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I might be way off base… but what if this luxury company with lots of intelligent people and smart leaders (who can predict the financial future far better than I can) knows that the financial stability of the average person is going to be much different in the next few years?

Maybe Apple was a luxury brand that didn’t care about the cost. Hence, when Steve told Ive to make the iMac g3 have a transparent blue case even though it was three times (I think) the typical case cost. But those days are gone. This is now a company that will sell an Apple Watch 3 way past its time or use “old” designs and call it an SE. And instead of someone saying, “Hey, why are they selling old stuff with a new name” we say instead, “hey, they are making products for all price points”...

I work at a nonprofit (a church) that pays for my phone and plan. They want me to be reachable at all times, and I guess it is nice that I got a new iPhone (or whatever phone I wanted to pick). But I also drive a vehicle with 300,000 miles and have to intentionally not buy groceries I would like because I also make 40k a year. So for someone like me, the ability to split something between this month’s paycheck and next month’s paycheck could be a way for me to keep needed purchases on debit without having to resort to another of my credit cards that in the past few years have become more and more needed for even the basic “needs” of life.

I might be an exception. I read a post about people with second homes in other countries with 100+ HomeKit accessories. I also see posts from people who say they bought a MacBook Air just to have it in the living room because the MBP is rendering in the home office. And I admit I am envious. I have nice setup at work, but I wanted so badly for the TD snafu to be true so I could get an MBA half-price and use it at home :)

There are plenty of people who have bought things they couldn’t afford. I admit my guilt. Many people here probably have as well. There are also plenty of people in this country for whom money is virtually not a thought on their minds. They want it. They buy it in cash. And they got there because they worked hard; or they got there because they happened to luck up and got a killer job when their friend got skipped over for the interview.

My encouragement would be to be conservative with comments making fun of options to help the middle/lower class (a group that maybe Apple sees as increasing in the next decade?). Of course, some run up debt just for the fun of it with no intentions of paying it back. There are also those like me who are trying everything they humanly know to provide for their family while still serving in a career that aims to increase the happiness of others before increasing the comfort of our finances. And for those people, something like this could be used responsibly.

Above, someone makes a K-Mart remark. I smiled without offense because when I was a kid going to K-Mart was a big deal. I got to get a $5 toy and then go to the Little Caesar’s cafe in K-Mart and get a little pack of mini crazy bread with my mama. Then after my stepdad murdered my mother when I was ten, and I got a new family, K-Mart clothes turned into clothes from the mall. And my pride grew as well as I became a teenager who wouldn’t wear Walmart clothes… I quickly forgot where I came from--especially considering it wasn’t my own bootstraps that got me where I was. It was a babysitter who was willing to adopt me as her own. I could boast about nothing. It was all due to the gift of another.

A few years ago, I became friends with a homeless man in our town. He would hang out at a local place, and if I were in the area, I would make a point to stop and sit at the table outside with him. That helped me so much. As I got to know Sammy, I learned that he knew far more about life, electronics, engineering, etc., a whole whole whole lot more than I did. What made the difference? Was I smarter or harder working or better working with my hands? No. I often thought about him (he is gone from our town now) and how most of our country is (like him) one blown engine that makes us rely on a friend to get to work, that begins not to be able to make it to work, that loses our job, that loses our rental place and next thing we know we are in a position we never thought we’d be in. It just takes a few missed paychecks for many Americans to end up in the exact same place.

I know MR isn’t a philosophy forum or how to treat people better. But, treating people better includes not saying things about people that are not true, even if they are people we do not know. So while Pay Later might do more hurt than help in the long run, I can feel for those who see it as another way to juggle the increasing cost of living with a flatline income that isn’t keeping up.

I don’t know how I even got off on this. I worked all day, saw my family for about 3 hours tonight, then came back to the office to work through the night on several items with hard deadlines around noon today. I need to log off and get back to my projects after this little mental break. But perhaps this post can be an encouragement to someone. My Apple Card used to be solid white monthly, paying it off in full. Then a few family situations impacted matters. Then an economic change caused my income to go from keeping up with a little extra to being unable to keep up. Perhaps there’s a man in this forum who feels guilty because, along with trying your hardest to provide for your family, you also have a hobby to keep yourself sane. And if your hobby like mine is browsing around MR since 2003, then you are bound to come across forum posts that make you feel like even less of a family provider when you compare your perceived life with another’s perceived life. If that is you, I encourage you to with these words: whether you buy your kids the latest and greatest or not, your worth is not based on whether you use Apple Pay Later or you have payments set to automatically pay the balance in full. You don’t even have to look at the account to know if it will clear… you’re important. And don’t let the size of your bank account or the means you provide for your family determine how important you are to your family who loves you.

Forgive any grammar, I'm dead tired and the words are blurring together.
Thank you for the post. Very well written and the sentiments expressed resonate with more people than would admit to it I'd vouch.
One of the best and most empathetic and human ones I have ever read on MacRumours…
👍
 
How about:

Apple a Day Layaway™
Apple a Day™ Payday Loans
Payday loans are high interest. This is no interest, big difference. Still, the one thing I don't get is most people get paid every two weeks so it would make sense to me to make the program two payments per month for two, three, or four months depending on the size of the purchase.
 
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This is clearly an original attempt to copy Amazon & Affirm. Well, at least the UI looks better.

Prediction: No Interest option will be limited to certain products after Apple Pay Later starts to gain popularity.
The no interest part of program is for qualified customers only, so only people who don't need it. If you have bad credit or low income, you will end up paying very high interest because the risk to the lender is greater.
 
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There are in fact people in the US who take out loans for groceries (!).
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/29/dining/buy-now-pay-later-loans-groceries.html

You do not have to be a financial advisor to know that Apple's BNPL version spells additional financial trouble for a LOT of people. Compare this with Germany/Austria where you only take out a loan for housing.

The thing is, it's so much more satisfying and rewarding if you save up for an iPhone, a new laptop or that HomePod than buying it right away. The benefit of this approach is that sometimes along the way you come to realize you don't really need a new gadget. Then you take the money and buy your spouse or kid a gift, or you keep it for emergencies. Don't miss out on those opportunities.
 
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Great. So now I can appear rich enough to have the latest iPhone ultra pro max without being rich. Awesome
 
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There is nothing good about this feature at all. It allows people to make an unconscious financial decision under pressure.

There’s already a lot of a regulatory discussion about ending this in Europe (currently aimed at Klarna and PayPal credit options).

It goes entirely against any form of social responsibility.

Note I work in this sector and am subject to the compliance and reporting regimes. You’d be surprised how difficult this is going to be for companies in the future. It’s difficult to sell financial products at POS end of market as it is. Bringing it to live retail is going to die very quickly.
 
These programs are so dangerous and lead people into a false sense of financial security.

$1000 item ends up looking like "just $250 per month".

Only, $250 per month can be quite a burden for countless people. And then they end up doing the same with other platforms like Amazon, Klarna and the like.

The result; People quickly get overburdened and get stuck with massive penalty fees and fall into a spiral of debt.

Not cool.

Why can't people just save for what they want anymore?
And what gives you the right to say how people budget?
How do you know people get quickly overburdened? Is that everyone?

It's an individual's responsibility to ensure they budget correctly and ensure they can afford any items they purchase, there will always be people who get into debt.

£1,000 ends up looking like 'just £250 per month" - no, that's exactly what it is, not what it looks like. It is £250 per month for 4 months.
 
If you can manage your finances this way, that is great. But the majority of people cannot do this, and small debt can quickly spiral into massive debt and problems.
Again, "the majority", do you have statistics to back up this claim?
Do you know how many people can budge in this way and can't or are you just assuming people can't?
 
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This is clearly an original attempt to copy Amazon & Affirm. Well, at least the UI looks better.

Prediction: No Interest option will be limited to certain products after Apple Pay Later starts to gain popularity.
I hope this as well as AppleCard come to Canada. Barclays has an office with 3 floors right inside the KMPG building on Bay Street & Adelaide in Toronto’s Financial district.

Like come on already Canada and Finance Minister get to it!
 
Not always the case. I will only buy a device I can afford to pay for upfront, however, if I am offered any form of interest free payment plan I will take it. Why wouldn't I? If I can buy a device for £3,000 and pay cash at time of purchase but they offer me a plan of 12 months interest free, which would be £250 a month, then I'd always accept it as it allows me to keep the cash in my account.

But you forgot the credit agency’s annual fee. ;)

If you can manage your finances this way, that is great. But the majority of people cannot do this, and small debt can quickly spiral into massive debt and problems.
Also for those with bad debt already cannot get such an offer.
 
Again, "the majority", do you have statistics to back up this claim?
Do you know how many people can budge in this way and can't or are you just assuming people can't?
A non throughout search, that person might be right.

Most recent articles snapshot, for perspective divide 1 Trillion / 300
Million, around ~$3K if all were split equal:
FCF47B3A-3A21-438E-8464-954A56B63261.jpeg

2792FAF0-C79C-4C87-A55A-D0CCF2911934.jpeg

A year old chart (before all the FED rate hikes) but shows the proportions (53% of credit cards hold a balance):
A8E94F10-23A3-46A5-B1C8-3AA676C6FB15.jpeg

Not even $100K+ earners are off the hook (not a surprise, I have seen articles about $250K earners living paycheck to paycheck):
C207207F-2696-4863-B157-C26511235077.jpeg

Which begs the question, if all things were split evenly (which it isn’t, let’s entertain it) and ~50% of people carry late debt, there are chances that half of the people commenting here do to.

This is only credit card debt mind you, you get another trillion on student loans, mortgages, etc… and those that don’t have a credit card or similar, they could totally be pawning or getting shark loans.
 
I might be way off base… but what if this luxury company with lots of intelligent people and smart leaders (who can predict the financial future far better than I can) knows that the financial stability of the average person is going to be much different in the next few years?

Maybe Apple was a luxury brand that didn’t care about the cost. Hence, when Steve told Ive to make the iMac g3 have a transparent blue case even though it was three times (I think) the typical case cost. But those days are gone. This is now a company that will sell an Apple Watch 3 way past its time or use “old” designs and call it an SE. And instead of someone saying, “Hey, why are they selling old stuff with a new name” we say instead, “hey, they are making products for all price points”...

I work at a nonprofit (a church) that pays for my phone and plan. They want me to be reachable at all times, and I guess it is nice that I got a new iPhone (or whatever phone I wanted to pick). But I also drive a vehicle with 300,000 miles and have to intentionally not buy groceries I would like because I also make 40k a year. So for someone like me, the ability to split something between this month’s paycheck and next month’s paycheck could be a way for me to keep needed purchases on debit without having to resort to another of my credit cards that in the past few years have become more and more needed for even the basic “needs” of life.

I might be an exception. I read a post about people with second homes in other countries with 100+ HomeKit accessories. I also see posts from people who say they bought a MacBook Air just to have it in the living room because the MBP is rendering in the home office. And I admit I am envious. I have nice setup at work, but I wanted so badly for the TD snafu to be true so I could get an MBA half-price and use it at home :)

There are plenty of people who have bought things they couldn’t afford. I admit my guilt. Many people here probably have as well. There are also plenty of people in this country for whom money is virtually not a thought on their minds. They want it. They buy it in cash. And they got there because they worked hard; or they got there because they happened to luck up and got a killer job when their friend got skipped over for the interview.

My encouragement would be to be conservative with comments making fun of options to help the middle/lower class (a group that maybe Apple sees as increasing in the next decade?). Of course, some run up debt just for the fun of it with no intentions of paying it back. There are also those like me who are trying everything they humanly know to provide for their family while still serving in a career that aims to increase the happiness of others before increasing the comfort of our finances. And for those people, something like this could be used responsibly.

Above, someone makes a K-Mart remark. I smiled without offense because when I was a kid going to K-Mart was a big deal. I got to get a $5 toy and then go to the Little Caesar’s cafe in K-Mart and get a little pack of mini crazy bread with my mama. Then after my stepdad murdered my mother when I was ten, and I got a new family, K-Mart clothes turned into clothes from the mall. And my pride grew as well as I became a teenager who wouldn’t wear Walmart clothes… I quickly forgot where I came from--especially considering it wasn’t my own bootstraps that got me where I was. It was a babysitter who was willing to adopt me as her own. I could boast about nothing. It was all due to the gift of another.

A few years ago, I became friends with a homeless man in our town. He would hang out at a local place, and if I were in the area, I would make a point to stop and sit at the table outside with him. That helped me so much. As I got to know Sammy, I learned that he knew far more about life, electronics, engineering, etc., a whole whole whole lot more than I did. What made the difference? Was I smarter or harder working or better working with my hands? No. I often thought about him (he is gone from our town now) and how most of our country is (like him) one blown engine that makes us rely on a friend to get to work, that begins not to be able to make it to work, that loses our job, that loses our rental place and next thing we know we are in a position we never thought we’d be in. It just takes a few missed paychecks for many Americans to end up in the exact same place.

I know MR isn’t a philosophy forum or how to treat people better. But, treating people better includes not saying things about people that are not true, even if they are people we do not know. So while Pay Later might do more hurt than help in the long run, I can feel for those who see it as another way to juggle the increasing cost of living with a flatline income that isn’t keeping up.

I don’t know how I even got off on this. I worked all day, saw my family for about 3 hours tonight, then came back to the office to work through the night on several items with hard deadlines around noon today. I need to log off and get back to my projects after this little mental break. But perhaps this post can be an encouragement to someone. My Apple Card used to be solid white monthly, paying it off in full. Then a few family situations impacted matters. Then an economic change caused my income to go from keeping up with a little extra to being unable to keep up. Perhaps there’s a man in this forum who feels guilty because, along with trying your hardest to provide for your family, you also have a hobby to keep yourself sane. And if your hobby like mine is browsing around MR since 2003, then you are bound to come across forum posts that make you feel like even less of a family provider when you compare your perceived life with another’s perceived life. If that is you, I encourage you to with these words: whether you buy your kids the latest and greatest or not, your worth is not based on whether you use Apple Pay Later or you have payments set to automatically pay the balance in full. You don’t even have to look at the account to know if it will clear… you’re important. And don’t let the size of your bank account or the means you provide for your family determine how important you are to your family who loves you.

Forgive any grammar, I'm dead tired and the words are blurring together.
One of the most humane comments I have seen over here and in general everywhere.

Thanks for your share, hope all gets eventually better.
 
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And what gives you the right to say how people budget?
How do you know people get quickly overburdened? Is that everyone?

It's an individual's responsibility to ensure they budget correctly and ensure they can afford any items they purchase, there will always be people who get into debt.

£1,000 ends up looking like 'just £250 per month" - no, that's exactly what it is, not what it looks like. It is £250 per month for 4 months.
If it is just 250 per month, why haven't they saved 250 for four months in order to buy it with money they actually have?
Hint: Other expenses > any savings rate (= future installment payments). It is insidious.
 
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And what gives you the right to say how people budget?
How do you know people get quickly overburdened? Is that everyone?

It's an individual's responsibility to ensure they budget correctly and ensure they can afford any items they purchase, there will always be people who get into debt.

£1,000 ends up looking like 'just £250 per month" - no, that's exactly what it is, not what it looks like. It is £250 per month for 4 months.
Let's turn the tables on you and ask, what gives you the right to judge my comments in that way?

As you are possibly British (quoting sterling), I'll give you some facts about debt in the UK.

As quoted by The Money Charity:
Per adult this was £34,636, around 106.5% of average earnings. This is up from the revised £34,532 a month earlier. Based on November 2022 numbers, the UK's total interest payments on personal debt over a 12-month period would have been £53,682 million, an average of £147 million per day.


You tell me who is winning? The consumer or the creditor?

Let's examine that. Essentially, we're talking about the unsecured credit market.

In February 2021, unsecured credit topped at £250 billion, across 42.5 million people. That's debt of just over £5,882 per person.

Want to read the report? https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/corporate/woolard-review-report.pdf

Now, according to another paper by PwC, that debt grew by 11% per day. Yes. Per. Day. Or in money terms, £80m.

In the same study, it's noted that renters are more than twice as likely to take out such loans also to pay for essential items, and are more likely to worry about how to repay the debt.


Add to the fact that we are living in a high inflation society with massive increases in the cost of living, lower wage individuals will be more likely to take out unsecured loans, such as iPhones, iPads and accessories which they just don't need. Let's face it. A cheap and cheerful Android phone works just fine for day to day stuff.

Additionally, Apple and other similar companies are pushing these unsecured loans right before Valentines and their marketing people are really great at what they do and offer "deals" at "easy reach", and individuals are easily enticed.

So to sum up, these schemes are dangerous for many individuals.

If you want to read up more, there is a great guide from Citizens Advice:


One commenter mentioned what about mobile contracts, as phones are usually tied into those? And they are right. But mobile contracts are subject to credit checks and there are regulations and safeguards that can actually protect the consumer in these credit programs should things go wrong.
 
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I might be way off base… but what if this luxury company with lots of intelligent people and smart leaders (who can predict the financial future far better than I can) knows that the financial stability of the average person is going to be much different in the next few years?
Thank you for such an insightful post. It made me think differently about this.
 
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Most people in the USA don’t pay the $1,000 up front to get an iPhone. It’s usually financed through the carrier
I cannot comment on how the US works for carrier contracts, but in the UK, mobile contracts run through several lines of credit checks and consumer protections are in place in case a customer cannot pay their bill. Moreover, the phone does not belong to you until you pay it off in full.
 
Payday loans are high interest. This is no interest, big difference. Still, the one thing I don't get is most people get paid every two weeks so it would make sense to me to make the program two payments per month for two, three, or four months depending on the size of the purchase.
I haven't found the terms, but I would hazard a guess that if you miss one of the scheduled payments, the penalties will be eye-wateringly high; And then the spiral commences.
 
TLDR… there is always a say; don't buy what you cannot afford. But I guess sometime things are a need now (not want) but waiting for pay cheque for some people. Some can't afford a loan or can't even get a loan from a bank.

ie. need a computer for school starting next week, but work pay is coming in slowly. The pay later program may benefit that.
Exactly, well said. And “iPhones” are actually far down of a dangerous things, it won’t make you poor.

Things that make you poor:
- Having kids you can’t afford is high up there
- Having a McMansion to impress the neighbors, people that we don’t know and we don’t like. (McMansion = anything above you can afford to buy or rent),
- Accompanied with a side of a leased fancy car and a leased fancy SUV for the wife.
- 50% chance of a divorce, these are darn expensive and slash everything joint at best by half and at worst by “all of it and more” afterwards forever.

It’s also the little things that add up: the daily Starbucks cafe/mocha latte with a side of croissant and others, the afternoon cookie snack, the lunch with the coworkers or student buddies in your case, the weekend bar drinks, the daily smoking, the “Netflixes”, etc

It’s far FAR easier to save up $200+ a month in basically less partying and less eating (we definitely eat more than we need, “75% overweight or worse population” stat confirms so) than trying to gain that with a side job or negotiating a salary increase.

It all really starts in school, trying to impress the peers by getting the latest trinkets, album, cards, etc… at high school with the trending shoes and whatnot to gain acceptance and clout. And then people never grow out of that really… cars, houses, “check my office corner” says the manager person forcing everybody to work from office (so he can show it), “check my snaptiktakograms” says the other, etc

—————
A laptop is something you need, just don’t over buy upgrades and keep it reasonable… people say also that “Macs are unreasonable” due to price, but I haven’t ever found a reliable, lean and neat ever lasting products as these.
I still have a 12 year old MacBook that works even connected to 10+ year old TB display… but it’s useless now (and stuck to High Sierra). Might be luck.
 
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