Apple Ordered to Pay Optis Wireless $300 Million in Second LTE Patent Trial

[Phil77354]

I still don't understand how a company with no actual operations and don't sell anything can be found to be damaged... what a mad world.

If Optis releases a one limited edition item that uses the patent, would people stop calling them a patent troll?

If you invented something, you'd see it differently. Just because you don't make a product doesn't mean you shouldn't have rights to something you create.

Even if the current patent holder did not invent what the patent covers, as long as they acquired the patent legally from another party, the patent should not be infringed upon by a third party. Some folks may disagree but that is the current law and Apple knows damn well.

It seems to me that Optis (and the like) simply buy up patents, it is not clear if they have any technical staff themselves or simply purchase these patents from others, and then they look for opportunities to either extort patent fees or sue.

Our legal / patent system provides this opportunity for them and it is a distortion of what patents are intended for, which is to protect the rights of those who actually come up with these ideas in the first place, i.e. the inventors, engineers and scientists that innovate and then document their innovations via our patent system.

In these cases it has devolved to a battle of the lawyers. The patent originators are no longer benefiting from their patents.

They are essentially a company that invests in acquiring patents for the sole purpose of doing exactly what they are doing here, and our legal system rewards them for doing so.

 

[ManDark]

I like the Explanation of "Makosuke" and in that case it makes sence, even if Optis was a Patent troll. What i don't understand, and i have nowhere read about this, is that, this case means that "4G LTE" technology is licensed by the Optis Wireless ?
Well if so then everyone else in the "Mobile Industry" is paying Optis for this patent ? Well if yes then we have a BIG Problem, because since im Aware (i could be wrong) nowdays we have only on Manufacturer which is making 3G/4G/LTE/5G Modems and that is Quallcom.(Huawey maybe and Erricson too ?) So how can Quallcom sell modems that use the Optis technology and not paying for the patent ?

I would like to get back to "Makosuke" explanation, but in this case by Extension we have a Copmany D which has bought a Product from Company B but the Company C is suing Company D ? Why and why only Apple ? Why not everyone Else like Samsung, LG, Xiaomi, Huawei etc.

Further, Apple bought from intel the whole Modem department with a lot of patents, and also got a settlment with quallcom on behalf of the Royalties payed for just for the Modem which is he using, so this doesen't make for me any sence, but we will se how this develops further.

Im not holding to anyone just want to know all the facts.

 

[H2SO4]

I still don't understand how a company with no actual operations and don't sell anything can be found to be damaged... what a mad world.

How different is that from a company that has patents that it has no intention of using?
Seriously, so if I have a company that sells fitness equipment and own a wireless comms patent, is that any different from a company in the wireless comms business holding a relevant patent that it has no plans to use?

 

[Armada2]

I think Why only Apple? because once they win against Apple (big fish) the rest will automatically follow and lose their battles as one cant be a win and the rest they lose it wouldn't make sense so Apple is the bigger catch to use the resources against the others?

The thing is if company C (Optis) bought patents from company say E (a company who are not around anymore maybe or decide to give away their patents) to use against D (Apple etc) if Company C loses then they become useless patents then C got ripped off from company E?

 

[PlayUltimate]

Apple patents lots of stuff they never going to use, just fore the purpose no one else can. Because it (the patent) represents value and it will defend it with all measures possible, sometimes just to keep competition out.

All companies patent things that they think they might use or need someday. The fact that they don't should not imply that that was the plan. However, due to the patent rules that exist and the actions of patent trolls, there is a strong motivation to file patents to protect future innovations.
Some of the lawsuits used very loose relationships to current patents. And many of them are just an idea with little description of how to implement. It is after a business figures out the implementation, a business use case, and find profits that the lawsuits are filed.

 

[H2SO4]

They wouldn't be able to lol because 1. they would have to spend on R&D so spend more money than they can, 2. negotiate with other companies either reasonable rates, or exchange patents but if your patents are so generic etc then you have no leg to stand on.

You don't really know that at all do you............

I think Why only Apple? because once they win against Apple (big fish) the rest will automatically follow and lose their battles as one cant be a win and the rest they lose it wouldn't make sense so Apple is the bigger catch to use the resources against the others?

The thing is if company C (Optis) bought patents from company say E (a company who are not around anymore maybe or decide to give away their patents) to use against D (Apple etc) if Company C loses then they become useless patents then C got ripped off from company E?

No not at all. Once a lawyer comes up with a good enough reason then things change, regardless of what happened to who in the past.

I like the Explanation of "Makosuke" and in that case it makes sence, even if Optis was a Patent troll. What i don't understand, and i have nowhere read about this, is that, this case means that "4G LTE" technology is licensed by the Optis Wireless ?
Well if so then everyone else in the "Mobile Industry" is paying Optis for this patent ? Well if yes then we have a BIG Problem, because since im Aware (i could be wrong) nowdays we have only on Manufacturer which is making 3G/4G/LTE/5G Modems and that is Quallcom.(Huawey maybe and Erricson too ?) So how can Quallcom sell modems that use the Optis technology and not paying for the patent ?

I would like to get back to "Makosuke" explanation, but in this case by Extension we have a Copmany D which has bought a Product from Company B but the Company C is suing Company D ? Why and why only Apple ? Why not everyone Else like Samsung, LG, Xiaomi, Huawei etc.

Further, Apple bought from intel the whole Modem department with a lot of patents, and also got a settlment with quallcom on behalf of the Royalties payed for just for the Modem which is he using, so this doesen't make for me any sence, but we will se how this develops further.

Im not holding to anyone just want to know all the facts.

Do you know for a fact that Qualcomm aren't paying to license patents from Optis? If they are does it have to be published?

 

[jlc1978]

ISince this is (I think?) a FRAND patent, it's part of a standard so companies are expected to be offered a fair and non-discriminatory licensing fee to use it, but if they don't pay when everybody else did, then they're getting an unfair advantage. In this case something to do with the implementation of LTE, which in theory other companies using the same technology are paying. Being patent trolls, who knows--it's totally possible that they only sue the big targets in Payday District, Texas, and completely ignore everybody else.

It seems the issue was the FRAND licensing terms and wether the award was fair as a result, because of how the issue was handled in the first case.

My issue with FRAND is really isn't well defined as to what is "fair and reasonable." Absent regulatory guidance it's up to companies and ultimately courts to decide.

It would seem wise for companies to attack the patent itself to get it invalidated or use their portfolios in a concentrated attack against patent trolls.

Extracting too much cash was my point, for things like not having a hole inside the AirTags for instance just so that they can extract even more money, or extortionate RAM prices, you can't change RAM later on.

You have a choice - buy or don't buy. If you don't like Apple's prices and policies, vote with your wallet.

 

[imnotarobot]

I am not against legit patent disputes, I am against East Texas juries run as a for profit business. Run this trial anywhere else in the country and patent trolls will lose most of these cases. Suing someone for a patent dispute should be assigned randomly all over the country, or at least in the state where the defending company is located; you should not be able to choose where to file. Virtually every patent troll sues in East Texas.

 

[calstanford]

We are all paying for these US ******** patent laws with higher and higher iPhone prices.

 

[Kabeyun]

PanOptis and its sister companies, Optis Wireless Technology, Optis Cellular Technology, Unwired Planet, and Unwired Planet International, are non-practicing entities that hold patents and generate revenue through patent litigation

I surmised this as soon as I saw the proceeding was in Texas, default home of patent troll lawyers.

If Optis releases a one limited edition item that uses the patent, would people stop calling them a patent troll?

On that day, I might. Shall we hold our collective breath?

If you invented something, you'd see it differently. Just because you don't make a product doesn't mean you shouldn't have rights to something you create.

How does this apply here?

 

[rp100]

Overall, the patent system works: specifically, it rewards innovation by allowing patent holders to gain profit from their work without fear or discouragement of someone else copying or “stealing” their innovations. But, the reality is that we live in an imperfect world and some people exploit or abuse the system to the detriment of others. Consider other areas prone to abuse: pharmaceuticals, weapons, finances, technology, transportation, energy. Patent abuse looks like child’s play when you consider the known corruption in those areas.

Inevitably a scumbag will ruin an otherwise good system/market - the goal is for the system to self-correct or have a process in place to improve the rules and boundaries without punishing or discouraging those who play by the (heretofore unstated) rules. The cheaters/abusers will never go away, EVER, so if people are discouraged from participating (they believe someone else will steal and profit from their work), the scumbags will have no competition. And with no competition, consumers will face rising prices with no improvements or innovation.

 

[Art Mark]

Not paying royalties for the patented technologies you use is a form of damage.

There’s a reason these troll companies always sue in Texas…backwards place. Backwards thinking. It’s a shakedown. That is all it is.

 

[no_idea]

This one judge (Rodney Gilstrap) seems to rule on a ton of apple patents. Might as well call him the grim reaper.

 

[Expos of 1969]

There’s a reason these troll companies always sue in Texas…backwards place. Backwards thinking. It’s a shakedown. That is all it is.

Perhaps they should alter things so patent law only falls under a federal statute. I am neither a US politician nor lawyer but just a thought...

 

[steve09090]

It all comes down to demanding unreasonable $’s for the use of a patent. It's a form of monopoly and one that is likely to be found unreasonable. I hope the damages are far far less than what they were given the first time. Patent Trolls are blood sucking vampires

 

[Expos of 1969]

It all comes down to demanding unreasonable $’s for the use of a patent. It's a form of monopoly and one that is likely to be found unreasonable. I hope the damages are far far less than what they were given the first time. Patent Trolls are blood sucking vampires

So many statements saying basically the same. What lobbying and pressure is occurring in the US to change the system? Who are the people and organisations that must be loving the current system and why do they have so much power over those who can change the system?

 

[Glideslope]

Yup, Texas again. Let Mexico have it back. It's only fair after we stole it from them.

 

[jimbobb24]

I still don't understand how a company with no actual operations and don't sell anything can be found to be damaged... what a mad world.

Foregone license fees.

US needs to fix this. Politicians too busy spending money to fix real stuff.

 

[johnnygee]

The Apple Money Train just arrived on Track No. 9.🤣

 

[Mick-Mac]

The moment I read "a Texas jury has ruled" I knew this was yet another one of those vile patent troll cases. Those patent cases are all tried in a specific Texas town/county that specializes in these things. It's a local cottage industry there.

 

[Mousse]

If Optis releases a one limited edition item that uses the patent, would people stop calling them a patent troll?

I would. It's one thing to have an idea, it's whole another animal to make a functional copy in the real world. Patents should only be awared if you come up with a working demonstration, not just a blue print.
Wyle E. Coyote fans knows all about works in theory but doesn't work in practice.

 

[pooryou]

Screw this nonsense, Apple should refuse to pay and simply stop doing business in Texas.

 

[mikethemartian]

I still don't understand how a company with no actual operations and don't sell anything can be found to be damaged... what a mad world.

Then you don’t understand the concept of intellectual property.

 

[nouvejetzt]

Apple does not suffer at all paying for this. Is not even Apple that pays. But the insurance they have for lawsuits as tons of big companies (and small ones) have.

That trillion dollar is intact 😃!

 

[ridddder55]

My question is then if Apple pays for this patent, then how many other cell phones also pay. This can't just apply to Apple, there has to be lots of other entitles to sue as well.