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morkintosh said:
I go back and fourth on this. At IBM we all had our Thinkpads and the ability to work anywhere, which was nice. We also had the ability go home and dump the contents of the HD every night and walk of with millions in IP or install every class of spyware known to man and then bring it back into the office.

Laptops make a lot of sense in a lot of ways for corporate deployment, but the security issues alone would make me cringe if I were an IT support manager.

Quite so. For that reason we've already established that if we go that way, staff will not be allowed to take the laptop out of the office.

Also, I don't see theft as any greater issue than for desktops now that they've become so small and light.
 
ChrisH3677 said:
Also, I don't see theft as any greater issue than for desktops now that they've become so small and light.

But desktops dont transit very often, whereas laptops go on the bus, train, plane, and are then left exposed in cars (like mobile phones), on cafe counters, etc making them much more vulnerable.
 
Yeah, but what if you're cheap? Or poor?

thatwendigo said:
Lastly, TANSTAAFL. You get what you pay for, and if you want a cheap box, then there's already a market overflowing with them. I hope you enjoy the hardware problems they have.

Ah, but therein lies the rub. Now don't hurt me for saying this 😛 but Apple does need a lower end machine. The eMac is great for some things, and I doubt Apple is losing money on them, but most people would prefer a headless Mac. Doesn't have to be the latest tech, doesn't have to be low quality either. Just needs to be cheaper. And the G4 Tower is too expensive for what you get. Some of us can't afford to spend a lot on computers, you know.

See, we'd rather not have to buy a PC. Besides, there was an article on billpalmer.net about how those $499 PCs aren't really that price (rebates, upgrades, etc.), but all I'm asking for is a new, sub-$1,000, Mac. G4, G5, replaceable video card... doesn't matter. All it's got to do is run the current apps at acceptable speeds, and not have an attached monitor.

Take the monitor off the eMac or iMac. Update it a little, sell it for $700-$1000. It will sell like hotcakes. Just like the original iMac, and the original Mac. The computers for the rest of us. I'll be hoping for a GHz G4 iBook for $999 (least it's portable and I can always attach my own monitor) or a second hand, upgraded Tower to replace my aging Beige G3. Or a nice refurb iMac (just use the hack to allow spanning to your own monitor instead of mirroring). Or a price drop on the "current" G4 Towers. Whatever, I'd be happy.

But try telling someone they should buy a Mac, they always say they're too expensive. And they're right. At least as of right now. True you get what you pay for, but it wouldn't hurt to have a cheaper box for switchers, etc. Cheaper doesn't have to mean lower quality, just less of the stuff some people don't need. Like a non-removable monitor.
 
solvs said:
Ah, but therein lies the rub. Now don't hurt me for saying this 😛 but Apple does need a lower end machine. The eMac is great for some things, and I doubt Apple is losing money on them, but most people would prefer a headless Mac. Doesn't have to be the latest tech, doesn't have to be low quality either. Just needs to be cheaper. And the G4 Tower is too expensive for what you get. Some of us can't afford to spend a lot on computers, you know.

I'm sorry, but the eMac is already about as low end as things are going to get for a while. I agree with you that the G4 towers are now overpriced, if you consider what's in the G5 towers, but I'm also pretty thoroughly convinced that the eMac is being undersold. The reason for that is that the chip in the eMac is actually a G4 1.33 underclocked to whatever rate they leave it at for heat reason, not to mention the cooling system and the integration that was needed to create it.

See, we'd rather not have to buy a PC. Besides, there was an article on billpalmer.net about how those $499 PCs aren't really that price (rebates, upgrades, etc.), but all I'm asking for is a new, sub-$1,000, Mac. G4, G5, replaceable video card... doesn't matter. All it's got to do is run the current apps at acceptable speeds, and not have an attached monitor.

Well, I'd rather have a G5 dualie for free... Unfortunately, Apple and I don't see eye to eye on that one, and I don't think they're going to do it. I agree that the bargain PCs are really just traps for the computer illiterate, and I've basically said that for a while. And, on your last point, my eMac rev A does run most things pretty acceptably. I'm currently running five programs at once (iTunes, Firefox, Safari, Photoshop, and Cantrip), with my processor monitor ticking over at 20-30% when I'm not doing things with filters and my RAM showing 336 out of 512MB in use.

Take the monitor off the eMac or iMac. Update it a little, sell it for $700-$1000. It will sell like hotcakes. Just like the original iMac, and the original Mac. The computers for the rest of us.

Except it won't be like either, because it's not an all-in-one, it's not as simple, and it takes more cables. You lose a large portion of the simplicity when you take the monitor out, because that's at least two more wires to be strung.

But try telling someone they should buy a Mac, they always say they're too expensive. And they're right. At least as of right now. True you get what you pay for, but it wouldn't hurt to have a cheaper box for switchers, etc. Cheaper doesn't have to mean lower quality, just less of the stuff some people don't need. Like a non-removable monitor.

Wait, wait... What? Macs are too expensive, but you get what you pay for? Make up your mind, man!

Actually, it would hurt to have a cheaper box for switchers, for one reason alone. You pointed out the first thing every PC user "knows" about the mac, which is that it's supposedly too expensive. The second one is that they're "too slow," and a low-end machine won't fix that at all. In fact, it'll make it worse, because Apple can hardly afford to throw top of the line speed into a cheap box.

Oh, and cheaper does mean lower quality, since most of the expense in a G5 sytem is the parts that make it speedy. CRTs are cheap, these days, and not a whole lot more expensive for flat-CRTs like the ones in use in eMacs... You might cut $100, at most, off the price at the OEM level, for a machine that will still have DHM crying in the morning.
 
aswitcher said:
But desktops dont transit very often, whereas laptops go on the bus, train, plane, and are then left exposed in cars (like mobile phones), on cafe counters, etc making them much more vulnerable.

Ah! That was in response to my earlier suggestion that I'm considering replacing desktops with laptops. Thus they wouldn't be transient.
 
ChrisH3677 said:
Ah! That was in response to my earlier suggestion that I'm considering replacing desktops with laptops. Thus they wouldn't be transient.

Well if you can lock them up after use I guess thats fine. Seems like a more expensive way to do business considering desktops are usually signficantly cheaper.
 
thatwendigo said:
Well, I'd rather have a G5 dualie for free... Unfortunately, Apple and I don't see eye to eye on that one, and I don't think they're going to do it.

Oh, and cheaper does mean lower quality, since most of the expense in a G5 sytem is the parts that make it speedy. CRTs are cheap, these days, and not a whole lot more expensive for flat-CRTs like the ones in use in eMacs... You might cut $100, at most, off the price at the OEM level, for a machine that will still have DHM crying in the morning.

The difference being that Apple will lose money on a free G5, but gain new sales on a headless, under $1000 system. Like the iPod mini. Lower margins, but higher sales. Apple will still make a profit. Not that I hope they become like Dell... I agreed with the "you get what you pay for" remember. I don't want cheap, just cheapER. Lop off that CRT (or LCD), take that $100 off, and you tell me people won't be scrambling for it. I already have nice monitors. I don't mind the cables. I mind Windows. Look around, a lot of people are like this.

Of course, there are always people that will never be happy. But I'm not him. 😛 :cough:

Remember, I'm going to "settle" for an updated iBook and external display to replace my Beige G3 running 10.2.8 (along with my Performa 6400, and my Mac Classic). Hey, I love Apple. Their products are usually pretty good. Plus a hundred dollars.
 
thatwendigo said:
I'm sorry, but the eMac is already about as low end as things are going to get for a while. I agree with you that the G4 towers are now overpriced, if you consider what's in the G5 towers, but I'm also pretty thoroughly convinced that the eMac is being undersold. The reason for that is that the chip in the eMac is actually a G4 1.33 underclocked to whatever rate they leave it at for heat reason, not to mention the cooling system and the integration that was needed to create it.

Actually I dont think its Heat since people are running them at 1.33 and gaming with no problem. Apple wants seperation between models so they( cripple ) if you will. Cant have Emac as fast as Imac and since Imacs space is so tight it might be hard to crank up the chip or cant have Imac running as fast as Powerbook. So what happens is Emac has been crippled because of Imac because of Powerbook because of Powermac. so the Consumer line ends up being way less then it should. They did the same thing with the videochip. Cant have Low performing FX5200 in Emac because Imac has it so they give Emac a really old radeon 7500 chip. Fx5200 are dirt cheap but Apple still had to do this to protect Imac. Crippling game is not the way to market computers,a better way is to have several models and let the consumer choose whats in it. This is Huge on the PC side and all the leaders do this. Apple on the otherhand removes the consumer choices and forces the buyer up the tier to get the one item that may be important to the buyer. so now the buyer may have to spend more to get a decent cpu or video card or monitor. I wonder how many people would have loved a 1.33 Emac or a 15" 1.25 G4 Imac. Its about choice and Apple takes that away while the otherside will bend over backwards to build a machine that suites you the consumer. Consumer is King!
 
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