. So, I've never used CUDA, and I'll never will. The SGI lesson, losing a lot of my code after their fall, taught me to never do it again.
So, with OpenGL plus OpenCL, I'll love this dual GPU system, even if I'd prefer an NVIDIA based system, of course
Awesome - but if they put the same guts they announced today into something a little more accommodating none of would be having this conversation right now. The Kool-Aid drinkers would love it no matter what and the professionals would have the tools they need. Instead, the professionals are left in the lurch again and the market has a new product that nobody really wanted.
The more I look at it the more perplexed I get. Seriously, who is it for? What purpose does it serve? What product need did it fill? Apple's good at selling people stuff they don't need, which is great, but when the professionals that made them and stood by them through the lean years asked for something we all got kicked in the teeth. Apple has now taken all of our trusted, beloved tools away from us, given us trinkets and thrown us into the street. What's next, an iBlanket covered in smallpox?
Scared luddites decrying something that noone has physically used or touched yet = hilariousssss
Argh...
Great look, neat design, but completely misses the mark of what a Mac Pro does - expandability.
This is an iMac without a display - nothing more.
It doesn't even look like you can update memory.
oh well - at least the current gen will be cheaper to buy on the open market once this brick hits the stores.
Great look, neat design, but completely misses the mark of what a Mac Pro does - expandability.
This is an iMac without a display - nothing more.
It doesn't even look like you can update memory.
oh well - at least the current gen will be cheaper to buy on the open market once this brick hits the stores.
This thread is an exact, hilarious echo of the ones that flooded onto MR once FCP X was released... noone died from new computers or software - use it or don't, then shut up about it, either way.
What makes everybody so sure...
...that the graphics cards can not be upgraded? From what I've seen in the images, they appear to be plenty accessible.
From the description in the keynote address, the only AMD FirePro card that fits the bill is this one:
It's the W9000, which is the only card with 6GB of memory that can run in crossfire mode with another card and supports 4K video. This tells me two things for sure:
1. This machine is going to be screaming fast
2. These cards ain't cheap and the price of the Mac Pro will likely reflect this
Here's the link to the info on the card in case you're curious:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/workstation/graphics/ati-firepro-3d/w9000/Pages/w9000.aspx
...that the graphics cards can not be upgraded? From what I've seen in the images, they appear to be plenty accessible.
From the description in the keynote address, the only AMD FirePro card that fits the bill is this one:
It's the W9000, which is the only card with 6GB of memory that can run in crossfire mode with another card and supports 4K video. This tells me two things for sure:
1. This machine is going to be screaming fast
2. These cards ain't cheap and the price of the Mac Pro will likely reflect this
Here's the link to the info on the card in case you're curious:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/workstation/graphics/ati-firepro-3d/w9000/Pages/w9000.aspx
Spot on. Avid workstations are the norm. Mac/Final Cut is finished.
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anniversay
It looks like the designers never got over their crush of the 20th anniversary edition mac.
That being said, I am very ambivalent about this one. I think it will depend on price, ability to replace graphics cards as they age, RAM options, and how plentiful/cost effective drives and PCIe chassis will be (not to mention the clutter).
At this point though it is looking like I'll go with my alternate plan of getting a suped up BOXX system. During the long wait, I began transitioning away from Mac only applications. By this Fall, I'll be ready to jump ship if needed.
It looks like the designers never got over their crush of the 20th anniversary edition mac.
That being said, I am very ambivalent about this one. I think it will depend on price, ability to replace graphics cards as they age, RAM options, and how plentiful/cost effective drives and PCIe chassis will be (not to mention the clutter).
At this point though it is looking like I'll go with my alternate plan of getting a suped up BOXX system. During the long wait, I began transitioning away from Mac only applications. By this Fall, I'll be ready to jump ship if needed.
The problem is, video from the card is not output directly. It is looped back into the motherboard, then it is routed to any one of a number of Thunderbolt ports. You can't just plug a card in.
Upgrade capability is one of the most obvious questions, let's hope Apple has a good answer.
Upgrade capability?
store.apple.com is accessible 24 hours a day, 365 days per year, and accepts Amex, Visa and Mastercard. You'd also be pleased to know that the Apple Store ships 5 days a week.
All the stores in the world will do you no good, if there are no upgrades to buy.
Fair enough...
That does appear to make it more difficult. Having said that, I'm pretty sure that the GPU manufacturers will figure out a way to tie into the internal scheme in this machine. It would not be cheap but then these are not low-end cards we're talking about here.
I think it's safe to say that this is the most GPU power a Mac has ever had, relative to the industry at the time of its release. This is of course assuming that the launch happens some time this fall.
That does appear to make it more difficult. Having said that, I'm pretty sure that the GPU manufacturers will figure out a way to tie into the internal scheme in this machine. It would not be cheap but then these are not low-end cards we're talking about here.
I think it's safe to say that this is the most GPU power a Mac has ever had, relative to the industry at the time of its release. This is of course assuming that the launch happens some time this fall.
You are assuming that Apple did not do their homework. Everyone in the cell phone industry assumed the same thing, and I can assure that the original iPhone did every single thing that Apple claimed it did; and it quite honestly made other phones look like junk technology.
Apparently folks from Pixar are going to be doing demos later this week showcasing the new machine, I may be wrong, but I think the folks at Pixar are really into "high-end" computer graphics.
Everyone assumes Steve would not approve; you really think they developed this from the time Steve passed until know, no I don't think that is the case, Steve was involved in this.
I am excited that for once Apple is releasing a machine with real workstation graphics and supporting the latest OpenGL standard and people who business relies on graphical horsepower are bitching. Get real. Ok I get it that Adobe uses CUDA instead of OpenCL, but I will put a big guess that Creative Cloud is using OpenCL by the time this is released. And in the long run it makes more sense for Adobe to switch to OpenCL since it works on both AMD and nVidia -- putting all your eggs in one basket is never a wise decision.
The first time AJA Video released the Io brand of Firewire based capture devices; that pretty much signaled to me that the days of internal PCI cards was going to be dead soon, and how many times have we been burned when card interface technology changed? NuBus -> PCI -> PCI-X (for like 1.5 years) -> PCI express. The promise seems to be that as Thunderbolt matures, it will remain backwards compatible; we shall see.
-mark
Yeah, that's the concern... if that card, X2, the MacPro could cost $10k by the time you add in the markup from AMD for custom drivers...
The Mac Pro has always been about workstation-class speed and capability.
I wasn't aware there was a 12-core iMac.
The RAM is replaceable on the new Mac Pro.
I thought the whole problem with the current-gen Mac Pro was the speed of the processor? Sure... you can buy one cheap... but you get what you pay for.
The new Mac Pro is still a beast... even if you can't load it up with SATA drives or PCIe cards...
I don't know how to comment on the technical side yet since very few information has been revealed so far, but judging from the video, it surely looks like an Apple branded trash can... Jony Ive is such a great designer but maybe he needs some Jobsian style control too