Apple on Blu-Ray, Touch Screen Displays, Netbooks

[thenightstalker]

Actually, if you added up the price for 2 x quadcore xeons when those were initially revised, plus the server motherboard and everything else. They were by far the best deal out of anything in the Apple lineup. Even todays prices are pretty close.

Sorry, I meant Macbook Pro. I agree, the mac pro is a good price.

 

[Adjei]

Do I need to explain the iPhone or iPod Touch to you also? A tablet mac is roughly just a bigger more useful one of these. And if you still don't get it, than just don't buy it. But don't shut the rest of us out of an Apple device because you don't get it! Many others get it and will buy it. I'm an electrical engineer, and I really got it after seeing and owning a multi-touch iPhone.

Those are entirely different products, you are probably talking about a tablet with Mac OSX which if made right now would fail.

 

[Adjei]

People are complacent with garbage quality, that's why. As far as media storage, game duplication, it's definitely not useless.

Most people can do without blu-ray, that's what I mean, it's not that much better than DVD's and for storage, there are other forms of storage out there.

 

[overcast]

But that's just it. When you purchase a Blu-Ray disc, you don't actually own it.

Physical media for consumer products are dying! The biggest market for physical media ten years ago was the music industry and today the largest music reseller in the United States is Apple. Go to Walmart, the former #1 and the shelf space dedicated to music is down to nothing.

Who says that we're locked into the current formats and compression rules. What if tomorrow someone comes up with a new format that delivers true 1080P in a file size a quarter the size of todays formats.

So has the pipes get bigger and faster, hopefully the files will get smaller and smaller.

Uh, what the hell does licensing have to with this discussion now? We're talking about formats. I'm quite aware that when I purchase a CD, Movie , Game, Book , pretty much anything, that I don't actually OWN the IP.

 

[Adjei]

How much? Expensive is a relative term.

I know it would cost a lot, look how much Apple is charging for SSD, and I meant expensive compared to others like Dell, HP, etc.

 

[overcast]

Sorry, I meant Macbook Pro. I agree, the mac pro is a good price.

Well now you are just paying for portability, convenience, engineering. You can't take all the pieces out and weigh the cost of each. You are paying for the intangible stuff, especially with laptops.

 

[Adjei]

I think $999 (the new price for the white MacBook -- Apple's "best-selling Mac ever") is low enough, having dropped a full $100 yesterday.

It used to be everyone wanted a $1000 laptop… now that they have it, they piss and moan about $200 cheaper. Sure, I guess if they would've announced that the old white MacBook was $799, I would've been very surprised and thrilled -- but you know what,... people would've been biz-nitching that they weren't getting the Aluminum MacBook for $799.

If what you wants costs $999 or $1299 or even more, then save your money until you have enough and go buy it. Or get a credit card and try to pay it off as fast as you can. But please, those people who can't see the value in the $1299 MacBook that was just announced just need to shut up.

Jobs said it best:

"The new MacBook delivers Metal enclosure, much Faster graphics, LED backlit display. To get into these features, yesterday, cost $1999 -- you'd have to step up to a MacBook Pro to get all of these features. Starting today you can get all these features for just $1299. That's $700 more affordable for these key features. Or 35% lower entry price for these features."

Honestly, what's in a name? They could've easily called the 13.3" MacBook the 13.3 MacBook Pro and no one would've thought otherwise. Same uni-body enclosure, major graphics chip increase, glass track pad, etc. Apple is essentially giving everyone a MacBook Pro, despite the name.

While I can understand people griping about lack of firewire and the glossy screen, for the life of me, I don't get everyone all bunched up in the panty area about $200. The new technologies they're offering are certainly worth the couple extra bones you're paying for the new $1299 version vs the $1099 you pay for the white thing.

Grow up. Save your money. Quit complaining. These new machines are awesome.

Don't waste your time, if it had been 799, they would have asked why isn't it 499 because they can get a Dell for 400 bucks. They always need to find a way to complain.

 

[thenightstalker]

Well now you are just paying for portability, convenience, engineering. You can't take all the pieces out and weigh the cost of each. You are paying for the intangible stuff, especially with laptops.

ANY way you slice it for the macbook pro its a raping. Only 2 gb of ram? You do weigh the cost, they have 50% less parts now so why the hell is it the almost the same hardware for the same price? Come on now.

 

[Adjei]

that is just ridiculous. You can backup 50GB of data on one disc. and do it economically!

also, many of us enjoy HD content on BD discs. I am open as anyone else is to a digital future. but there is a definite place for Blu-Ray on Apple products.

Let the consumers have options! Macintosh's are supposed to be versatile and dynamic, why handicap a valued format to any???

let people embrace physical media AND digital downloads. there shouldn't be only one option.

Options, what's the use of options, if people aren't willing to pay to upgrade to that option, blu-ray is not catching on as they hoped, which have lead the likes of Samsung who sit on the Blu-ray board to say it will be dead in 5 years. Digital download is the future, the general population is satisified with dvd's until digital downloads take over.

 

[overcast]

Most people can do without blu-ray, that's what I mean, it's not that much better than DVD's and for storage, there are other forms of storage out there.

Ok, so you're argument when from it being pointless, to being most people can do without it. I guarantee I probably think most things in your life are pointless.
You're right, EVERYONE can do without luxuries. That's why they are called luxuries. Well guess what I can't do without it, I want the absolute best quality representation in film for the movie room I've spent tens of thousands of dollars on. Yes it is much better than DVD and what other forms of storage can you fit up to 200+GB of data on, that is as convenient and portable as a tiny disc.

You're wrong, stop arguing.

 

[spacevator]

Dear Apple,

Since you obviously can't be bothered to offer anything remotely close to a good value, I'll be moving to the PC realm for my laptop. I can't believe I actually waited all year anticipating a major Apple laptop update only to be utterly disappointed in your latest offerings.

Netbooks are a nascent market and that's why you can't be bothered to jump in? I guess the pioneering apple of old is long gone.


I'll be back on the PC side. If you decide to someday release oh, say, a tablet, netbook or a competitively priced notebook, I'll be happy to come take a peek then.

Hasta luego,
Dan

Well put! I feel your pain. Get with it fanboys. Apple is slipping here big time. This is constructive criticism.

 

[Adjei]

I want you to show me how it is marginal improvement. I can GUARANTEE you have never sat down and compared either. And I'm not talking about on your 20" LCD display and a pair of BOSE speakers.

1080 is LEAPS and bounds over 480. 6 times the resolution!
The new lossless audio formats are an even bigger difference, seriously.

I'm talking about blu-ray on a 13, 15, or 17 inch laptop. On a big screen tv it's a different story.

 

[editguy]

Strange, I have a DV-cam right next to me and it has an USB-connection....

You can't capture video through that USB connection, and even if you could no quality NLE supports USB capture.

 

[overcast]

ANY way you slice it for the macbook pro its a raping. Only 2 gb of ram? You do weigh the cost, they have 50% less parts now so why the hell is it the almost the same hardware for the same price? Come on now.

Laptops are expensive, if you spec out something of comparable specs on Dells website, you will find comparable prices. And certainly not in that small of a form factor, aluminum and as elegantly designed. You're also paying for OSX, iLife and it's integration with everything else.

 

[Adjei]

Because you and your peers enjoy overpaying for low quality.

$20-25 Blu-Ray disc of the same movie in DVD should be $3-5 dollars right? Considering it's 6 times less resolution.

No I don't want to pay 30 dollars for a blu-ray disc when I can get a dvd disc for 20 dollars when the improvement for me watching on laptop is not that great.

 

[overcast]

I'm talking about blu-ray on a 13, 15, or 17 inch laptop. On a big screen tv it's a different story.

And now we come full circle back to storage. Blu-Ray is NEEDED for massive amounts of storage in a small portable disc.

 

[overcast]

No I don't want to pay 30 dollars for a blu-ray disc when I can get a dvd disc for 20 dollars when the improvement for me watching on laptop is not that great.

I can't follow your path of logic anymore. Now we've jumped to 30 dollars and only playing movies on the laptop.

 

[editguy]

But... isn't DV "digital video"? I can't imagine a tape can store more data than a hard drive. Maybe it's a bandwidth thing then... you can just make the tape faster for higher quality. And all video editing apps I know have to convert DV into their own (compressed) format so you can work with it. So you might as well record with efficient compression (even RED cameras do it) on the camera itself.

I had a Sanyo HD1000 and an HD700 not too long ago. The USB was indeed slow to transfer stuff, but not unbearable, still faster than realtime. But the compression really showed when you had noise (high ISO setting) or had any kind of shaking or panning in your video (i.e. everything not shot on a tripod). The HD1010 is supposed to have way better compression but the very bad auto-focus and the lack of wide-angle zoom (necessary for anything indoors) didn't change it seems. 720p with 60 fps is awesome though, you really feel the difference between 30 and 60 frames per second. Those small cameras don't have the optics to for sharop 1080i/p footage anyway. The bigger Sonys and Panasonics might.

Even if they were the same quality, no quality NLE (Non Linear Editor) captures through USB. Files from a hard disk drive camera have to be captured with proprietary software and then converted for use in the NLE. When they are captured through firewire inside the NLE they are ready for editing without conversion. All quality consumer or prosumer camcorders use firewire. It is the defacto standard. HDD and DVD camcorders are consumer junk for moms a dads that take video at Christmas and birthdays that will never be edited and no one wants to watch. Flash camcorders are coming into play but they are not widely supported in editors.

 

[puffnstuff]

I honestly don't understand all the fuss about tablets (as opposed to touch screen laptops or desktops, which are non-starters). The first thing I would have to do with a tablet is plug a keyboard in. I don't get their purpose at all.

Could a tablet-Mac-wanting person explain it to me?

A lot of students and designers use them. Problem is a lot of students and designers are mac users. So some rather get a macbook and plug a wacom into it (me) or use the macbook and type notes on. Others just suck it up and buy the pc tablet.

I'm an interactive media student. It would be great to have a light weight macbook tablet with the wacom technology to draw on and touch up my work.

Some Animators/animation students use them to design things.

Lots of students in courses where there are a lot of notes have them to use this software

I don't think a tablet would fail like you guys keep saying because Apple is geared towards the market that would use them.

edit: If skim through here you will see tons of ways people want to use them. From medical students to filmmakers.

 

[Quillz]

I'd like to think that Apple are holding one more suprise that when they redesign the 17" MBP, it'll include a blu-ray drive as the display will support the full 1080 video resolution. And that they give me a matte display option

I'm not doubting that the 17'' MacBook Pro model will ultimately receive the new design, but I am doubting that it will include either a Blu-ray drive or a matte display. I have a strange suspicion that the truly new 17'' MacBook Pro will be just that... A MacBook Pro with a 17'' display.

And by Apple ignoring the 17'' with the launch of the new 13.3'' MacBook and 15'' MacBook Pro, it leads me to believe that the 17'' is not all that popular and may even be discontinued outright. Most people, I think, who want a 17'' notebook will just end up buying a more powerful and comparably priced desktop.

 

[thenightstalker]

Laptops are expensive, if you spec out something of comparable specs on Dells website, you will find comparable prices. And certainly not in that small of a form factor, aluminum and as elegantly designed. You're also paying for OSX, iLife and it's integration with everything else.

I love when people dont know what their talking about. You can get a dell with blu-ray for much cheaper. With 4 gb of ram. Hell you can get a sony with blur-ray for cheaper, and those are nice machines. You cannot argue that you cant find a dell or sony for cheaper, and yes the sony IS small form factor and elegant.

 

[kaiwai]

It is all relative. I paid over NZ$800 for my first CD Reader (in NZ). You need people to purchase them at the initial prices in order to get them cheaper later. And if you are that worried about expensive items, why look at Apple products?

I don't care if they offer it as an option, but I do care if they ram it down my throat to the point that it elevates the price too high.

Why look at Apple products? because Windows is so crap. Mac's are the only viable alternative to Windows.

PS> Linux/OpenSource doesn't count - it sucks, and it sucks hard. A group of masturbating monkeys could come up with better applications than GIMP, Sodipodi, and all the other flawed half baked crap that is out there.

 

[overcast]

I love when people dont know what their talking about. You can get a dell with blu-ray for much cheaper. With 4 gb of ram. Hell you can get a sony with blur-ray for cheaper, and those are nice machines. You cannot argue that you cant find a dell or sony for cheaper, and yes the sony IS small form factor and elegant.

Except, none of them run OSX except for the Apple ones. So it kind of makes both of are arguments pointless.

 

[whatever]

Yes it is much better than DVD and what other forms of storage can you fit up to 200+GB of data on, that is as convenient and portable as a tiny disc.

You're wrong, stop arguing.

Oh so are you telling me that today I can buy a Blu-Ray burner and copy 200GB of data on to it. This is available....

Today I can buy 32GB flash thumb drive which will plug into any computer and R/W data. For under $100.00.

By the time I can do that with a Blu-Ray disc, I'll be able to do more with Flash Thumb drive.... And it will still be cheaper and again it's R/W many not R/W once.

Does anyone remember the old Apple Superdrive? The one that ran DVD-RAMs. Or does anyone have piles of Zip disks which are now obsolete. Removing the hardware (such as the CD, DVD, Blu-Ray, Zip drive) is the safest way forward.

 

[eidrunner247]

Most people can do without blu-ray, that's what I mean, it's not that much better than DVD's and for storage, there are other forms of storage out there.

That's true - like external hard drives, etc. Sooner or later they'll adopt it.