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apple ownership

who owns APPL?

so other than Michael Dell, notice that the same institutions own Apple and Dell!
What do you think of the likelyhood of either company seriously trying to score points off the other? Or is it a no lose scenario for the owners? Talk about betting both ways, or keeping your bases covered?
As long as those fund managers are happy,
 
It depends

Ownership of both DELL and AAPL by similar institutions is not as sinister as it may seem. Vanguard, for instance, probably holds both DELL and AAPL in its Vanguard 500 Index (since both Dell and Apple are part of the index) and may hold DELL and/or AAPL in another fund. Fidelity might hold one or both stocks in their aggressive growth or technology funds, etc.

Mutual fund managers typically don't buy stocks like it's a horse race (i.e. there can only be one winner). As long as both DELL and AAPL earn an adequate risk-adjusted return above their weighted average cost of capital (WACC), then both stocks should rise and the mutual fund holders will benefit accordingly.
 
Mutual funds are set up to be stocks of similar values that are grouped together into one "Mutual Fund". Investors, ie people who buy stock, can have several mutual funds that could possibly contain competeting stocks. However, the benefit of Mutual funds is that some stocks will increase, while other decrease. Usually Mutual funds are set up to gain as much profit as possible, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are Mutual funds out there that have Microsoft, and Apple, or Nintendo and Sony stocks all in the same mutual fund. The stocks do appear to be owned by all those corporations listed up there, but in actuality it's owned by thousands of people who have invested in Mutual funds with those corparations. Pretty cool when you think about it.
 
Re: It depends

Originally posted by macktheknife
Ownership of both DELL and AAPL by similar institutions is not as sinister as it may seem. Vanguard, for instance, probably holds both DELL and AAPL in its Vanguard 500 Index (since both Dell and Apple are part of the index) and may hold DELL and/or AAPL in another fund. Fidelity might hold one or both stocks in their aggressive growth or technology funds, etc.

Mutual fund managers typically don't buy stocks like it's a horse race (i.e. there can only be one winner). As long as both DELL and AAPL earn an adequate risk-adjusted return above their weighted average cost of capital (WACC), then both stocks should rise and the mutual fund holders will benefit accordingly.
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wow, you know your stuff! are iras still good or are they passe these days?
 
IRAs

jethatfield: IRAs are merely tax-sheltered retirement vehicles. If you own a Roth IRA for instance, you can put up to $3,000 into almost anything (stocks, bonds, mutual funds, gold, options, etc.) per year (the limit will be raised in 2004). You can't deduct the $3,000 from your taxable income like a Traditional IRA, but the money will grow tax-free, and when you withdraw it at the age of 65 or so, you won't have to pay a single cent. So I guess what you do with an IRA depends on how you invest it.

I urge everyone who is not saving any of their income for their retirement to strongly consider opening an IRA or set some cash aside through your 401(k) at work. If you are below the age of 40, take note: Social Security will probably not provide enough of a cushion for retirement by the time you retire. If you don't have enough saved up and you don't have a pension, you will have to live the rest of your life in poverty or keep working through the ripe-old age of 75.

You can learn more at: http://money.cnn.com/pf/101/

Although I am not a financial advisor (I am a consultant), I'd be very happy to answer any question you may have on saving for retirement or investment. I cannot tell you what stocks or funds will make you rich or where the market will go, but I will try my best to answer any general questions or at least point you in the right direction.

After all, I want my fellow Mac-users to spend their golden years enjoying their PowerMac G65 . . .

;)
 
life goes fast even though it seems tedious at times but working to age 55 is enough for me as is working 40 hours a week

i am not a super-being and value my free time the most...i have worked part or full time for 25 years and only plan to work another 15 years...tops

social security and a small ira will do for me since i live cheaply as does my wife

she is 46 and will end her traditional rat race career one day

having a small retired job to keep from getting bored is an ok option for me like working in a gift shop or hardware store or something 20 hours a week from age 55 into my 60s

but the full on career, stress, competition, and crap will stop for me in another 15 years

40 total years of always trying to better myself and be a career entrepreneur certainly can take its toll and when i hear of people over 55 changing careers, going back to school, or taking out five year leases on a business, it makes me want to collapse

being close to 40 is harder physically than i had imagined and my energy level, once thought to be endless when i was 20, is just not there anymore

oh well, that is life and aging;)
 
Well, I'm gonna give you a generic answer

jethatfield: Contact a mutual fund company (I recommend Vanguard, TIAA-CREF, or T. Rowe Price), and tell them that you are interested in opening a ROTH IRA account. BTW, I have my funds invested in each company, and I do not work for or have any other associations with these companies.

It sounds like you are nearing 40, so you will have another 15 or so years left for your money to grow. Set up some automatic investment plan where you can put up to $250 a month ($3,000 / 12 months) into your account. Put about 80% of your money in a stock mutual fund like Vanguard Total Market Index Fund (VTSMX) or Vanguard 500 (VFINX). Put the other 20% in a bond fund like TIAA-CREF Bond Plus (VIPBX) or Vanguard Total Bond Index (VBMFX). You can tinker with your stock allocation with small-cap, value, international, etc. type of funds, but this should get you started just fine. The most important thing about choosing a fund isn't its past performance per se--it's the fund's expense ratio that matters. As Nobel Prize winner William Sharpe noted, how much the mutual fund company will charge you is the *only* you can be sure of.

Remember that Social Security will send you about $700 per month. If you live in the Bay Area and you rent, that'll pay for half of your rent.

Anyhow, please protect yourself from a life of poverty by doing what you can to save. You can check out "Get a Financial Life" by Beth Kobliner. It's a book on personal financial management written for people in their 20s, but if you haven't already learned the book's lesson, you need to read it.
 
can someone find out how much % of apple does m$ own these days...

i'd be interested to know... hopefully it's close to 0 but can someone confirm that plz?
 
good advice

mack's advice is spot on. i differ on how to weight a portfolio of stocks verses bonds and such but thats a personal choice.

and i'll reiterate his point about checking the fees involved with mutual funds-very similar funds can have BIG differences in annual expenses and loads(what they charge you to purchase and sell the fund)--look for the fund's 12b-1 section. my wife's original financial advisor put her into funds that she( the advisor) made the most commission on...3 of the funds contained basically the exact same stock mixes-not much diversification going on there! so do your own research-its actually fun in a geeky sort of way.

and the longer you can put off drawing $$ from your IRA's the better--i think you have to start taking $$ out at 69.5 years. and waiting to take SS as long as you can will increase the monthly payments( though they still SUCK considering how much we all pay into SS...) SS is merely a stop gap payment--unfortunately many people believe it to be a retirement account, ...and yes, you're taxed on SS income...ironic isn't it?

:eek:
 
this is a Mac forum right?

M$ put 175M into Apple 5 years ago, and sold it awhile ago according to another poster, they didn't appear on the Bloomberg list that was posted, which went down to less than 1%, I think so if it is still in then it is a pretty small holding. And the gif seems to have been removed . . . I wonder why?

So, like, a bunch of people with some extra cash get together, and like, form a club, and buy stocks, like apple or dell or some railway and they have meetings and vote on what to buy? Sounds cool!
Give me a break . . . more like insurance companies and investment banks etc. set them up and sell them to investors, how much say do they have except to sell out or sue? Right I thought so. and everybody gets a cut, and that is fine by me as long as we are making money.

I was interested in the thread because maybe we would find out if anyone with a sizeable stake had an interest in Macs and computing being Insanely Great, as well as making money. Alas it appears it is all fund managers, who must be disinterested in the long term future of Macs may only be interested in investing in Apple as a small hedge against their other holdings.

Whatever
 
Mac users vs. Apple investors

Well, there is an inherent conflict between Mac customers who want better and faster Macs and Apple investors who want bigger and faster-growing profits. In business jargon, this is known as "agency cost."

Anyhow, Apple has more or less satisfied both parties for now by earning profit margins that are higher than the industry average and turning out great products (at least in the eyes of us Mac users) that are better than the Wintel world.

I'll check to see if Apple owns any % of Microsoft when I get to work (in about 1/2 and hour). I doubt that it'll be any sizable share, but it's worth a look.

BTW, my asset allocation is 95% stocks and 5% bonds (I'm only 24, so I can take the risk).
 
Re: Well, I'm gonna give you a generic answer

Originally posted by macktheknife


Anyhow, please protect yourself from a life of poverty by doing what you can to save. You can check out "Get a Financial Life" by Beth Kobliner. It's a book on personal financial management written for people in their 20s, but if you haven't already learned the book's lesson, you need to read it.
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i will put some in an ira and the balance will come from social security...we have small house

as for the poverty thing...in carmel, california, which is more expensive than anywhere in the united states, save jupiter island, florida...we are all in poverty unless we were born rich, which i wasn't

brad pitt and jennifer aniston live up the street, clint eastwood used to live here, doris day is around the corner (almost), joan fontaine lives nearby, john travolta is in the next city, reggie jackson lives here, dexter holland has a house here, and this town and its surrrounding areas has at most 15,000 people...so unless you were born with a platinum spoon in your mouth...you are working your tail off and still relegated to a poor lifestyle

i did not choose to live here, i was born here and carmelites stay here even if they are not multi-millionaires (there are a small core of a few hundred well-known locals born here and i am one of two minorities born here...the other is my brother)

next to where i used to live is a two bedroom house, 1500 sq ft only, bad paintjob, no yard, and it just listed for 2.8 million!:confused:
 
carmel, sounds like

whistler, B.C.

BC stands for bring cash

property taxes must be . . . oh ya prop 13 eh?

You could sell out and move to Idaho, that would make a great retirement fund? or is that your point? can't tear yourself away huh , ya I saw it 1982,
 
nowadays, most people who own property here are out of towners who leave their homes vacant and just hold them like playing cards

actual locals born here are rare but among us, most of us live here our whole lives, and some of us move somewhere else for a change of pace or some job, and them come back to retire

everyday, an old local dies and it makes the paper and then an out of towner comes in and buys the house only to leave it empty...at that rate, we will end up like a resort town with a few locals and mostly summer home city people and tourists...oh wait, that happened twenty years ago...he he

we have mostly absentee owners from the east coast, texas, the middle east, central valley farmers, and other out of towners

burgulars don't have much to take since rich people are not stupid and do not keep any expensive stuff around...though bratty carmel kids have been known to break into places and have a beer party

one local kid has already broken into a whole bunch of ocean front homes, none of which are occupied

nobody has guns and nobody has a large dog...it is stylish for the rich to have tiny, mean dogs and huge suvs...i bet this sounds like your area in british columbia or any high end retirement villa:p
 
carmel vs whistler

yes that is what is happening in Whistler.
average listing for a house is now 1million.
mainly driven by microsofties with big dogs and bigger SUVs
I thought those interesting gifs were gone but they are still on the first page. Intersting reading, only 13 owners over 1%.

hang in there and enjoy the fog.
I had some friends who grew up in Santa Cruz and Huntington Beach I think, surfers and rock climbers and hangglider pilots. Spent a weird day one the beach at Marina? trying to hangglide off the dunes. Ouch, and real cold too.
 
Re: carmel vs whistler

Originally posted by kansaigaijin
yes that is what is happening in Whistler.
average listing for a house is now 1million.
mainly driven by microsofties with big dogs and bigger SUVs
I thought those interesting gifs were gone but they are still on the first page. Intersting reading, only 13 owners over 1%.

hang in there and enjoy the fog.
I had some friends who grew up in Santa Cruz and Huntington Beach I think, surfers and rock climbers and hangglider pilots. Spent a weird day one the beach at Marina? trying to hangglide off the dunes. Ouch, and real cold too.
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cold?

you are the one near the north pole...LOL

it does get cold in northern california sometimes though but inland it can sometimes get well over 100 degrees farenheit

if the retired carmel people brought their teeny dogs to canada, they would probably freeze

every now and then, i will see a husky here but they are kind of rare in these parts

in the largely black and hispanic city to the north, pitbulls and rottweilers are the flavor of the day and the honda accord (decked out) is the car of choice...my brother wanted to look tough growing up so he had this honda accord with gold wheels and tinted windows and a 150 watt stereo playing the most obnoxious rap!
 
Microsoft's direct ownership of Apple

I've just ran a holdings search on AAPL, and apparently, Microsoft doesn't directly own a significant share of Apple. This, however, does not mean MSFT does not own any shares of AAPL; it could own shares of AAPL indirectly through an investment bank like Morgan Stanley. I'm not sure if this is actually possible (since MSFT has to make a filing with the SEC to own a significant share of another company).

FYI, here are the largest holders of MSFT stock:
 

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apple ownership

for all information about any publicly traded company go to www.sec.gov (Security and Exchange comission web site) and go to EDGAR (forms&fillings).
Found following in only a few minutes:
- Dec 31, 2001 AIM Management Group Inc, Houston TX bought
383,400 Apple shares
- Jan 16, 2002 Lord,Abbet & Co New York NY bought
18,609,423 Apple shares
- FMR Corp Boston MA bought 36,365,019 Apple shares
As all of the above companies are mutual funds my guess is that Apple is majority owned by mutual fund companies but you can find all info on government's web page just spend some time there.
:p
 
Question for macktheknife...

Hey, I know this is a on a personal note, but I'd like you opnion. You really know your stuff. I'm 28, I'm contributing the max (15%) into my union 401k, about $480/month. However, my employer is not matching anything. Is there a better place I could be puting my money to get a greater return.

To validate this as a post about macs, I do own a hundred shares of AAPL, just for fun. I believe in the company and their products.

'Beaver
 
Order of investment options

Investment options (from best to "worst"):

401(k) ----> IRA (Roth or Traditional) ---> Taxable account (i.e. non-retirement)

Even if your employer isn't matching your 401(k) contributions, remember that it does reduce your taxable income since the contributions come out of your pre-tax income, and you will end up paying less taxes. For instance, if you make $1,000 per month before taxes and contribute about 20%, your taxable income will come down to about $800. If the tax rate was, say, 30%, you end up paying $240 in taxes, versus $300 (i.e. 30% x $1,000) you would have paid had you not contributed to your 401(k). If your employer did match, however, it would have been a sweet deal, since it's virtually free money.

That said, even if you are maxing out your 401(k) contributions, contribute what you can to an IRA. If you maxed out on your IRA contribution and can afford to save even more, make sure you put that into a mutual fund account too.

One last thing: Don't just mindlessly allocate your 401(k) contributions. A lot of Americans make the mistake of dividing their contributions equally to the funds offered in their 401(k) plans without a thought of how asset allocation (i.e. how much bonds, stocks, real estate, etc. in you hold) can affect their returns. As Vanguard founder John Bogle once pointed out, asset allocation is the second most important consideration when choosing what mutual funds to invest, right after expenses.

I hope this helps. Please feel free to ask me more questions.
 
One more thing

I forgot to add this: If you want good, solid capital growth in the long-run, history shows that a sensible allocation of stocks (80% or so) and bonds (20%) is your best bet. If you want to earn a short-term profit, then a night at Las Vegas is almost as good as trying to figure out if NOK or CSCO will rise or fall tomorrow. I'm being facetious, of course, but not quite. In the short-term, deviations can be wide (i.e. you are as likely to make or lose X amount) due to pure chance. In the long-run, the averages assert themselves, and a long-term trend is created. In statistics, this is known as the law of averages.

Anyhow, I just want to make sure my fellow Mac Users will become sensible investors. We all want to get that G5 PowerMac with a 20GB iPod when they come out, right? :p
 
Thanks...

Thanks for the insite macktheknife. I want to know more about investing. My dad, who is 49, is just now thinkin' of what to do about retirement. I don't want to be there.
 
If you want to know more

Here are some resources I recommend:

"Get a Financial Life" by Beth Kobliner

"A Random Walk Down Wall Street" by Burton Malkiel

http://money.cnn.com/pf/101/

It's a good thing you're thinking about your future--Social Security won't be there for people our age by the time we retire, so we must do what we can for ourselves. Good luck! Please tell your dad that even if he's in his late 40s, it's not too late to start saving. Admittedly, he's behind the curve, but it's better late than never in the field of investment.
 
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