Apple Pay and signature, why?

Julien

macrumors G4
Original poster
Jun 30, 2007
11,140
3,829
Atlanta
Just used :apple:Pay at Sprout's and was asked to sign. Was told signature required on all amounts over $50. What is the point in this? They only have a random token and none of my info, so what does the signature prove are even relate to? Since there is no identifying info in :apple:Pay what if I signed it John Doe, Barack Obama, June Fifteenth or Jurassic Park? They would have no idea of what my name is anyway?
 

Gav2k

macrumors G3
Jul 24, 2009
9,218
1,584
Even tho your details are hidden (sort of) the transaction is still tied to you as is your name and signature
 

reclusive46

macrumors 65816
Apr 14, 2011
1,088
27
Canada
This will change once the US has fully rolled out EMV (Chip and Signature and Chip and PIN). On non-EMV terminals the iphone sends the terminal a contactless version of a standard magnetic stripe (Know as MSD contactless). The terminal has no idea that your fingerprint was verified, it just thinks a card has been swiped.

On EMV contactless the phone/card can tell a EMV terminal how to verify the cardholder (I.e. Signature, PIN checked with the bank, PIN stored on the card or no verification). With a phone it can tell the terminal that On Device cardholder verification (I.e. Touch ID in the iPhones case) took place and the terminal doesn't need to do any verification.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
47,555
16,052
Because signatures are still used as part of authorization elements in U.S. credit card transactions.
 

chabig

macrumors 603
Sep 6, 2002
5,906
3,148
They don't know what your signature looks like. Just put an "X" on the line.
 

Julien

macrumors G4
Original poster
Jun 30, 2007
11,140
3,829
Atlanta
Even tho your details are hidden (sort of) the transaction is still tied to you as is your name and signature
The merchant only gets a random token number that has no reference to any other info. So what is this signature tied to? The random token number?

How is it 'tied' to my name since there is no personal info included in the transaction and the merchant doesn't have or know my name?

So if I sign June Fifteenth to a random token number what does the merchant have?
 

Gav2k

macrumors G3
Jul 24, 2009
9,218
1,584
If the bank or police question the transaction there is a tie.

Yes the merchant gets a token but the bank knows you've spent x at a place.
 

Julien

macrumors G4
Original poster
Jun 30, 2007
11,140
3,829
Atlanta
If the bank or police question the transaction there is a tie.

Yes the merchant gets a token but the bank knows you've spent x at a place.
And what answer do they get if they see June Fifteenth as a signature?:eek:
 

Gav2k

macrumors G3
Jul 24, 2009
9,218
1,584
And what answer do they get if they see June Fifteenth as a signature?:eek:
As a responsible card holder I would hope you would sign correctly so that fraudulent transactions would be highlighted if you had to report such activity
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
47,555
16,052

Diode

macrumors 68020
Apr 15, 2004
2,371
38
Washington DC
Since anyone can essentially add an card to their phone (thieves are even adding stolen cards to their phones) the signature technically is a way to verify the owner of the card.

In cases of fraud - one could prove that the signature of the purchase was not their own signature.
 

UAV

macrumors regular
Jan 11, 2015
178
84
A system that is used practically everywhere unlike the "state of the art" system that can't be used to purchase pretty much anything needed for life.
what system are you talking about that you say is used everywhere? applepay,credit cards? both of thoes also have there places were you can't use them
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
47,555
16,052
what system are you talking about that you say is used everywhere? applepay,credit cards? both of thoes also have there places were you can't use them
The credit/debit system. Sure, it's not used everywhere, but for the comparison of where BitCoin is used and accepted (or even known about) saying "practically everywhere" is comparatively close enough to make the point.
 

tmiw

macrumors 68020
Jun 26, 2007
2,137
463
San Diego, CA
Since anyone can essentially add an card to their phone (thieves are even adding stolen cards to their phones) the signature technically is a way to verify the owner of the card.

In cases of fraud - one could prove that the signature of the purchase was not their own signature.
That brings up a point though--once EMV becomes more common here and Touch ID is used in lieu of signature, are people going to have a harder time disputing in-person charges using Apple Pay? In theory it's not supposed to be because of US law, but I can see a bank or two trying to draw out the process as long as possible.

As for thieves adding cards to burner iPhones/Apple Watches, it seems that at the very least the actual owner of the card gets an email or letter whenever a card is added, so one could call in and shut it down quickly.