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Apple Offers Developers a Closer Look at the New Mac Pro
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One of the forum members here in another thread stated it best when he said that Intel specs the clock frequency at all of the cores running yet not exceeding the TDP for the CPU, i.e., all the cores at 100% and the specified clock rate will not exceed the maximum TDP. In turbo mode, a single core, or less than the maximum amount of cores in use, will be clocked at a higher frequency.
I haven't see the specs for the E5-2697 which is the 12 core, but I'd guess that any E5-26xx processor at the same TDP will have the same maximum clock frequency at the same number of cores in use, more or less. (I did find a foreign language link that stated that the maximum clock frequency was 3.7 Ghz fro the E5-2697 but I couldn't find that in the article). I don't have a clue if each core is independently clocked, but that may be the case.
That's really great for someone that has needs for more cores at times, but the downside is that it is a much more expensive processor.
Bottom line, Apple will problably have the highest end "best" variant 12 core with the highest end GPGPU
What I still find quite disturbing with this new MP, is that Apple is trying to bring "fashion" to workstations. There are new things not because they are better than old ones, but because they are new. Old things are dropped not because new are better, but because they are old.
I can accept fashions in consumer electronics, but not with professional tools like workstations. And I guess I'm not alone.
Half of this thread is about how you can do same things with new MP than with old one. It's just more expensive (lots of TB-boxes) and there will be less alternatives (osx support for pcie-cards will die just like for ec cards).
Very little has been discussion about how could you do the same than with new MP, also with old style MP. Pretty much all new things new MP offers is 6 TB sockets, second GPU and pcie SDD.
All these things could have been done with old style MP also. So it could have been possible to combine both new and old MP; have all the new things and multiple expandable internal storage slots, optional ODD and lots of new superfast pcie slots. Pcie slots would have also gave opportunity to expand fast pcie-sdd.
I can accept fashions in consumer electronics, but not with professional tools like workstations. And I guess I'm not alone.
Half of this thread is about how you can do same things with new MP than with old one. It's just more expensive (lots of TB-boxes) and there will be less alternatives (osx support for pcie-cards will die just like for ec cards).
Very little has been discussion about how could you do the same than with new MP, also with old style MP. Pretty much all new things new MP offers is 6 TB sockets, second GPU and pcie SDD.
All these things could have been done with old style MP also. So it could have been possible to combine both new and old MP; have all the new things and multiple expandable internal storage slots, optional ODD and lots of new superfast pcie slots. Pcie slots would have also gave opportunity to expand fast pcie-sdd.
Yeah, the section on criticisms is what I was thinking about. If you accelerate a bearing's speed, you increase the running temperature far beyond what it would EVER experience under normal conditions and thus it's not really "age" that is occurring, but rather running the machine out of spec. It might be helpful data, but it's not truly accurate. It's like the car waxes that claim the car's surface still beads water after 500 washes. Well, 500 washes in a row is not remotely the same thing as letting a car sit out in the sun and other weather conditions (and moving at high speed in such conditions) for long periods of time, etc. I've seen wax wear off even only getting wet perhaps a dozen times over 4 months. No one washes their car 500 times in a row. It sounds good on TV (i.e. simulated "weather" but it's not water that's necessarily wearing off the wax in real conditions, but high speed wind-born dust particles, etc. acting like a light weight sand blaster or whatever).
So basically, maybe these discs will last 1000 years and maybe not.
Of course tv ads oversimplify things.
And nothing in real life is infinitely exact.
But doing a good statistical testing gives a pretty good estimation.
Accelerated aging is simulation, not the real thing.
You take a batches of ball bearings and see how long they last in normal conditions. Then you alter conditions and test new batches. After a few batches you can find the right curve to move from real results to theoretical ones.
I haven't looked the white papers on M-Disc, but if they want to be taken seriously, they tell the statistical variations of their product's lifespan and how they scale their safety factors. Maybe 90% of their products last 200% of their nominal lifespan. Also 1% might last only 10% of nominal lifespan.
Nevertheless probability math doesn't guarantee any individual case. But it gives you a calculated risk, which is usually better than nothing.
Luckily, we don't usually have many terabytes of critically important unique information. Even when our civilization is recording zettabytes of data per year. National and private archives have to weight how much they are willing to pay for archiving the information.
I'd guess that Falcon Ridge will be pcie v3. That'll make 31GB/s / 4 lanes. 15.5 GB/s per TB socket is quite close to 20GB/s.
If TBs take 12 lanes, GPUs 32 or 24 lanes, usb3 hopefully 2 lanes and the rest maybe 1. So those maybe 40 lanes are pretty much in use, although dual CPU would have given 80 pcie lanes...
PCIe 3.0 for its input lanes, but PCIe 2.0 for the output lanes.
That's a good thing. It doesn't make T-Bolt v2 any faster, but it reduces the demand on mobo lanes to feed it.
It's surprising that the Apple fans aren't livid about losing the second processor socket (and its 40 additional lanes of PCIe 3.0). Maybe when they see the benchmarks of the Itube agains 24-core HPs and Dells they'll realize that the Itube is a souped up Mini - not a workstation.
Apple's old scam, first they take it away and then, let's say in 2016 they'll introduce amazing breakthrough in innovation; new New mac pro (huge applauds)!
" Our genious designers looked at triangle heatsink and brainstormed how this marvelous piece of art and best heatsink in the known multiverses could be further developed. After trying things we mortals can't even imagine, they came up with amazing idea to add one corner to the triangle! And there it is: The Great Cubic Heatsink! Can't innovate anymore my ass! It even has Apple logo in it where nobody can see it without x-ray!
...and one more thing: since the heatsink has one side more than the old one..." [Moscone center explodes and SJ's silhuette is projected with white lasers to the clouds above...]
I said before, but have forgotten where.
Work the business logic BACKWARDS from the product to the intended target demographic and you discover its not for pros older than 30 years old.
This machine is the quintessential workstation for the hipstagram generation. Zero inclination to boil an egg, what makes anyone think that they would ever lift the hood on a true pro machine?
Many voices here simply failed to 'get the memo'.....
It's not the machine for 'us'.....
It's for 'them'
Work the business logic BACKWARDS from the product to the intended target demographic and you discover its not for pros older than 30 years old.
This machine is the quintessential workstation for the hipstagram generation. Zero inclination to boil an egg, what makes anyone think that they would ever lift the hood on a true pro machine?
Many voices here simply failed to 'get the memo'.....
It's not the machine for 'us'.....
It's for 'them'
I said before, but have forgotten where.
Work the business logic BACKWARDS from the product to the intended target demographic and you discover its not for pros older than 30 years old.
This machine is the quintessential workstation for the hipstagram generation. Zero inclination to boil an egg, what makes anyone think that they would ever lift the hood on a true pro machine?
Many voices here simply failed to 'get the memo'.....
It's not the machine for 'us'.....
It's for 'them'
I see it as the same thing as sports cars. Most of the 'kids' that want one in their 20s either can't afford one or they suddenly realize they don't know how to drive a stick shift (e.g. My WRX doesn't come in an automatic on this side of the pond). Others can't afford it but buy it anyway instead of other things (like food, saving for a house, etc.). They then pay more for their insurance than their car payment (which is already higher than they can afford) and end up living with their parents until they're 40 since they have no savings for a house and the car and insurance gets the payment instead of an apartment. Sorry, but the Corvette is made for and targeted to people 50+ for the most part because they're typically the ones that can afford one new.
What I'm getting at here is most of these "20 something Pros" don't NEED nor can they truly afford this new Mac Pro. Many people buy one anyway because they think it's cool (and I mean the current Mac Pro) or perhaps because it's the only Mac that has ever really been suited to gaming, even if it was never intended for that and costs too much relative to a gaming PC for that purpose unless you're a Mac fanatic and wouldn't be caught dead owning a Windows machine (unless it runs on your Mac and then suddenly it's OK for some reason
).Yeah, there are some successful people in their 20s out there. There's also some lottery winners out there. That doesn't mean it's a real market share. Most 20-somethings think they're supposed to make movies on their iPad (and with the iPad's camera no less!). They don't use desktops! That's for dinosaurs man!
The point is the Mac Pro market IS for 30-something and up. Apple doesn't seem to get that at all. It's my generation that grew up with desktops, knows how to use them and more likely has the free cash to buy them without sacrificing lunch for the next two years.
I see it as the same thing as sports cars. Most of the 'kids' that want one in their 20s either can't afford one or they suddenly realize they don't know how to drive a stick shift (e.g. My WRX doesn't come in an automatic on this side of the pond). Others can't afford it but buy it anyway instead of other things (like food, saving for a house, etc.). They then pay more for their insurance than their car payment (which is already higher than they can afford) and end up living with their parents until they're 40 since they have no savings for a house and the car and insurance gets the payment instead of an apartment. Sorry, but the Corvette is made for and targeted to people 50+ for the most part because they're typically the ones that can afford one new.
What I'm getting at here is most of these "20 something Pros" don't NEED nor can they truly afford this new Mac Pro. Many people buy one anyway because they think it's cool (and I mean the current Mac Pro) or perhaps because it's the only Mac that has ever really been suited to gaming, even if it was never intended for that and costs too much relative to a gaming PC for that purpose unless you're a Mac fanatic and wouldn't be caught dead owning a Windows machine (unless it runs on your Mac and then suddenly it's OK for some reason
Yeah, there are some successful people in their 20s out there. There's also some lottery winners out there. That doesn't mean it's a real market share. Most 20-somethings think they're supposed to make movies on their iPad (and with the iPad's camera no less!). They don't use desktops! That's for dinosaurs man!
The point is the Mac Pro market IS for 30-something and up. Apple doesn't seem to get that at all. It's my generation that grew up with desktops, knows how to use them and more likely has the free cash to buy them without sacrificing lunch for the next two years.
How does the age of a user get confused with the needs of a computer professional?
HP/Dell/Lenovo/... don't ask for your ID when you order a workstation.
Your comment borders on the absurd. (edit: ) No, it crosses the border.
Exactly. I'm very over 30 and I can't wait to get the new MacPro. The only issue I see with the MacPro is people overbuying for their needs. Regardless of how old they are, if they don't need the power, they are wasting their money buying one when a Mac mini, MacBook/Pro or iMac would do. Anyone who complains about needing to add things on as a peripheral really isn't operating at the level the MacPro is designed for because power users already have plenty of externals on their system. A couple more is no big deal to those people.
Usually I agree with much or your comments, Aiden, but lately you've wandered off into left field somewhere. There is nothing absurd about building something, whether it be a car, a house, a set of speakers or yes, a professional workstation for a target audience. If you think that the Corvette was designed with 18-year olds in mind as the target audience that GM is likely to sell a bunch of those things to you're crazy. The only 18 year old that can afford a brand new Corvette is either born into a really rich (and yet stupid if they buy their 18-year old child a Corvette as a first car to get themselves killed in) or a criminal (i.e. drug dealer) and perhaps a few teeny-bopper "stars". They are NOT marketed to 18-year olds and for good reason (they mostly can't afford them).
So exactly how many 18-year old video professionals do you know that NEED, let alone can afford a $4000-12000 fully loaded Mac Pro computer with all the pro software and possible additional hardware (like high end video cameras for original filming material projects) to go with it? I'm betting NONE. Kids use crap like iPads and things like iMovie to diddle on YouTube. They don't typically use $6k RAID drives on a $12k Macs. I'm not saying no one that age has ever bought such a thing (just as I'm sure there's a few Corvettes sold to 18-year olds), but that's not the market audience they're aiming for. iMovie is the audience that aims for kids and young adults just like Garage Band was originally designed to appeal to kids and tinkerers while Logic Pro (when it used to cost ~$1200) was reserved for professionals. Apple has dropped the price of Logic a LOT since then, making it affordable to most people, but then they haven't UPDATED it much since then either which says something about their commitment to true professional products these days.
Absurd my arse.
Apple has been making Mac Pro computers for the past 6 years for a largely non-existent audience. Instead of asking the people that actually NEED them for work what they want, they're making what they think looks cool or would attract a high school student rather than what is needed to get actual work done across multiple types of clients. Is it any wonder then that the Mac Pro sold so few units in recent years and has been so neglected by Apple? People won't buy crap not designed for their needs.
Now Mr. Cook (who has YET to impress me with a single visionary product or direction for those products) seems to be into more fashion than function and I just don't see it as the right direction for a Mac Pro at all. Who CARES WTF the box it's in looks like in the professional market? It's typically hidden from site anyway. But you need to be able to plug in the gear you use and this thing has no PCI expansion and that's a fatal blow to the true Pro market, IMO. Yeah, there will be some people doing professional work on it that don't need that gear and a lot of wannabes that think they need a Mac Pro and it looks cool, etc., but I'm afraid the true professional market in Apple's eyes now seems to be the YouTube generation, not people in actual TV and movie jobs.
Usually I agree with much or your comments, Aiden, but lately you've wandered off into left field somewhere. There is nothing absurd about building something, whether it be a car, a house, a set of speakers or yes, a professional workstation for a target audience. If you think that the Corvette was designed with 18-year olds in mind as the target audience that GM is likely to sell a bunch of those things to you're crazy. The only 18 year old that can afford a brand new Corvette is either born into a really rich (and yet stupid if they buy their 18-year old child a Corvette as a first car to get themselves killed in) or a criminal (i.e. drug dealer) and perhaps a few teeny-bopper "stars". They are NOT marketed to 18-year olds and for good reason (they mostly can't afford them).
So exactly how many 18-year old video professionals do you know that NEED, let alone can afford a $4000-12000 fully loaded Mac Pro computer with all the pro software and possible additional hardware (like high end video cameras for original filming material projects) to go with it? I'm betting NONE. Kids use crap like iPads and things like iMovie to diddle on YouTube. They don't typically use $6k RAID drives on a $12k Macs. I'm not saying no one that age has ever bought such a thing (just as I'm sure there's a few Corvettes sold to 18-year olds), but that's not the market audience they're aiming for. iMovie is the audience that aims for kids and young adults just like Garage Band was originally designed to appeal to kids and tinkerers while Logic Pro (when it used to cost ~$1200) was reserved for professionals. Apple has dropped the price of Logic a LOT since then, making it affordable to most people, but then they haven't UPDATED it much since then either which says something about their commitment to true professional products these days.
Absurd my arse.
Apple has been making Mac Pro computers for the past 6 years for a largely non-existent audience. Instead of asking the people that actually NEED them for work what they want, they're making what they think looks cool or would attract a high school student rather than what is needed to get actual work done across multiple types of clients. Is it any wonder then that the Mac Pro sold so few units in recent years and has been so neglected by Apple? People won't buy crap not designed for their needs.
Now Mr. Cook (who has YET to impress me with a single visionary product or direction for those products) seems to be into more fashion than function and I just don't see it as the right direction for a Mac Pro at all. Who CARES WTF the box it's in looks like in the professional market? It's typically hidden from site anyway. But you need to be able to plug in the gear you use and this thing has no PCI expansion and that's a fatal blow to the true Pro market, IMO. Yeah, there will be some people doing professional work on it that don't need that gear and a lot of wannabes that think they need a Mac Pro and it looks cool, etc., but I'm afraid the true professional market in Apple's eyes now seems to be the YouTube generation, not people in actual TV and movie jobs.
Are you afraid of using thunderbolt as a way to expand/upgrade? I know the tech is still a little young regarding variety of products to buy but I would much rather be able to swap out peripherals externally when they no longer meet my needs than open up a chassis and take the steps to remove/install something else. Doing that with my current MacPro is a pain. Internal PCI slots are also limited vs. thunderbolt externals. I also don't see why a powerful machine can't look hot at the same time. You want ugly, go cheap pc.
What does afraid have to do with anything? It's about SPEED and BANDWIDTH. Effectively, Thunderbolt 2.0 (which is really more like 1.1) is the equivalent of having a PCI 3.0 2x slot. Current motherboards offer as many as four 16x slots. Even the current Mac Pro offers PCI slots that are four times faster than the new Mac Pro's thunderbolt ports. And that assumes you will even be able to get the hardware you're looking for in that form (lest you have to buy some additional insanely overpriced breakout box that handle PCI cards and then potentially have to choke them at 1/8 their rated speed). How is that a "good" thing? All so Mr. Cook can sell a "pretty" looking box? I can't tell you how freaking STUPID that is from a functionality standpoint.
Thunderbolt is an overpriced competitor for USB 3.0, not for PCI backplanes. It has its uses, but it's not something that should replace PCI expansion on a "professional" grade workstation. It's more of a "Pro Mac Mini" than a valid replacement for a true Mac Pro workstation.
Let me ask again
with current mac pro I have 4 drives internal and two BR burners
the new mac pro, is made to look cool, but why make it look cool if you can't use it for anything like a BR burner why have it on the dest lets just put it on the floor but why make it so nice and useless if we can't upgrade it or ad drives to it, just to let it sit on the floor
Now I will need all the room on my desk for 3 extra drives plus two external burners hold on that 3 times the desk space what I use now plus where do i gonna fit my 3 30" monitors
I need to add overhead shelf for the extra drives now
99 % of my clients have DVD or BR players and thats how they watch their wedding videos that they pay $5,000.00 for now I will have to tell them that they will have to invest in a better TV before they pick up their USB Drive so they can watch their Video, plus they can't share the movie with their parents and friends because they have to invest in a better TV
and what programs what programs will I use for installing 60 Gig of blue ray movies on USB drive
Oh well I have to invest in a true pro computer that ail allow me to add drives and BR burner
Apple may sell some computers at start as there is allots of people with money that use their mac pros for browsing internet
for me and 1000 of people like me do not care about the looks but usability and this new mac is useless and not usable
This will have the same faith as the CUBE, lasted what 2 years and it was discontinue and the new mac pros where introduced
Like I sad we want usability and not good looks we do not care about the looks
The Demographic Shift
Let's try to keep our eye on the ball and cite how manufacturers are doing the same.
1) America's largest demographic are now our married's- some with children on the way. The Millennials ( AKA Trust Fund Babies)
2) Everyone has been ramping up and actually selling to Trust Fund Babies
3) The Millennials are glad to offer their services as saviors of the economy even as they muddle from one beta product to the next easily collecting a gargantuan inventory of products and upgrades.
4) Millennials are completely blindsided by performance. I have proven this time and again that they depend on performance as a psychological crutch. This is borne out by the ocean of photographers that can't feel comfortable shooting their cats with anything but the very latest megapixel toy from Asia or how about some High Def Cat movies shot in 4K video?
That's what Apple calculated. Psuedo Pros cutting skateboarding movies in 4K to be downrezed to 1080p for youtube. LOL!
Let's try to keep our eye on the ball and cite how manufacturers are doing the same.
1) America's largest demographic are now our married's- some with children on the way. The Millennials ( AKA Trust Fund Babies)
2) Everyone has been ramping up and actually selling to Trust Fund Babies
3) The Millennials are glad to offer their services as saviors of the economy even as they muddle from one beta product to the next easily collecting a gargantuan inventory of products and upgrades.
4) Millennials are completely blindsided by performance. I have proven this time and again that they depend on performance as a psychological crutch. This is borne out by the ocean of photographers that can't feel comfortable shooting their cats with anything but the very latest megapixel toy from Asia or how about some High Def Cat movies shot in 4K video?
That's what Apple calculated. Psuedo Pros cutting skateboarding movies in 4K to be downrezed to 1080p for youtube. LOL!
Yeah just look at all those trust fund babies in Detroit....
BECAUSE the trust fund babies and their families didn't pay any taxes (That's the point of trust funds) ... there's no money for Detroit. Get it fellas?