Apple Orders M5 Chips From TSMC Ahead of Late 2025 Production

[coolfactor]

I'd love to hear if and how Apple engineers are directly involved in advancing these technologies, rather than Apple simply being a consumer of them.

Do we know if TSMC works collaboratively with Apple and other companies?

Back in the PowerPC days, Apple worked with Motorola. Remember the Vector Velocity Engine?

 

[coolfactor]

Apple. Stop putting the damn chips in new iPads. It's overkill and the Macs need it infinitely more.

What is your reasoning? That there's a shortage of supply for Macs?

 

[Bodhitree]

“Apple's decision to forgo TSMC's more advanced 2nm process for the M5 chip is believed to be primarily due to cost considerations.”

Translated: Apple decided not to pay for TSMC’s production lines to all be upgraded to ASML’s latest chip manufacturing machines at 500m dollars a throw.

 

[BotchQue]

Two questions I would have:
1. Would the "proposed" 40% tariff on Chinese goods also apply to Taiwanese goods? and
2. By pre-ordering, would Apple avoid those tariffs, if they were enacted?

(trying really hard to keep this non-political... ).

 

[Chuckeee]

2. By pre-ordering, would Apple avoid those tariffs, if they were enacted?

I believe that for physical goods (vs services) tariffs are assessed (determined & charged) when the goods are physically received at the U.S. port of entry. So pre-ordering is NOT a means to avoid tariffs.

 

[MacHeritage]

Yearly updates of Macs is a bit too much.

Absolutely disagree! I actually liked it better when each Mac product line was updated every 6-10 months back in the early 2000's. Everything was always fresh and the fastest it could be. Apple was on a role, focused solely on the Mac, which was their bread and butter at the time.

2 examples:
The whole Titanium PowerBook series lasted only around 2 years for 4 models introduced (Jan 2001-November 2002).
The Power Mac G4 throughout its whole life was even shorter most of the time with 6-8 months being the norm.

 

[jecowa]

So, even though N3P entered mass productions 2024 H2, since the M5 was originally planned for N2, M5 will still be released on the later timetable as if it was actually manufactured on the N2 process.

Not only will the M5 not be manufactured on the latest and greatest process, but it will also not be the first on the process that it is using. “The Ultimate Computer” should hopefully be worth the wait, though.

 

[jecowa]

I'd be nice if they actually updated *all* the computers though... The Mac Studio & Mac Pro are is still using the M2... will they get the M5? Or or the M4? (Or the M3?)

Studio and Pro will not get M3. M3 is not good at the high-end. The M3 Pro is arguably a downgrade over the M2 Pro. I expect an M4 Ultra to be released for the Mac Studio and maybe Mac Pro eventually.

It’s normal for the higher end chips to come out after the lower end chips. Intel does the same with their Xeon chips coming out after their consumer chips. Not sure why; maybe it’s easier to work the kinks out of the lower-end chips before moving onto the premium chips.

 

[svish]

Expecting the M5 to debut at WWDC 2025. Don't know what product will be getting it first. Maybe it will be the iPad Pro. Then as usual the Pro MacBooks will be announced in October, followed by the Air in early 2026.

 

[segfaultdotorg]

Wow, might as well throw your M4 devices in the landfill!

 

[picpicmac]

Not only will the M5 not be manufactured on the latest and greatest process, but it will also not be the first on the process that it is using.

Because it is not clear that TSMC can deliver what they promised, on time, without greatly increasing prices.

So Apple, like any good project engineer, goes about minimizing uncertainty.

For all those addicted to a constant stream of new toys, the progress in microprocessors is slowing again. The future is murky, the physics of the universe is against perpetual progress, and geopolitics may put a squash on many a geek's hot dream.

 

[9081094]

Apple. Stop putting the damn chips in new iPads. It's overkill and the Macs need it infinitely more.

I’m with you. Or better: Apple make iPadOS more capable and a truly worthy OS.

 

[9081094]

Apple is surely feeling the pressure of Qualcomm. I’m curious if Apple is able to take back the speedcrown.

 

[9081094]

I'd love to hear if and how Apple engineers are directly involved in advancing these technologies, rather than Apple simply being a consumer of them.

Do we know if TSMC works collaboratively with Apple and other companies?

Back in the PowerPC days, Apple worked with Motorola. Remember the Vector Velocity Engine?

TSMC is closely working with all partners that let TSMC produce their chips. Apple’s biggest competitor Qualcomm is too, so are many others.

TSMC has the most advanced production facility in the world and is pushing out others who can’t keep up.

 

[frogleader12]

Apple is surely feeling the pressure of Qualcomm. I’m curious if Apple is able to take back the speedcrown.

only in phones

laptops they are miles ahead

 

[9081094]

only in phones

laptops they are miles ahead

Maybe they’re…but not for long I’m afraid.

 

[uczcret]

Apple is surely feeling the pressure of Qualcomm. I’m curious if Apple is able to take back the speedcrown.

Did they lose it? Has Qualcomm come out with SOCs faster and more powerful than the M4 Max?

 

[uczcret]

So, even though N3P entered mass productions 2024 H2, since the M5 was originally planned for N2, M5 will still be released on the later timetable as if it was actually manufactured on the N2 process.

Not only will the M5 not be manufactured on the latest and greatest process, but it will also not be the first on the process that it is using. “The Ultimate Computer” should hopefully be worth the wait, though.

Nvidia, AMD and Intel all cancelled their pre-booked manufacturing capacity for first gen 3nm due to cost. I seriously doubt they're going to spring for 2nm if Apple won't.

 

[9081094]

Did they lose it? Has Qualcomm come out with SOCs faster and more powerful than the M4 Max?

Not yet, but Qualcomm just released its first risk chip for laptops and surprised everyone with their capabilities. Even outperforming the M3 on many aspects. Wait for the second generation and be surprised 😉

 

[uczcret]

Not yet, but Qualcomm just released its first risk chip for laptops and surprised everyone with their capabilities. Even outperforming the M3 on many aspects. Wait for the second generation and be surprised 😉

More than happy to be surprised. The more competition the better for us consumers. Hopefully, it keeps Apple from going down the complacent route a la Intel.

 

[Lucasof]

Yearly updates of Macs is a bit too much.

agree I find 3 years are better fit, or at min 2...

 

[cpnotebook80]

So the performance jump of the M5 series over the M4 series is not what has been reported to be minor but “significant “?

I am more interested in the GPU performance increase than anything at lower power consumption. The current roster of chips even at base are are doing remarkably well in holding their own like the m3, m4 base levels but would have liked to see more GPU power at the base.

 

[Codeseven]

TSMC is closely working with all partners that let TSMC produce their chips. Apple’s biggest competitor Qualcomm is too, so are many others.

TSMC has the most advanced production facility in the world and is pushing out others who can’t keep up.

Didn’t Intel get the jump on everyone else by buying up and now installing the latest gen chip making technology High NA UEV? Also, with the Nationalistic push away from China and to bring manufacturing securely back to the USA isn’t Intel positioned to become the new chosen one for American chips and not a vulnerable (and perhaps soon to be lagging behind) TSMC? It may well take a couple of years for Intel to get up to speed pumping out the new tech chips but the reported Billions being pumped into it by the US Government may speed that up.

 

[NT1440]

Didn’t Intel get the jump on everyone else by buying up and now installing the latest gen chip making technology High NA UEV? Also, with the Nationalistic push away from China and to bring manufacturing securely back to the USA isn’t Intel positioned to become the new chosen one for American chips and not a vulnerable (and perhaps soon to be lagging behind) TSMC? It may well take a couple of years for Intel to get up to speed pumping out the new tech chips but the reported Billions being pumped into it by the US Government may speed that up.

Buying a high NA EUV means they’re 2ish years from being able to do any type of volume production on it. I don’t think the thing is even assembled yet.

TSMC has also elected to get one (finally), which means late next year they’ll take delivery.

I think Intel is doing great things with backplane power delivery, but TSMC is also innovating as well in the packaging front.

We’re not going to see a direct competition in the low power high performance space between these two for several years at least.

 

[DownUnderDan]

Umm so I guess I can wait until M5 releases to upgrade my M1 iPad Pro, which unfortunately has insufficient CPU and GPU performance for some of the games I play.
(Overheat and massive slowdown after just some 10 min playing)

The M5 should overheat and shutdown up to 47 percent faster.