Apple Pay Launches in Germany

[Sangoma]

Not really needed.
Tap and pay is not any less convenient than ApplePay,

Disagree. I have Garmin pay - always have my watch and phone with me. Not always my wallet.

I'm very glad that Garmin Pay launched and would like to have Apple Pay as an option, too.

 

[lartola]

Not really needed.
Tap and pay is not any less convenient than ApplePay,

Tap and pay with a card may not be any less convenient than tap and pay with a mobile device, but it certainly is a lot less secure than tap and pay with a mobile device using a payment service such as apple pay, garmin pay, etc. When you tap a card you’re transmitting your actual card details (primary account number and expiration date) to the merchant. When you tap a cellphone or smartwatch you transmit the merchant a totally different “card” number (device account number) and expiration date that are unusable without your specific device, to which they are tied, thus protecting you more in case of skimming. Not to mention that it saves you from having to call the bank in case your device is lost or stolen, since you can remotely disable the device and your actual card won’t be compromised. And if it was your card that were compromised instead, and the bank needs to disable it, they won’t have to disable payments from your phone or watch since it has a different “card” number and those payments will continue to work, saving you from being totally unable to make payments until you receive a new card in the mail and activate it. Finally, if it’s a smartwatch you’re using to pay there’s the added convenience of not needing to pull anything out of your pockets.

 

[justperry]

Tap

Tap and pay with a card maybe just as convenient as paying with a phone, but it certainly is a lot less secure than mobile payments such as apple pay, garmin pay, etc. When you tap a card you’re transmitting your actual card details to the merchant. When you tap using a cellphone or smartwatch you transmit the merchant a totally different “card” number and expiration date that are unusable without your specific device, to which they are tied, thus protecting you more in case of skimming. Not to mention that it saves you from having to call the bank in case your device is lost or stolen, since you can remotely disable the device and your actual card won’t be compromised. And if it was your card that were compromised instead, and the bank needs to disable it, they won’t have to disable payments from your phone or watch since it has a different “card” number and those payments will continue to work, saving you from being totally unable to make payments until you receive a new card in the mail and activate it. Finally, if it’s a smartwach you’re using to pay there’s the added convenience of not needing to pull out anything out of your pockets.

I am pretty positive your card information won't get send, that's not how it works, skimming works differently than you think.
If my card gets compromised including skimming I won't lose anything, it's the bank loss, that's how it should be anywhere in this world, think this is not the case in the states though.

As your "there’s the added convenience of not needing to pull out anything out of your pockets' statement, that's just plain silly, I have my card out in no time, before the cashier even asks for it.

Lower your arm, get hand into pocket, open your wallet or wherever it is in, voila, simple hey.
People nowadays.....

Disagree. I have Garmin pay - always have my watch and phone with me. Not always my wallet.

I'm very glad that Garmin Pay launched and would like to have Apple Pay as an option, too.

Me too, and my cards are in my phone case.

 

[lartola]

I am pretty positive your card information won't get send, that's not how it works, skimming works differently than you think.
If my card gets compromised including skimming I won't lose anything, it's the bank loss, that's how it should be anywhere in this world, think this is not the case in the states though.

As your "there’s the added convenience of not needing to pull out anything out of your pockets' statement, that's just plain silly, I have my card out in no time, before the cashier even asks for it.

Lower your arm, get hand into pocket, open your wallet or wherever it is in, voila, simple hey.
People nowadays.....




Me too, and my cards are in my phone case.

Don’t be so sure, don’t be naive, and just look at your receipt next time you pay. How do you think the last four digits of your card number got printed on it? they got there because your card details were transmitted to the merchant’s POS terminal. Most of the number is hidden on the printout and other details too, but all of them are actually sent to the terminal, otherwise it can’t check with the bank to authorize the payment. If your card details get skimmed or compromised in any other way it is indeed the bank’s loss, but it is inconvenient: in the meantime they will have to disable the plastic card and mail you another, during which time you will lose all the ability to make payments from that account. A mobile payment saves you from that since it continues to work.

 

[justperry]

Don’t be so sure, don’t be naive, and just look at your receipt next time you pay. How do you think the last four digits of your card number got printed on it? they got there because your card details were transmitted to the merchant’s POS terminal. Most of the number is hidden on the printout and other details too, but all of them are actually sent to the terminal, otherwise it can’t check with the bank to authorize the payment. If your card details get skimmed or compromised in any other way it is indeed the bank’s loss, but it is inconvenient: in the meantime they will have to disable the plastic card and mail you another, during which time you will lose all the ability to make payments from that account. A mobile payment saves you from that since it continues to work.

If you lose your iPhone it will be inconvenient too...

 

[lartola]

If you lose your iPhone it will be inconvenient too...

If you lose the phone with apple pay or similar you still have the card to use. If you lose the card and don’t have apple pay or similar set up on your phone you’re screwed until the bank sends you another card by mail. What is more inconvenient?

 

[justperry]

If you lose the phone with apple pay or similar you still have the card to use. If you lose the card and don’t have apple pay or similar set up on your phone you’re screwed until the bank sends you another card by mail. What is more inconvenient?

I have more cards.

 

[weckart]

I wonder guys, if there’s a favorite café of yours here in Germany that simply doesn’t accept any kind of card payment- what’s the best way to push them towards it? The bartenders usually just react with a shrug and don’t know what to answer me when I ask them about it. Most of the time they’re Americans themselves who are annoyed by the fact that their bosses didn’t find it necessary to install a reader in the place.

How to put some pressure on these owners so that they bring their place to the 21st century?

Things are changing now in the UK, where cash is on the way out. Here is one reason businesses will eventually change.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46507529

In Sweden, cash represents less than 1% of transactions. Swedes must marvel when they travel to Germany.

 

[robpow]

In Sweden, cash represents less than 1% of transactions.

It's true. The other year the Swedish central bank issued new coins. I still have no idea what they look like.

 

[lartola]

I wonder guys, if there’s a favorite café of yours here in Germany that simply doesn’t accept any kind of card payment- what’s the best way to push them towards it? The bartenders usually just react with a shrug and don’t know what to answer me when I ask them about it. Most of the time they’re Americans themselves who are annoyed by the fact that their bosses didn’t find it necessary to install a reader in the place.

How to put some pressure on these owners so that they bring their place to the 21st century?

There's only one way: by not giving them your money anymore. Vote with your wallet. Just let them know like you did at the bar, and stop going to those places that only accept cash or take cards but have contactless payment disabled (if any places in Germany disable contactless payment at all, which I doubt). Then spread the word among your family, friends, colleagues at work, etc. to do the same. When those merchants start loosing many customers because they don't accept other forms of payment, they will feel compelled to start accepting them. It's the only way to put pressure on the owners of the businesses to make them understand and react. As long as they have enough customers, they simply don't care.

 

[cola79]

I wonder guys, if there’s a favorite café of yours here in Germany that simply doesn’t accept any kind of card payment- what’s the best way to push them towards it? The bartenders usually just react with a shrug and don’t know what to answer me when I ask them about it. Most of the time they’re Americans themselves who are annoyed by the fact that their bosses didn’t find it necessary to install a reader in the place.

How to put some pressure on these owners so that they bring their place to the 21st century?

I don’t visit shops/restaurants that don’t offer card payment.

Think about, your cafe is selling service. They basically fill glasses or cups with beverages or coffee and bring it to your desk. This is such a minimalistic business, that it basically isn’t a real business.

All of this can be done by anyone else or even the customer himself.

So when a shop forces me to do something ancient like getting cash money (every supermarket allows me to buy a bottle of water for 30 Cent and pay with credit card or maestro), they just show that they never understood what their business is about.

A cafe is dependent of the people who come there, but the people are not dependent on this cafe or their products.

Same with small shops. They lose me as a customer completely. You can’t complain about Amazon getting bigger and on the same time put that much energy in stopping people from buying at your place.

 

[lartola]

I don’t visit shops/restaurants that don’t offer card payment.

Think about, your cafe is selling service. They basically fill glasses or cups with beverages or coffee and bring it to your desk. This is such a minimalistic business, that it basically isn’t a real business.

All of this can be done by anyone else or even the customer himself.

So when a shop forces me to do something ancient like getting cash money (every supermarket allows me to buy a bottle of water for 30 Cent and pay with credit card or maestro), they just show that they never understood what their business is about.

A cafe is dependent of the people who come there, but the people are not dependent on this cafe or their products.

Same with small shops. They lose me as a customer completely. You can’t complain about Amazon getting bigger and on the same time put that much energy in stopping people from buying at your place.

Exactly my point, They will only react when they lose enough customers due to not accepting some forms of payment. Otherwise they don’t care.

 

[JTToft]

I think the cultural difference here is that Germans tend to use any kind of cards only for stuff that costs more than they carry around in cash with them.

- Same thing here. Mine and most Danish people's threshold for carrying cash just happens to be 0. I never carry any amount of cash (coins or notes) unless it's been given to me. I simply have no need for it. Cash is heavy and cumbersome.

Maybe 2-3 years ago, but now most stores updated their payment device and almost every store I visit accepts my contactless EC- or VISA-Card.

- That's not been my experience at all. Even petrol stations along motorways are poor, often don't accept contactless (and don't even know what it is), and/or have minimum amounts you must spend to be able to use a card. As recently as this August, I was at a fairly large tourist attraction in Germany and wanted to buy something in the gift shop. The cashier looked at me with a confused look as I didn't have any cash in my hand, and he got even more confused when I asked for card payment. He did eventually accept it, but he had to produce the terminal from under the counter and turn it on first...
Supermarkets have got pretty good at it, though. And that's nice.

Many people here just have a better feeling for money when you actually have to spend it in a physical way. Paying everything with cards gives you less control (no wonder why so many americans are in debt).

- I'm the exact opposite. I only have a feeling for how much I'm spending when I can see the amounts deducted from the balance in my bank account. Cash in my wallet is extra money that doesn't really count. It's so rare that I have any cash at all on me, and when I do it's only when it's been given to me - so it doesn't feel like real money in a way.

I don’t know if there are differences to foreign debit cards but I’ve been primarily using my bank issued ‘Girocard’/Maestro debit card for the vast majority of my daily payments for the last decade. There are a few little cafés, bars or shops that don’t accept any cards but every standard restaurant, retailer, supermarket, drugstore, gas station or whatever has a card terminal

- And it's those "few little cafés, bars or shops" that make everything a huge inconvenience. It means I always have to make sure I have cash on hand when I'm in Germany; otherwise I might simply not be able to purchase the things I want.

 

[chfilm]

Exactly my point, They will only react when they lose enough customers due to not accepting some forms of payment. Otherwise they don’t care.

But how to teach them the correlation between me staying away and their payment method ?

Sadly here in Berlin Neukölln there’s not really a single café option that you can still go to if you want to rely entirely on your card.

 

[lartola]

But how to teach them the correlation between me staying away and their payment method ?

Sadly here in Berlin Neukölln there’s not really a single café option that you can still go to if you want to rely entirely on your card.

Just tell them so before you leave.