Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Apple Pay Gains 18 New Participating Issuers in United States

iDuel said:
Unfortunately you are incorrect. The liability shift pertains to merchants purchasing readers that will accept chip and signature/pin debit and credit cards. Nowhere is it mentioned that NFC will be required and there are readers that do accept chip and signature/pin but do not have NFC capabilities.
Click to expand...
I did a little digging (and answered my question - it's 10/1/15), but I also found this:

With this type of liability shift, the party that is the cause of a chip-on-chip transaction not occurring (i.e., either the issuer or the merchant’s acquirer) will be financially liable for any resulting card-present counterfeit fraud losses. When a transaction occurs using chip technology, any liability for counterfeit fraud, though unlikely, would follow current Visa Operating Regulations.

The policy assigns liability for counterfeit fraud to the party that has not made the investment in EMV chip cards (issuers) or terminals (merchants’ acquirers). The policy encourages wider deployment of EMV cards and terminals.
(emphasis added)
http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/bulletin-us-participation-liability-shift-080911.pdf
Click to expand...

It looks like the liability is on merchants that don't purchase the EMV readers, or card issuers that don't hand out chipped cards to their customers.
 
One thing I stumbled upon to see if your bank will (eventually) take the cards:

Try adding your card.
If you get past the "Card Details" screen, but it doesn't get added, that is a good sign. (OK, that was a bit convoluted... If it gets added, that's a better sign...)
My bank told me that they are doing testing, and when I previously pressed "Next" after putting in the card details, I'd get the "Card Issuers Does Not Yet Offer Support for This Card" message, but when I tried later that week, I got the Terms and Conditions page, but then got a "Card not added" message.

It looks like the testing is over, as I'm back to the "Does not yet offer support" pop-up.

***Edited for clarity***
 
Last edited:
Makosuke said:
It's a little mysterious to me why a lot of the new NFC terminals don't have any icon at all--you'd think that'd be something they'd want to advertise, and all they need is a little symbol screened onto the case somewhere.

I've noticed, however, that most do have the four little empty progress dots somewhere on the screen, even if they don't indicate NFC anywhere.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing the card reader manufacturers stopped putting the symbol directly on the unit because there were so many retailers not turning the NFC function on, or purposely disabling it (like the Current-C partners), so having the NFC symbol permanently displayed caused too many complaints/issues.

Now they seem to just show the symbol on the screen once they turn the NFC readers on.
BN-FC289_APPLEP_G_20141020151718.jpg


This appears to be the same unit Walmart, Sams Club, and Target are using (at least in my area). Since they are Current-C partners they have NFC disabled and you don't see this same screen.
 
Beerstalker said:
I'm guessing the card reader manufacturers stopped putting the symbol directly on the unit because there were so many retailers not turning the NFC function on, or purposely disabling it (like the Current-C partners), so having the NFC symbol permanently displayed caused too many complaints/issues.

Now they seem to just show the symbol on the screen once they turn the NFC readers on.
BN-FC289_APPLEP_G_20141020151718.jpg


This appears to be the same unit Walmart, Sams Club, and Target are using (at least in my area). Since they are Current-C partners they have NFC disabled and you don't see this same screen.
Click to expand...

Home Despot too...
 
Makosuke said:
Does this work differently in Europe?

In the US, as a customer, when I use a credit card I pay exactly the same amount as I would if I paid with cash or a debit card at 99.9% of retailers, but I get between 1% and 2% of what I spent back at the end of the month if I use a decent credit card.

(And yes, I of course know that the cash back percent I get comes out of the transaction fee, and is bundled into the cost of goods, but excepting a few gas stations the cost is identical either way, so I might as well get some of it back.)
Click to expand...

Nevermind. These fees only apply if you withdraw cash from an ATM, pay something with your CC in another currency or there's an additional fee from a third party.

However, there is still a yearly fee of about $100 for the cheapest card whereas the Maestro Card is free and you don't get charged anything if you withdraw cash from an ATM (of your bank).
 
xSeaside said:
However, there is still a yearly fee of about $100 for the cheapest card whereas the Maestro Card is free and you don't get charged anything if you withdraw cash from an ATM (of your bank).
Click to expand...
Then that is still different from the US. If you spend more than $10,000 per year with your card and never carry a balance, a $100 fee would still be worth it, but in the US it's easy to find a card that gives at least 1% cash back and has no fee at all, as long as your credit rating is pretty good.

Here, anyway, the cards with a fee usually add some other features, like extended warranty or travel insurance for American Express cards.
 
Beerstalker said:
Now they seem to just show the symbol on the screen once they turn the NFC readers on.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the unit my supermarket just installed definitely doesn't display anything on the screen apart from the four subtle dots at the very bottom (the first one lit green until you give it something to read). It's a different (and newer-looking) model than the one you had a picture of.

Interestingly, the other supermarket's no-NFC readers are the first non-Square ones I've ever seen with no pen--you just sign with your finger.
 
Last edited:
chrf097 said:
And yet, my bank still doesn't support it.
Click to expand...
Mine doesn't either. I suppose they don't see the point in reducing fraud to near 0? It boggles the mind. Perhaps nobody has explained it to them yet... Talk about an obvious long-term cost savings strategy.

EDIT: Hmm... I just discovered that the third party that my credit union does things through does, in fact, support Apple Pay. I suppose they truly don't see the value in it then...
 
Last edited:
For those who have Empower Federal Credit Union (like me).

I believe the current Visa Cards do not support Apple Pay, as the credit union is in the middle of switching their business cards, debit, and credit cards to MasterCard. I do believe the MasterCard's will support Apple Pay at this credit union when you receive them.

I'm not 100% sure about this, but that's what I'm guessing. I'll follow up later after I receive an e-mail back from them.
 
Beerstalker said:
Exactly. I can't believe how many people here don't understand this. Apple can't really do much about getting more retailers to support Apple Pay. Apple is not a credit card processing company, they don't sell credit card processing hardware, or retail POS systems. They really having nothing at all to do with that side of the business.

What Apple does have an impact in is the banking side, where they are making agreements with the banks to take over some of the responsibilty of verifying the charges are real from the banks/credit card companies. They get a small percentage of the banks fees for doing so. They seem to be doing very well at this in the US.

Retailers are the ones you need to be putting pressure on to get Apple Pay (or NFC payments period) working. The retailer needs to update their credit card machines to ones with NFC capability, and then they have to get the software to support it. Many retailers are in the process of upgrading their machines already to accept chip and signature/chip and pin cards. Most of the hardware that supports this also supports NFC payments. However, many retailers are dragging their feet on updating the software and the rest of their POS system to where the chip reader actually works, let along the NFC readers. Then you have the whole Current-C debacle on top of that.

My guess is come October/November time frame there will be a lot more places that will take NFC/Apple Pay, when the retailers get all their chip and pin/chip and signature stuff up and running. Some retailers will still probably hold off on NFC at that time though, and then we will probably get a bunch more after the holiday shopping season is over.
Click to expand...

The adoption would roll out much faster if Apple were to keep their information a little more private about how much they're charging who for the use of Apple Pay. Charge the US banks the amount they've agreed upon, but make it free for other banks around the world.
 
Makosuke said:
Hah! The guys at work aren't the only people who call it that!
Click to expand...

I worked at a store that called all of the competition by different names like that.

Funny too that I walked in to my mom's house in Florida, and my sister was putting groceries away. From Publix.

I instantly said 'Pubix' and brought the house down. You have to be in on the backstory for that to make sense. I'm adopted. Met my half sister a few years before that. Apparently we both have the same quirky sense of humor. Interesting...
 
BigHonkingDeal said:
Looks like Samsung will be competing here as well.... and might have an advantage. I just read an interesting article on the BBC web site about "Samsung Pay"

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-33957376
Click to expand...

The main advantage there is the ability to send a signal to the magnetic stripe pickup in the terminal. While the article claims that this mechanism is still secure, I'm somewhat skeptical that an EMV-style cryptogram will work over the stripe reader. If it does, great, but I don't fully buy into that yet. Plus, I wonder how reliable it can be expected to be in practice or if multiple "swipes" are a problem (something not discussed).

Beyond that one trick, the mechanisms are basically identical.
 
BigHonkingDeal said:
Yeah, I wonder how many vendors will except this.....

That's my main problem with Apple pay, I love it but no place where I shop takes it.
Click to expand...

Part of this is the timing of regulations in the US. As frustrating as it is, Apple launching ahead of the new regulations was a smart move. By beating out the purchases that many companies will need to make of new hardware, they give an incentive to pick up and enable NFC at the same time.

Now, I'll be disappointed if all these EMV rollouts in the US happen without supporting NFC as well, either because of CurrenC obligations or laziness. But the EMV rollout is still not there yet, as I've been able to use my chip card once so far all year (and I use Apple Pay semi-regularly at a handful of places now). I really don't want to be swiping in 2016. It needs to all be chip or NFC (EMV either way).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back