Apple Pay Gains 12 New Participating Issuers in United States

[mike2413088]

If Apple really cared about its customers, they'd stop selling us and our purchase info to individual banks, and instead let the whole world use Apple Pay.

Charging an issuer for the initial card registration is one thing. That requires some back end support on the part of Apple's servers. (Not really, since even that could be done directly from the phone, but we'll let that go.)

However, charging a bank per debit/credit POS transaction... which is strictly between the phone and the NFC terminal, where Apple is not involved at all, is simply greedy blackmail forced upon a bank/credit union in order to be allowed to participate.

That charge, plus the info that Apple requires back from the banks, is what is keeping banks from joining up.

(And to the naive, nope, the charge has nothing to do with using tokenization. That's something which requires no extra effort on Apple's part, was not designed by them, and was already a known method. Nor does it have to do with fingerprint security, since a passcode works, too. It's simply about being allowed to be part of a payment method that is considered to be more convenient... like any other NFC method... plus getting the same purchase information that the banks previously got.)

It costs banks less to pay Apple .15 per $100 of Apple Pay transactions rather than pay out billions every year in credit and debit card fraud reimbursement, not to mention printing up what will be these new EMV chip/pin cards for each new customer that has had fraudulent activity on their account. Banks shouldn't be hesitant at all to use Apple Pay. Let's not forget the money the bank has in it's vault is the customer's and not the bank's to keep locked up for profit. The money that is saved from Apple Pay will be a step towards bettering the economy. Banks will have more money, and so will people because their customers won't be defrauded with a $0 balance in their checking account when they had $700 in it the day before.

 

[mike2413088]

And still no North Carolina State Employee's Credit Union. Well I've opened a Wells Fargo account to just use Apple Pay and I use it instead of the credit union now. Maybe some day the credit union will come out of the 19th century.

I feel the same way with Empower Federal Credit Union. I appreciate the lower interests rates they charge on loans and credit cards, but my God, I want to hit myself in the head with a hammer sometimes.

I have a Chase checking account also but my direct deposit isn't going there yet because I have a loan through Empower which gets paid directly out of my paycheck every week & I also have a lot of checks remaining that are free to pay rent with every month. Chase actually has a usable app for their customers, the ability to take photos of a check to deposit it, and they support Apple Pay already. Can't wait to make the permanent switch.

 

[Benjamin Frost]

Still waiting for Apple Pay in the UK. And iTunes Radio.

Tim Cook's Apple=Delays.

 

[n0m0n]

And still no Discover....

It is my understanding that Discover Card will be on Apple Pay later this fall. They need and are updating their systems first.

 

[tmiw]

It is my understanding that Discover Card will be on Apple Pay later this fall. They need and are updating their systems first.

I got massively downvoted for this elsewhere but Apple might also need to release a new version of iOS to support Discover, much like how they added UnionPay to one of the betas a while back.

 

[raydragon]

Great! So when can I used my North Carolina State Employees Credit Union debit card? :-/. NCSECU said they think it costs too much and are still trying to decide if its worth it to their customers. Its the second largest Credit Union in the USA with almost 2 million users.

The response I got from SECU in November was that it was coming "soon" once the "security" issues had been resolved. I can use my Check Card at Home Depot, Target, BJ's - all resulting in new cards being issued after data breaches - and NOW they are concerned about security. Funny that.

 

[Andrew.s]

Just received a email from Simple yesterday that they just launched support as well.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

Having been stranded* in Canada a couple of weeks ago with just my E*Trade Bank debit card, which was denied everywhere I wanted to buy something, but my Chase Credit card in my iPhone 6+ worked fine.

While on the phone with E*Trade Bank, the person on the other end said, "We're on the forefront of working with Apple, and we should be one of the first to have this Apple Pay thing."

I laughed at him, and told him, "Well, it's been out since September last year, and BECU has had it for 6 months, and you are way behind the curve on this."

The only thing that is keeping me at E*Trade bank is they refund ATM fees (which we did 10 times, $20 CDN at a time, costing them $30 in ATM charges), and the hassle of changing banks.

*It was a vacation, folks... I can think of nothing better than to be "stranded" in Canada with all of the extremely nice and helpful people there. The only thing nicer than the beauty of the country is the nice people that are there.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

I thought Credit Unions would be the hardest to persuade and last to switch to anything... They usually don't do anything with new tech for years (until a majority of their members would benefit from it).

Frankly I'm surprised they even issue cards.

The funny thing is that most of the banks (by quantity) supporting Apple Pay are the CUs.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

Until MCX CurrentC is gone, you won't find broad support for Apple Pay or anything else. Retailers want that tie-in purchase data and less fees more than they want to please a customer's desires.

You're likely to spend a bit more than average for short time if they support Apple Pay, but things will return to normal quick. They might even lose a bit of purchase data.

If they can track your spending across multiple stores (through MCX CurrentC) they stand a better chance to make money off you for a much longer period of time by targeting your ever-changing desires.

The only thing Apple could do to get faster retailer acceptance is to bring in some kind of way to tie loyalty cards directly into Apple Pay so the retailer can keep gathering data on you.

From what I've experienced in the wilds of Western Washington, anywhere you see:

You can use Apple Pay.

That will be coming soon to pretty much everywhere in the USA over this summer, as retailers will be liable for fraud if they don't accept this method of payment from October, 2015 and onward.
http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-inte...15-the-end-of-the-swipe-and-sign-credit-card/

 

[wolfpackfan]

Great! So when can I used my North Carolina State Employees Credit Union debit card? :-/. NCSECU said they think it costs too much and are still trying to decide if its worth it to their customers. Its the second largest Credit Union in the USA with almost 2 million users.

Interesting. Well I gave up waiting. I opened up a Wells Fargo account to do my monthly shopping with and use it with Apple Pay. I only use SECU to pay my online bills. Wells Fargo's mobile deposit makes it very easy to move the money at the first of the month. I've always found SECU very slow to do anything new or innovative.

 

[maxxodd]

I still haven't used apple pay because neither of my primary cards are participating. Fidelity Investment Rewards Visa and Chase Business Ink MC. Get on the stick Apple!

 

[ericframirez]

still waiting for discover

Same! I recently acquired a discover card and didn't even think about if ApplePay supported it or not. I guess my assumption was wrong.

 

[hindmost]

Apple Pay gained 24 new participating issuers in early May and another 35 participating issuers in late May.

Article Link: Apple Pay Gains 12 New Participating Issuers in United States

 

[hindmost]

Not only does my bank (USAA FEDERAL SAVINGS BANK) 'participate'.....it also uses the biometric 'touch ID' feature of iPhone 6 and 6 Plus to login to it's full feature iPhone bank app.

 

[ericframirez]

That's always been a tough decision for me, whether to open a checking account with a local bank or a national bank. It seems the big national banks like Chase or BOA have nice and feature rich apps, but local banks have a ton of ATMs in convenient locations! But then again, my local bank took a while for ApplePay support.

 

[trife]

My credit union just linked me to an announcement from their IT dept that said they're looking at a late 2016 launch of Apple Pay support.

I have a hard time believing it takes TWO years to figure everything out. Probably has to do with $$.

 

[Dub1ous]

And still no Discover....

I remember reading somewhere that Discover support is coming in the fall.

 

[Silver Box]

Still no UK news. While the US updates its entire retail POS technology, the UK and most of Europe has had chip & pin/contactless for years. They'd only need to deal with 5 banks to cover most of the UK. 300 in the US? WTF. The banks say ask Apple, Apple obviously wont reply to requests for international pipeline. Very disappointing roll out imo, sadly. I wont even start about iTunes Radio.

 

[BruiserB]

The funny thing is that most of the banks (by quantity) supporting Apple Pay are the CUs.

I believe many CUs use a common credit card processor. Each CU is not actually issuing their own cards, the processor is. Each CU's card is just another branded version of the processor. So once the processor is set up with ApplePay, it's rather trivial to turn on each CU.

 

[rutiger]

Nice but issuers is not the /issue/ its where you can use it and the slowness of retailers offering to accept the payment type.

10000000% agree. Besides the apple store no place I shop accepts apple pay. Fantastic technology terrible adoption rate.

 

[kdarling]

Apple is not in the charity business.

They would essentially providing free services to banks at that point. The tiny fee they charge banks likely covers their cost, developments and advertising.

Apple's fee is NOT tiny. In fact, the fee (and the amount of information that Apple wants back from the banks) is exactly why we don't see Apple Pay rolling out over the planet. Banks in Canada and the UK and the rest of Europe cannot afford what the US banks are paying Apple. Not even close.

For example, in Canada, Interac charges its members 0.6 cents per transaction. Apple wants 0.5 cents per transaction. That would almost double the fee.

In Europe, interchange fees are capped at 0.23% for small NFC purchases. Giving Apple 0.15% of the purchase... over half of the collected fee... is simply not feasible.

In the UK, banks have also expressed worry about the amount of purchase data that Apple wants back.

What info is Apple selling to the banks? Our purchase info? When you buy something with your credit card now, your bank doesn't know about it...but now Apple is selling them this info? I'm not sure you fully understand ApplePay.

Read me closer, please. Apple is selling banks the continued flow of information.

From the point of view of the banks, Apple Pay keeps the floodgates of information flowing as always, which allows the banks to continue to sell aggregated purchase information to advertisers and back to the merchants we use.

The banks were rightfully worried that Apple might use a Google Wallet type method and act as a proxy, hiding valuable information that could also be used to calculate changes to our credit. This is why the major US banks are willing to give Apple their blood money.

It's not so easy for the Credit Unions, who instead are simply forced to pay more than they want. They'll likely have to somehow pass the increased cost back to their members.

Apple is selling the banks extra security.

If the card issuers really wanted extra security, they'd have mandated chip & PIN in the USA. But that's not what they care about. They care about getting people used to the convenience of spending money, especially the less that it feels like you're spending real money.

Apple is selling banks both the convenience factor, and as pointed out above, the continued flow of valuable information.

Overseas, of course, many of those countries have already switched to chip & PIN, so Apple Pay isn't seen as necessary for security.

It costs banks less to pay Apple .15 per $100 of Apple Pay transactions rather than pay out billions every year in credit and debit card fraud reimbursement,

On the contrary, Apple's fee percentages are several times HIGHER THAN WHAT US BANKS NORMALLY LOSE IN FRAUD from in-person credit card fraud (0.15% versus 0.04%).

If it were just about fraud, it would cost banks LESS to NOT accept Apple Pay. But it's not. It's more about information flow, and getting on the Apple brand wagon so more people spend more money.

 

[tmiw]

Apple's fee is NOT tiny. In fact, the fee (and the amount of information that Apple wants back from the banks) is exactly why we don't see Apple Pay rolling out over the planet. Banks in Canada and the UK and the rest of Europe cannot afford what the US banks are paying Apple. Not even close.

I can see Apple accepting far less or even zero fees if that means AP spreads outside the US. Remember, Apple is primarily a hardware business. We probably won't ever be privy to such info unless it leaks somehow though.

On the contrary, Apple's fee percentages are several times HIGHER THAN WHAT US BANKS NORMALLY LOSE IN FRAUD from in-person credit card fraud (0.15% versus 0.04%).

IIRC the "6x" figure or whatever was floating around a while has been debunked. And even if AP fraud was close to that much higher, it's basically the fault of the banks/CUs for having bad verification practices in the first place.

 

[kdarling]

I can see Apple accepting far less or even zero fees if that means AP spreads outside the US. Remember, Apple is primarily a hardware business. We probably won't ever be privy to such info unless it leaks somehow though.

I agree, I think Apple will have to accept much less outside the US.

In an ideal world, Apple shouldn't be charging anything for purchases. All Apple provides is the NFC hardware platform.

The payment applets themselves, the ones inside the NFC secure element that handle everything else, are written by the card platforms (Visa, MC, etc). They could've easily use their tokenization method without even saying "boo" to Apple.

For that matter, it would make more sense if WE got a kickback instead of Apple. After all, it's WE who are making the purchases. Apple's profiting from our spending.

IIRC the "6x" figure or whatever was floating around a while has been debunked. And even if AP fraud was close to that much higher, it's basically the fault of the banks/CUs for having bad verification practices in the first place.

I'm not talking about that report of Apple Pay fraud running at 6%, due to bad verification.

I'm talking about every day fraud rates. It's absolute nonsense to claim that it costs banks less to pay Apple than they pay for fraud. It's just another piece of evidence that security has little or nothing to do with the fees, a fact which payment insiders already knew from the beginning.

 

[perkedel]

I've got Wells Fargo. Got Apple Pay since day 1, now, I just need more places that take Apple Pay!