Apple Pay Usage Declined on Black Friday Over Last Year Per New Study

[hollersoft]

Best not to ask the cashier whether they support Apple Pay. Just say you're paying with "credit" and go ahead and try it. If it doesn't work, well you'll still need at least one physical card to tap / swipe / insert.

Here in Canada it works most places I go, even though it's still currently limited to Amex. I've used it at various fast food outlets, Crappy Tire, Mark's, London Drugs. A few places like Walmart don't have NFC at all. One purchase over $200 I was asked for a signature but generally it's painless.

 

[aristobrat]

I think Apple can work with the credit processing companies (the ones that provide the terminals and the software to make Pay work) to increase the implementation. They probably already are but you and I know how hard it is to get businesses to upgrade their software

I think Apple's doing a decent job pushing this (and being available) to retailers. Apple had a good presence at Verifone's multi-day Retail Payment Conference in October, and I'm sure they'll be at any similar events held by Ingenico.

My take-away from Verifone's conference was that of the 100+ retailers that attended, only two had EMV implemented in their stores. The focus of most of the other retailers at that conference seemed to be EMV, not NFC.

Apple can do as much as they want, but I think until retailers have EMV rolled out (and are comfortable supporting it), NFC (Apple Pay/Android Pay) is going to take the back seat.

 

[iGeek2014]

And yet Santander still doesn't support Apple Pay so i will continue to not use it (when i would otherwise).

I'm surprised the US arm of Santander don't because I've used it a lot here in the UK. The fact they currently have a 3% bonus (capped at £100 each month through February 2016) for using Apple Pay means I'm using it (even in stores which are contactless but don't qualify for the usual 1/2/3% standard cash back).

 

[cableguy84]

More stores need to accept apple pay, and the maximum spend limit needs to be increased.

Simple really.

 

[MrShoehorn]

I told Petsmart last week that they've lost my business to Petco until they start accepting Apple Pay on their NFC enabled readers. They've had them in the stores for almost a year. There is no excuse for them to not be enabled.

Most retailers are doing a lousy job of dealing with this. Even launch partners. Walgreen's, I'm looking at you. I was in last night picking up a prescription and the woman behind the counter didn't even know that I could use my watch to scan my rewards card. By the time she got the question out about whether I had a card I had already scanned my watch. It was like I had shown her fire for the first time.

Yes and retailers will continue to not enable new features. Many of their readers already support it they just have to test and turn it on. But they won't because it's not a sales driver. When 1000s of people like you stop shopping at their stores they will. But it'll take 1000s sending emails to corporate or 1000s more telling store managers who then won't tell their district managers or much less beyond that.

 

[BruiserB]

Yes and retailers will continue to not enable new features. Many of their readers already support it they just have to test and turn it on. But they won't because it's not a sales driver. When 1000s of people like you stop shopping at their stores they will. But it'll take 1000s sending emails to corporate or 1000s more telling store managers who then won't tell their district managers or much less beyond that.

It probably only takes 5-10 emails to corporate. The couple of places I've written have given me personal responses. And both have implemented it. I'm sure they were in the process anyway but don't underestimate the power of a few emails. So few people actually go through the trouble to write anymore that the few who do get attention.

 

[zubikov]

Been using it at Wegmans, Whole Foods and Trader Joe's. It's actually really cool! Despite my early skepticism, it's really convenient, especially when your rewards card is right there on the phone. Not like paying with a credit card is a terrible drag, but Apple Pay from a user standpoint is so f'n simple it just makes sense.

I'm starting to see that many people are just too lazy to set up their card, or don't care to break the habit of taking out their wallet and paying with a card.

The new requirement for paying with a chip may help Apple Pay and Google Wallet, since the transaction is now slower and requires everyone to break the habit of swiping a card.

 

[andyyardley]

Apple eventually want to REPLACE credit cards. Why in the future would we need an underlying credit card. I think being mindful of this may help us understand the reluctance in many cases.

It's also useless in purchases over £30 (at least here in the UK).

Because somebody has to take the risk for the funds. This is not just fraud from the cardholder but at the retail end too. Apple do not want a piece of this very messy pie.

 

[andyyardley]

After having Apple Pay fail mysteriously at various stores that have supposedly compatible readers, I pretty much gave up on using it. Wasting my time trying to Apple Pay, then having to get my card out anyway is not my style. I do still use it at a couple stores where I KNOW it works reliably, like Walgreens and McDonald's, but that's about it.

Apple really should have worked with retailers more to make sure this tech is reliable before releasing it.

I'm not sure anybody fully understands how complex an eco system this is. Even if the store has compatible readers the readers need to be loaded with the compatible version of the contactless Kernel for the underlying card scheme. Tesco for example in the UK do not have a compatible version of ExpressPay which is the AMEX contactless kernel. My AMEX contactless card works fine as it uses an older version of the spec.

The software kernels aren't actually owned by the terminal manufacturers in most cases but are actually owned by the PSP or gateways, and are implemented based on the EMVCo specs.

Getting the PSPs to support this correctly is a whole different ballgame and nothing to do with the retailer or hardware manufacturers.

 

[kdarling]

It's beyond frustrating because I can never remember which stores take it and which don't.

All these places have the NFC readers but only like 10% take Apple Pay. Even places like Best Buy, not all of their stores take it.

Stores don't have to sign up for Apple (or Google or Samsung) Pay.

They do have to enable their NFC readers and/or get them updated.

Many may not do it because they were part of the MCX consortium. Others might not want to lose the customer data they were getting before via an account tied to your name.

Of course just as with the missing Apple advertiser id, they'll sooner or later figure out how to associate people with their static Apple Pay account number.

 

[rdlink]

Stores don't have to sign up for Apple (or Google or Samsung) Pay.

They do have to enable their NFC readers and/or get them updated.

Many may not do it because they were part of the MCX consortium. Others might not want to lose the customer data they were getting before via an account tied to your name.

Of course just as with the missing Apple advertiser id, they'll sooner or later figure out how to associate people with their static Apple Pay account number.

Agreed except for the last part. If memory serves, isn't the number different for every transaction?

 

[BruiserB]

Agreed except for the last part. If memory serves, isn't the number different for every transaction?

The number itself isn't different. The last 4 digits prints on your receipts and stays the same. I do think there is something that does dynamically change with each transaction...maybe it's the equivalent of the 3 digit CVV security code?

 

[mrcobra92]

The number itself isn't different. The last 4 digits prints on your receipts and stays the same. I do think there is something that does dynamically change with each transaction...maybe it's the equivalent of the 3 digit CVV security code?

It's the CVV on the track. On a regular card, track 1 and 2 have the account number and a value that Yahya account number equals. This number contains many things like the expiration and the service code plus a bunch of other random numbers. Apple pay in MSD mode changes those random numbers each time it's used. EMV mode is completely different.

 

[macduke]

I am sure that it is the retailers. Here in the States, effective 10/1, the retailers are now responsible for fraud if they don't support the "chip and pin" technology. I would say that 50% of the places I go? Still don't have terminals that accept the chip.

Of those that do? Their units largely also support NFC payments. But....

...not only do they have NFC turned off, they have tape and post-it notes covering the spot to insert your chip card. It's beyond ridiculous, but retailers, much like government agencies (schools, etc), are horrible at implementing technology, and often too cheap to hire the right people to do so.

Here they don't even try to cover it up. I'll go to one store and stick my card in "Oh, sorry that doesn't work" and I'll go to the next and magnetically swipe and they'll say "Oh, sorry you have to stick your card in to read the chip." It drives me crazy because I can't keep it straight. I've completely stopped believing that wireless signal icon too because those are almost always turned off save for a few places around town. Sometimes I quickly Google while in line to see if they support Apple Pay because honestly what person can remember all of this?

 

[MH01]

My bank still does not support it in the UK, otherwise I would use it for some purchases

 

[kdarling]

Agreed except for the last part. If memory serves, isn't the number different for every transaction?

Nope, but you're not to blame for thinking that, since it was a widely reported misconception at first.

Reasons the token account number stays the same, include:

• it allows setting a banking id (card prefix) range for tokens.
• they'd run out of numbers if it changed every time,
• keeping the same account token allows for refunds using the same device and current methods, and
• the point of the token is simply so that someone can't use your real account number online or to make a magnetic swipe card.

The token account number itself is not a secret. The secret is is the associated token KEY provisioned during registration.

The key itself is not transmitted with a transaction, but is used by the device's Secure Element processor to create the dynamic CVV or EMV cryptograms transmitted with each purchase. Those are what make the purchase secure, as they cannot be reused.

 

[rdlink]

Nope, but you're not to blame for thinking that, since it was a widely reported misconception at first.

Reasons the token account number stays the same, include:

• it allows setting a banking id (card prefix) range for tokens.
• they'd run out of numbers if it changed every time,
• keeping the same account token allows for refunds using the same device and current methods, and
• the point of the token is simply so that someone can't use your real account number online or to make a magnetic swipe card.

The token account number itself is not a secret. The secret is is the associated token KEY provisioned during registration.

The key itself is not transmitted with a transaction, but is used by the device's Secure Element processor to create the dynamic CVV or EMV cryptograms transmitted with each purchase. Those are what make the purchase secure, as they cannot be reused.

Thanks. Now that you explained it I remember that. It's a nuance that was overlooked by most of the media outlets that were either too dim to understand, or too lazy to try to explain it. However, you still remain "anonymous" inasmuch as your name is not given to the merchant.

Of course, there is the "loyal shopper" conundrum. In order to obtain "discounts" merchants have asked for our information for years via the "clubs" and their inherent tracking mechanisms. If you want that pint of ice cream to be $2.99 instead of $3.99 you're going to have to have an account and sign in at the register. Unfortunately, Apple Pay will not do away with that. In fact, with the advent of merchant loyalty program cards in Apple Pay it's now becoming part of the problem.

I must confess that I begrudgingly participate in the whole perverted process, when I wish it would just go away. It's hard to overlook the fact that my $110 grocery bill could be $92 if I put my phone number into the terminal at the register. But all of us know that the merchant could just lower their prices on everything by a few pennies and get the same result, with no real impact on their bottom line if they were willing to give up the data mining strategy.

 

[TechiEmmanuel]

And yet Santander still doesn't support Apple Pay so i will continue to not use it (when i would otherwise).

Santander does support Apple Pay.

 

[gusapple]

Where I live, a lot of retailers accept Apple Pay. Kroger, Albertsons, and even high-end grocery stores take it. A lot of the fast food chains, Lego store, and department stores take it as well.

For me, I usually decide not to use it because the employees treat it like "I've never seen this done or know how to do this." I usually tell them that they should do things on their end like I was about to swipe a card, but they usually end up calling a manager over. One time I waited for two minutes in the drive thru at McDonald's while a manager explained the process. It is just far too much of a pain for me to do that rather than giving them a card.

 

[kdarling]

I must confess that I begrudgingly participate in the whole perverted process, when I wish it would just go away. It's hard to overlook the fact that my $110 grocery bill could be $92 if I put my phone number into the terminal at the register. But all of us know that the merchant could just lower their prices on everything by a few pennies and get the same result, with no real impact on their bottom line if they were willing to give up the data mining strategy.

With groceries, it's usually okay not to have your own discount card. You just ask the cashier to enter a store card.

However, at places that really do customize deals based on your own spending, you cannot beat belonging to a customer award program.

For example, every week CVS gives me purchase vouchers simply because we buy so many medical items there. And we get customized coupons for things we like to buy. (Like for batteries, which I love around Christmas!) I save many hundreds of dollars each year at that store alone. Other stores give me 20% or 30% discounts, and so forth... discounts which non-award-members do not get.

That's why I don't understand some people's newly found desire to be so secretive where they shop all the time. I think it's a byproduct of companies like Apple touting privacy overall, when there are times that it makes no sense to stay secret.

In real life, most of us WANT the merchant to remember us. Think about going into a restaurant and getting personalized greetings and extra service. The same thing goes for banks, groceries, auto dealers, and you name it. Getting special deals because a merchant KNOWS you and your preferences, is a great way to go through life

 

[rdlink]

With groceries, it's usually okay not to have your own discount card. You just ask the cashier to enter a store card.

However, at places that really do customize deals based on your own spending, you cannot beat belonging to a customer award program.

For example, every week CVS gives me purchase vouchers simply because we buy so many medical items there. And we get customized coupons for things we like to buy. (Like for batteries, which I love around Christmas!) I save many hundreds of dollars each year at that store alone. Other stores give me 20% or 30% discounts, and so forth... discounts which non-award-members do not get.

That's why I don't understand some people's newly found desire to be so secretive where they shop all the time. I think it's a byproduct of companies like Apple touting privacy overall, when there are times that it makes no sense to stay secret.

In real life, most of us WANT the merchant to remember us. Think about going into a restaurant and getting personalized greetings and extra service. The same thing goes for banks, groceries, auto dealers, and you name it. Getting special deals because a merchant KNOWS you and your preferences, is a great way to go through life

Meh. I've never liked them. Long before Apple and others started bringing up personal privacy issues. I've been saying for 20 years that I wish they'd just give me the discount and not make me log into their stupid system when I'm checking out. First of all, I am NOT carrying around loyalty cards for them all, so it's always a matter of having to type in my phone number. Their horrible UI always makes that a chore. And as far as using the card the clerk has behind the counter I usually take advantage of the self checkout when available. So that's not an option.

For the personalized coupons, none of them are smart or sophisticated enough to capture my shopping habits well enough to provide any real benefit to me. Or, the cynical side of me might say that they know exactly how to put things in my face that aren't quite useful to me, thereby giving the appearance of value where there isn't any.

Example for me is Petsmart. I would go in there about once every 6-7 weeks and buy $100+ worth of cat food and treats. They always print out a "great coupon" for me that gives me things like $5 off $50, as long as I use it before the end of the month. Well, the reason I was just in there buying over $100 worth of stuff is because I don't want to come back there for a month and a half. So that coupon goes in the garbage before I even get to the car.

I don't think my favorite bartender recognizing me and setting my vodka soda down in front of me within 30 seconds of my sitting down, or the owner of my regular restaurant seating us at our favorite table and sending out a complimentary appetizer is really comparable to King Soopers (or one of the other many local chains Kroger has consumed) loading my personal information into their national database so they know where to send my useless weekly flyers. I'd rather they just lower their prices a few cents across the board and leave me the Hell alone.

And nobody's hacking into my bartender friend Luke's brain to download my personal details...

 

[jamietshaw]

It would be interesting to get an idea of uptake in other countries. In the UK I use a lot of independent shops (butcher, coffee shop) as well as chains and all but a few have contactless payments and therefore also accept Apple Pay (except one place where it appears to work but doesn’t, for some reason). The £30 limit (imposed by companies such as Visa, I think) is annoying but still, I use Apple Pay about 50% of the time. If shops would make their loyalty cards available on Wallet that would help, because if I have to get a cardboard/plastic card out of my wallet for that, I might as well then pay with my debit card at the same time.

Then most stupid place is the Co-Op supermarket, where you can use Apple Pay but then they print out a receipt and ask you to sign it!