Apple Offers to Replace iPads With MacBooks in Maine State Classrooms

[spinedoc77]

You know, reading the comments here, I can't help but wonder just how much of the problem is due to the limitations of the iPad, and how much is due to the close-mindedness of the people using them and their unwillingness / inability to change their usage patterns.

I mean, we have people maintaining entire websites using their iPad, like Macstories. Sure, it's more the exception than the norm for now, but it also shows what is possible if the user cares enough to want to master the iPad in its entirety.

I don't know about that. The ipad doesn't make a very good PC replacement, although how badly it does that job depends on what you are trying to do. Let's narrow it down to word processing, since that's something that is probably pretty important to a student. Firstly having no mouse support is detrimental, word processing programs are designed this way. Of course there are the iOS editions of Office, but then again this brings us to another detriment, watered down versions of the full program.

You can definitely shoehorn almost anything into working on an ipad, but does that mean you should? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. In the case of education I definitely think that's more on the definitely no side. I can't imagine having gone through school with an ipad, although I grew up in a different time with MS-DOS, wordperfect, etc. Still, it's interesting to me that those 30 year programs are still more functional than a shoehorned ipad would be for education.

 

[DontGetTheCheese]

I'm sure it's not the most fun environment but they shouldn't just hang ethernet cables from the drop ceiling like that. Looks like they need to set aside some of their IT budget for installing network jacks.

I work for a .gov and I swear this is all true,

HDMI cable broken on monitor
Phone broken
Chair 1 broken
Chair 2 broken
Chair 3 is only sort of broken
A/C broken
Desk not broken but way too short

Plus, there were 5-1/4 floppies in the office, which I guess worked, but I had no way to test that except perhaps in the PC next to mine in the office. I should mention that it too was broken.

But I had cabinet file holders by the 100's, all brand new.

 

[spinedoc77]

Its part of the reason I love my Surface Pro 3, it is very flexible device. I have the touch/tablet capability if I need it, but most of the time, the Type Cover is attached. You get more value out of it as laptop device. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple follows other operating systems like Windows, Chrome and its own OS X and make iOS windowed with true multi-tasking. It just makes sense on a device as large as the iPad Pro.

This. Why are we working so hard to water down the PC experience, what's the big take away? Windows tablets have become better and better, smaller, better battery life, UI improvements for tablet use yet having the ability to function as a full PC, etc. Why someone who needs a PC would ever want to be stuck with an ipad is beyond me.

 

[dk001]

And George RR Martin writes his novels on a DOS computer. My god, he's selling so many books and has a hit TV Show! we're all doing it wrong folks, throw your Macs in the trash and get that 386 out of the attic!

You see my point? One data point a trend does not make. Using a phone for that kind of work is idiotic.

I have an Amiga 600. Will that work?

 

[69Mustang]

And Chromebooks are just a web browser.

Oh they'll someday be able to run Android apps... but those will just be blown up phone apps.

I'm curious... are Chromebooks good because they are shaped like a laptop? Because from a software standpoint... Chromebooks don't seem to offer as much as an iPad.

I'd be interested to know what software is available for Chromebooks but not for iPads.

Two things. Chromebooks are good because of their laptop form factor. They are also good because, think what you will of Google, they thought out how to approach the education market. Chromebooks are inexpensive, easy to deploy and manage, and Google provides a ton of support.
When you say Chromebooks don't seem to offer as much software as an iPad are you referencing education software or apps in general? If it's education software, they're on par with each other. If it's apps in general, the iPad definitely has more. But the more is pretty inconsequential if the goal is a tool for education. Imo, of course.

 

[sunapple]

But it is not just iPads that kids are playing games on. MY son's middle school has adopted chrome books and he says many kids play games on their chrome books during class.

Sure, it's totally possible on Chromebooks too. I just think the Chromebooks or laptop in general are better for work where the iPad is better for media consumption / gaming.

I just checked with my sister what she thought about iPad not being used efficiently in school and she told me they still go to dedicated computer rooms for any MS Office related stuff and that iPad is just being used for biology (I guess they have those books on them) and gaming.

A waste of money and a failed experiment from what I'm hearing ('iPad classes' are currently an experiment on this school since about two/three years, not all students got one).

Look, I love iPad as a casual media consumption gadget, but getting work done on them is not always ideal.

 

[KiwiAdventure]

My iPad pro is for general use, travel and drawing. It will never replace my MacBook Air fully. I am using the air 90% more than the pro.
Schools are correct with their thoughts of the iPad.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Cant run professional design, engineering, plm, or mfg software in ios.
Cant teach kids how to do those jobs on ios either.
It took 50 years for the biggest companies in the biz to make those programs. No ones going to just whip up a new version overnight to run on a fickle phone OS.

iPad w/intel & OS X is necessary, otherwise iPad is a toy.

 

[Sevendaymelee]

You mean the concept of typing on glass didn't work out so well? Shocking...

 

[Works4Me]

Every time I take my iPad Air 2 and try to do some significant word processing on it (say, more than a couple of paragraphs), I ask myself why I'm doing that. Even though I can use Word or Pages, it's just SO much easier and faster on my Macbook Pro (13) or my iMac. Selecting text to copy, paste or cut is also slower on the iPad. The fact that I can't open more than document at a time in Word (or Pages) is also a big negative for me.

I can accept that some of you can use your iPads more than you would a laptop. But or me, there is absolutely no way it's a laptop or desktop replacement. As a supplement to a laptop, sure it works well (I often use it as a external display for my Macbook) and I like to read or watch videos on it. But if I want to work efficiently, it simply can't hold a candle to my iMac or Macbook Pro (even with a keyboard). For my money, as long as the IPad is saddled with iOS, it will never replace a PC or Apple macbook or desktop. I've tried. Very hard. Doesn't work for me.

 

[JGRE]

Interesting move on Apple's behalf. As the majority of schools in my area have all switched to Chromebooks from iPads. I think the Laptop is more versatile for a student in terms of academic applications.

Never understood the tablet-thing to begin with, it has only two advantages light and touch on all other counts it is inferior to a Macbook.
[doublepost=1464033263][/doublepost]

This people make me sick. They expect to throw hundreds iPad into their school and do nothing for technology do all job for them. You can't just give every student an iPad and expect something. You have to change your system, to control usage with so easy with 9.3. They need to change. They replace iPad devices with laptop not because iPas is worse but because they choose old system over change.
[doublepost=1463999751][/doublepost]
Absolutely not. iPad is a computer, it much more powerful and allows to do even more than classic PC.
Read this https://www.macstories.net/stories/working-on-the-ipad-one-year-later-still-my-favorite-computer/

There are also articles about BigFoot on the internet..............

 

[allpurposeguru]

Here we have YET ANOTHER school administration that bought a bunch of expensive, complex technology, made no plans for how to use it, and dumped them into the classroom.

My son's high school (Bellarmine College Preparatory, in San Jose, CA) uses the iPad. They issue them to every student, and they are required to bring them to class.

Before they took this step, they spent a YEAR with a group of about 30 students in an in-depth evaluation of how the devices could be used in the classroom, including textbook replacement, homework creation and turn-in, student collaboration, and teacher communications. Some ideas were good-- such as tailoring projects to specific applications and providing those applications to the students-- and some were bad. Interestingly, "locking down" the iPads and preventing students from installing their own apps turned out to be a bad idea, and was dropped.

ONLY when they came up with a plan, and got buy-in from the teachers involved, did they pull the trigger and issue them to the entire school.

The results have been fantastic. When properly utilized, the iPad can transform the classroom. When it is dumped into a classroom with no thought or a plan, as it was in Los Angeles and now it appears, in Maine, it is a distraction and disruption.

 

[bennibeef]

Before they took this step, they spent a YEAR with a group of about 30 students in an in-depth evaluation of how the devices could be used in the classroom, including textbook replacement, homework creation and turn-in, student collaboration, and teacher communications. Some ideas were good-- such as tailoring projects to specific applications and providing those applications to the students-- and some were bad. Interestingly, "locking down" the iPads and preventing students from installing their own apps turned out to be a bad idea, and was dropped.

Why and how did it turn out to be a bad thing to lock down the ipads?

This looks like a stupid decision.
I wasnt allowed to read a magazine or a book of my choice in school time, you have to work on the stuff the teacher is giving you or "allowing" you to read in class.
Why is this different with a more modern form of media?

The more sad part is that it is this way but it doesnt work the other way around. For school time most kids need the rule to do not do anything else in class other than that they wont learn anything (and well dont get me started on the public school system quality of education but that something different)

 

[Tiberius2000]

Sure, it's totally possible on Chromebooks too. I just think the Chromebooks or laptop in general are better for work where the iPad is better for media consumption / gaming.

I happen to be a math teacher in a large, suburban school district outside of Washington DC (160,000+ students). Over the past two years an effort to get a set of class set of 30 Chromebooks into the hands of each 3rd, 6th and 9th grade teacher. Additional sets were given to 4th and 7th grade teachers. We pay near full price: about $250. However, we get unquestioned swap outs if a Chromebook breaks.

As a dedicated 20 year Apple user, it hurts to say this: The Chromebook is a far superior educational tool at the Elementary and Middle School levels (It is up to debate with HSs needing programming features). Our English teachers no longer assign written, or even printed, essays. Google Docs are shared via Google Classrooms. I did this in my mathematics class. Students had a lab in which the gathered data, entered the data into a GoogleSheet, generated a linear regression and scatter plot, determined the R-value and described the quality of the regression. They used the regression to predict other results, then tested the accuracy of that prediction. In another project, the used piecewise-linear functions to draw on www.desmos.com. save and share the drawing to me digitally for grading. This was all digital and on a Chromebook.

In the science classrooms there are USB sensors that can be plugged into the Chromebook to gather data for Labs. They cannot plug those into an iPad.

At ~$250, with a variety of input-ports, easy of use and deployment, a keyboard, better collaboration software, it is a better educational tool than the iPad. And, unlike desktops, the only way significant threat is a kid trying to root the Chromebook to load a Linux Distro... something I doubt any 6th, 7th or 8th grader is going to do.

Neither is yet a replacement for my desktop: GoogleDocs and GoogleSheets are primitive in capacity compared to Word, Excel, LibreOffice, etc. iPads do not offer the ability to easily imbed graphs and graphics relevant to the mathematics. However, as an introduction to WordProcessors and Spreadsheets Google is "good enough," with too many other pluses. As a side note, GoogleSlides is pretty close to PowerPoint for most situations. Keynote and PowerPoint still have advantages in some higher level tasks.

 

[robgendreau]

Why and how did it turn out to be a bad thing to lock down the ipads?

This looks like a stupid decision.
I wasnt allowed to read a magazine or a book of my choice in school time, you have to work on the stuff the teacher is giving you or "allowing" you to read in class.
Why is this different with a more modern form of media?

The more sad part is that it is this way but it doesnt work the other way around. For school time most kids need the rule to do not do anything else in class other than that they wont learn anything (and well dont get me started on the public school system quality of education but that something different)

Kind of an apples and oranges comparison.

Locking down the iPad isn't necessarily just limiting what you can read.

It's different in that the iPad is a collection of software tools. You get a kid interested in doing something with say mapping but then limit her ability to download some appropriate, excellent, free mapping or nav tools. Maybe appropriate right in the classroom, but it kinda defeats the purpose of a computer beyond that. It's multipurpose, not just an ereader.

 

[Blaze4G]

I am confused. The study shows that 88% of teachers prefer laptops and 74% of students prefer laptops. Why are people here trying to justify why iPads are better for the classroom?

I see members posting how kids would prefer a touch screen because that is what they are use to. Well if they preferred a touchscreen then the study would reflect that.

Most of the members who has posted in her is not a teacher or a student. The teachers and students has first hand experience, yet people in here are assuming iPads are better based off of what exactly?

 

[kas23]

Here we have YET ANOTHER school administration that bought a bunch of expensive, complex technology, made no plans for how to use it, and dumped them into the classroom.

My son's high school (Bellarmine College Preparatory, in San Jose, CA) uses the iPad. They issue them to every student, and they are required to bring them to class.

Before they took this step, they spent a YEAR with a group of about 30 students in an in-depth evaluation of how the devices could be used in the classroom, including textbook replacement, homework creation and turn-in, student collaboration, and teacher communications. Some ideas were good-- such as tailoring projects to specific applications and providing those applications to the students-- and some were bad. Interestingly, "locking down" the iPads and preventing students from installing their own apps turned out to be a bad idea, and was dropped.

ONLY when they came up with a plan, and got buy-in from the teachers involved, did they pull the trigger and issue them to the entire school.

The results have been fantastic. When properly utilized, the iPad can transform the classroom. When it is dumped into a classroom with no thought or a plan, as it was in Los Angeles and now it appears, in Maine, it is a distraction and disruption.

Please. Another You're Holding It Wrong argument. Using this logic, maybe it would've been smarter for these school districts not to have bought iPads in the first place, and sales could continue to spiral downwards. Maybe they should never have bought into the "it's magical" hype.

 

[bennibeef]

Kind of an apples and oranges comparison.

Locking down the iPad isn't necessarily just limiting what you can read.

It's different in that the iPad is a collection of software tools. You get a kid interested in doing something with say mapping but then limit her ability to download some appropriate, excellent, free mapping or nav tools. Maybe appropriate right in the classroom, but it kinda defeats the purpose of a computer beyond that. It's multipurpose, not just an ereader.

Well I get that but is that really that important? And I kinda meant that by "in school time". The iPad can certainly be unlocked in at home situations and apps can be on there but locked in >in class< use would it be technically possible and I dont think it is right now but I hope to be proven wrong and its possible then this should be used.
Even better would be to have a lot of apps on there (lets say useful ones) and unlock and lock them related to the subject. I'm certainly happy if my kid is interested in mapping and navigation, but I hope if the subject is about a specific subject this may not be the appropriate time to have use all your tools if the thing of school is to guide and learn children which cannot themselves decide if your love to mapping is more important now and you absolutely need that freedom right now and well then we need to change the picture of school for the kids.

And unlocking apps via schedule might be a really cool feature like in math you get all the calculators of course web and yes the mapping software and make use categorisation of apps. Schools could even assume the correct categories from the appstore because the Apple Review process is good

 

[kas23]

I am confused. The study shows that 88% of teachers prefer laptops and 74% of students prefer laptops. Why are people here trying to justify why iPads are better for the classroom?

Isn't it obvious? Those students and teachers...they're wrong. And the people on the Apple fan board...they're right.

 

[nofear1az]

My sister has used the iPad in class for two years now (she's 14 now) and I think the excellent games for iPad are the main reason why the iPad is not a great idea for education. It ignited a school-wide addiction to Minecraft and YouTube and some kids are even watching Netflix in class from what I've been hearing.

I'm 21 and in my time (damn, I'm old) we weren't even allowed to use our phones anywhere in school in the first years of smartphones (2007-2009). Now they all have iPads and they're watching Netflix; seriously? Teachers back in 2007 sure were on to something.

Easy to see why Chromebooks are doing so great in the US.

oh, you're so old... I know you were joking but in my day, we didn't have cell phones, we had landlines and pay phones. Now that's old for yah.

 

[kerrikins]

well thats not awkward at all after their whole "EDUCATION" and "Perfect PC Replacement" speech

Honestly, I think this reflects more on the teachers than on the iPads. I have a friend who is a teacher and she incorporates them just fine into her classroom. They just need to have the tools alongside (keyboard, etc) to make them functional and useful.

Isn't it obvious? Those students and teachers...they're wrong. And the people on the Apple fan board...they're right.

Why the scorn, as though people on here couldn't know what they're talking about? Unless the teachers have implemented them correctly they're not going to be useful, so of course the students aren't going to want them.

 

[nofear1az]

Apple has an uphill battle with trying to establish themselves in the education sector. With tight budgets, it makes little sense for public schools to spend so much money on iPads (or MacBooks) when you can get Chromebooks for a lot less.

My kid's school system has done that and I know more school systems in my vicinity that uses Chromebooks over iPads

I totally agree but on top of that, I used a Chromebook and found it way too limiting especially lack of Java made it nearly impossible for most stuff out there. I find Linux a much better option. I do not understand why Alphabet, Inc does not make the best Linux desktop out there then maybe we might get somewhere.
[doublepost=1464041567][/doublepost]

Absolutely disagree. I've used iPads for years - since the beginning actually (iPad 3G, iPad 2 3G, iPad 4 LTE, iPad Air 2 LTE) and often it's the only "computer" with me when travelling (+ iPhone, of course). But it's only a clumsy bandaid compared to a real computer. Maybe because I'm a power user and I really can multitask and be very efficient and FAST on a Mac/PC. I could never ever achieve anything similar with iPad, at least in current state of iOS. I love to relax and use iPad, but when time is critical and I really want to be productive, using iPad is like working with one hand tied behind my back. And, of course, there are a million things I wouldn't even to begin to do (I'm a graphic designer & Adobe CC user, all the current iOS apps including from Adobe are just toys or extremely simplified versions of what I actually need).

There are things you can do on iPad, that you simply can't on Mac/PC. And there are many things you can't do on iPad. But that's not even the point - the point is that iPad is good for only single focus / simple tasks. If all you do is some ridiculously trivial things, go ahead. But efficient multitasking, fast, complicated work is simply impossible on iPad.

yah I can see your point, I still love my iPad as it's a great reading device that I like to carry around the house or travel with; however, I also feel these giant phablet phones are contributing to the lack of needing an iPad as when iPads first came out. I can easily do all I need to on a big phablet phone without picking up my iPad. When I need real work done, well there's a computer right there I can go sit at and use.

 

[Wildkraut]

The iPad Pro is a good companion to a decent computer. Few users manage to work around its iOS restrictions to archieve few "professional" work. But it will never replace a real computer that way. Mainly not because of the hardware, but because of virtual iOS limitations set by Apple.

Doesn't matter at which business type you look, it won't work, and will break your neck at the long run, if you try to fully replace a computer with the iPad Pro at it's current state.
Specially in a modern computer driven business(programmer,2d/3d artist,film,audio) scenario it won't work.

Few examples:
You can't *auto* export graphic slices, and let it output files into an structured project directory to overwrite existing files with newer versions, so it's instantly showed up in your project in an other app.

You can't keep structured files and directories of a project together. Eg to zip it all together and hand over the whole project to some client.

You can't attach an external hard drive/usb drive to the USB adapter, and copy anything you like to or from it.
You can't set default applications for email, browser or other file types.
You can't test different browser engines, since just apples webkit version is allowed to be used.
You can't use a mouse to do precise cad/vector work.
You can't use a mouse to easily select text and copy paste around.
You can't run an application twice in splitscreen.
You can't debug websites, because there is no web inspector.
You can't organize files and directories as you like since there is no access to file system(shared storage place).
You can't maintain/manage photos in a folder structure. Sorry but I don't trust Photos to Apple Photos.
You can't plug a DVD/Bluray USB Burner.
You can't add mp3 files to the music app, you still need itunes for this.
You can't install e.g stuff like MySQL and do database stuff
And much much more...

If someday Apple itself manage to code iOS by using iOS, then a iOS device might be able to replace an computer.

And not to forget, the iPad kinda destroys the inventor, tweaking sense in us with its current virtual iOS limitations. It's like the... eat what you get, and don't cook yourself, fast food nation. You will never be able to reverse engineer applications, debug, disassemble software with iOS at it's current state. No wonder they say its a toy.

If Apple doesn't come up with decent "professional" iPad Pro iOS 10 features, then the iPad Pro will probably be my last Apple device. Microsoft is becoming more and more interesting.
The Surface concept shines, just their Pen is kinda bad vs the Apple Pencil. But I say that's something easy to fix for MS, and will be fixed with the next Surface for sure. You can do everything on a surface pro, its mobile, it does not weight so much, it has touch, it has an arsenal of "mature professional" applications. Windows 10 got very usable. Many many Opensource Applications are available. You can attach anything you like to it, and do low level hardcore stuff. You can configure your own newer powerful hardware for less money than a MacPro Trashcan for heavy work. etc.

Dunno what Apples plans are, but I'm not taking the same path, if they don't change it for soon.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

The better choice overall, but some have gone with Chromebooks.

 

[sammazookie]

Apple and the Maine Department of Education have offered to swap school iPads for MacBooks at no additional cost, after it emerged that students and teachers overwhelmingly favor the use of laptops in class.

According to a report in the Lewiston-Auburn Sun Journal, schools in Auburn and other districts in Maine are set to benefit from the "Refresh" swap, following surveys of students and teachers across grades 7 through 12, which revealed that 88.5 percent of teachers and 74 percent of students preferred laptops over iPads.

An Edward Little High School senior works on her iPad during class (Image: Sun Journal)​

iPads were perceived to have poor educational value in the classroom and were often used to play games in class, while laptops allowed students better opportunities for school work. The preference gap widened even more when it came to older students, who saw laptops as better devices for coding and programming tasks.

"The results are pretty darn clear," said Auburn School Department Technology Director Peter Robinson, who conducted the survey. "The findings made the decision for us." Robinson said that three years ago, after seeing success with iPads in primary grades, he thought iPads were absolutely the right choice, but now he realized iPads have shortcomings for older students.

One teacher wrote in the survey that iPads "provide no educational function in the classroom. Students use them as toys. Word processing is near to impossible. I applaud this change."

"The iPads are largely students' gaming devices," another teacher wrote, while one called their introduction into the classroom "a disaster".

As part of the state's "Refresh" swap offer, Auburn's iPads are being returned and 1,718 laptops will be delivered in the fall to Edward Little High School and Auburn Middle School.

The state "underestimated how different an iPad is from a laptop," said Maine Learning and Technology Initiative Director Mike Muir. "Student use of iPads could have been better if the Maine Department of Education encouraged more teacher training."

The offer applies to 7th and 8th-graders' computers, which are paid for by the state, and computers for high school students that some schools pay for as part of the Learning and Technology Initiative. The initiative allows up to $254 per student for a device and teacher training to help students get the most out of technology.

The cost of the new Apple laptop will be $217 per year per student for 2016-17, and $248 per year after that. In Farmington, Mt. Blue High School's technology manager Darcy Dunphy said the state's offer is "too good to refuse", because students would be getting new laptops while saving about $140,000 over four years.

"Three years ago the Apple laptop was $273 per student a year," which meant that to stay with the Apple laptop, schools would have had to pay more, Muir said. "People chose iPads. They were within what the state would fund."

Apple has been working on overhauling its iPad in Education program since 2015. With iOS 9.3, Apple introduced a number of new features that are specifically geared towards the education market. Outlined on a new Education Preview site, education-oriented features in the iOS 9 beta include shared iPads for students, a new classroom app, an Apple School Manager feature, and an improved Managed Apple IDs function.


Article Link: Apple Offers to Replace iPads With MacBooks in Maine State Classrooms

[doublepost=1464043245][/doublepost]The blame for any issues with students wasting time on the iPad lands squarely on the school administrators and teachers. Administrators should be able to block any app that is distracting students. That's what happens at my daughters' school. They have both iPads and MacBooks, MacBooks are almost untouched for school work. Also note that the iPads have keyboards for word processing and note taking.