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Apple Pay Website Updated to Suggest Some Partners May Not Make 2014 Rollout Goal

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As the end of the year approaches, Apple today slightly altered its micro site dedicated to Apple Pay to update the status of several of its partnerships. Retailers that teamed up with Apple and plan to implement Apple Pay support in retail stores and apps in the near future are now listed under sections labeled "Coming soon" instead of "Coming later this year."

The minor change in language suggests that many of Apple's Apple Pay partners will not be able to implement Apple Pay support in the last week of 2014, instead rolling out support in the first months of 2015. Many retailers that have chosen to implement Apple Pay may still be working to train employees, update hardware, and swap out point-of-sale systems, leading to variable launch dates.

Just in the last few weeks, multiple partners who were initially listed under the "Coming later this year" category managed to implement support before the end of the year deadline, including Walt Disney World, which will begin accepting Apple Pay later this week, and Ticketmaster, which updated its app to support Apple Pay on Monday.

On Apple's site, retail partners listed under the "Coming soon" headings now include ACME, Albertsons, Anthropologie, Free People, and Urban Outfitters. Walt Disney World continues to be listed, as Apple Pay will not be available until December 24. Upcoming app partners include Starbucks, StubHub, and Tickets.com, with Ticketmaster continuing to be listed despite implementing support earlier this week.

Since its October 20 launch, Apple Pay has proven to be popular with iPhone 6 and 6 Plus users. Despite only being available for six weeks, Apple Pay was responsible for 1 percent of digital payment dollars in November, with the most money being spent at Whole Foods, Walgreens, and McDonald's.

Apple Pay is currently limited to the United States, but according to comments from Visa and a recent job posting, Apple has an Apple Pay team in London working on bringing the payments service to new countries in 2015.

Article Link: Apple Pay Website Updated to Suggest Some Partners May Not Make 2014 Rollout Goal
 

PowerBook-G5

macrumors 65816
Jul 30, 2013
1,243
1,179
The United States of America
I just wish that they could get Target (stores) onboard with  Pay. I thought that Target already has contactless payment machines in stores, so why would they not choose to support  pay?
 
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Menel

macrumors 603
Aug 4, 2011
6,214
1,164
I just wish that they could get Target (stores) onboard with  Pay. I thought that Target already has contactless payment machines in stores, so why would they not choose to support  pay?

Target, Kroger, and CVS have NFC terminals that support.

They just insist on denying secure payments, in order to stock piling information on your purchases, for their internal algorithms and such.
 
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2457282

Suspended
Dec 6, 2012
3,327
3,014
Target, Kroger, and CVS have NFC terminals that support.

They just insist on denying secure payments, in order to stock piling information on your purchases, for their internal algorithms and such.

Someone had posted that CVS was now accepting Apple Pay on another thread. I tried it out Sunday and found that it was not true.

I don't know (actually doubt) if your conspiracy theory is correct. However, I do wish these companies either, roll out CurrentC, or Apple Pay very soon. My guess is that when they do either Apple Pay will win. The fact that they turn off NFC and basically have zero answer for contactless payment is ridiculous.
 
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Menel

macrumors 603
Aug 4, 2011
6,214
1,164
Someone had posted that CVS was now accepting Apple Pay on another thread. I tried it out Sunday and found that it was not true.

I don't know (actually doubt) if your conspiracy theory is correct. However, I do wish these companies either, roll out CurrentC, or Apple Pay very soon. My guess is that when they do either Apple Pay will win. The fact that they turn off NFC and basically have zero answer for contactless payment is ridiculous.

It's the only explanation. They have the hardware and software links in place.

It worked, and they disabled it.
http://www.ibtimes.com/cvs-rite-aid-baffle-payments-industry-decisions-block-nfc-apple-pay-1714093

Because storing those one time use tokens does nothing for their internal tracking algorithms.

See below. I'm not 'conspiracy-theory' this is bad, horrible. I've used credit/debit cards for ages, known this, and accept it.
But for a store to intentionally sacrifice their customers security... should be criminal. Or grounds for VISA/MC to terminate agreements.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/jun/08/supermarkets-get-your-data

Even if you haven't handed over your details and product preferences through a loyalty scheme, it's likely you have used a debit or credit card to pay for your shopping at some point – and this is another way that the supermarkets can track what we buy.

"We know that an anonymised card number paid for a particular basket of groceries one week and how much was spent with the same card number the following week," says a Morrisons spokesperson. "It means we know when customers are lapsing because we won't see their card for a week. We use it to measure the effectiveness of promotions and events."

A RBS Visa debit card being handed to a shop assistant
Supermarkets can use your card details to learn more about you. Photograph: David Levene for the Guardian
When asked whether its customers give permission for their card numbers to be tracked in this way, the supermarket says customers "would only need to opt in" if Morrisons intended to send them any form of communication.

"All the large grocers track payment cards in this way," says Matthew Harrop at data analysis firm emnos. "All your till receipts are linked together using either a known customer identifier – or anonymously in the absence of a loyalty card – to analyse what you're buying and how loyal you are."

Waitrose and Asda also admit analysing aggregated payment card data to monitor "customer shopping patterns" (for example, items purchased) over time. Both stress this is common practice in the retail industry and that card numbers are not connected to an individual or an address. Sainsbury's and Tesco say they do not track or monitor their customers' payment cards.

The supermarkets also want to find out what their customers are doing outside their stores. Waitrose, for example, paid data analytics firm Beyond Analysis to use "aggregated and anonymised data" about shoppers' Visa card transactions to help it decide on new store locations.

Beyond Analysis integrated the Visa transaction data with Waitrose's own data to figure out what proportion of potential customers were buying groceries from other supermarkets, and the general locations of these competitors.

A Waitrose spokesperson says the supermarket would never see details about an individual customer's spending – the data would only show broad trends. Along with Visa, the supermarket emphasises that the work fully complied with the Data Protection Act. Beyond Analysis refused to comment and Waitrose says it no longer works with the firm.

However, both MasterCard and Beyond Analysis still offer data analytics services to UK retailers - which means anonymised, aggregated information about what we are all spending on our credit and debit cards and where we are spending it is potentially up for grabs to the highest bidder.
 
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Jeff Meredith

macrumors member
Mar 9, 2007
80
7
Colorado
MCX, You can't explain that!

I just wish that they could get Target (stores) onboard with  Pay. I thought that Target already has contactless payment machines in stores, so why would they not choose to support  pay?

As stated above. As part of the MCX consortium developing the Invisiware known as CurrentC (in Private Beta, Area 51?). They choose not to enable secure payments. CurrentC is a payment method based on direct ACH transfers from your bank account tied to loyalty programs that will reduce merchants fees.

If you trust your bank account info to Target, Neiman Marcus, Michaels I have some ocean front property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.

This is also true of MCX merchants, 7-11, Best Buy, Circle K, Conoco, Sears that I have seen personally have NFC enabled terminals but deny ApplePay, Google Wallet. Rite-Aid and CVS are also on the list. Even some merchants that are listed on the Mastercard Nearby App which are contractually obligated to support SoftCard have turned them off.

Is it anti-competitive, yes. Is it aiding and abetting hackers. Yes by expanding their potential profit. Is it exposing them to additional liability if they get hacked. Absolutely. I would love to be on the jury where they explain this. I'd bring popcorn.

I have seen a law firm pursuing a class-action lawsuit. And I hope they are successful. Or CurrentC gets 0 traction and they just turn on NFC. They are supposed to turn on ChipAndPin credit card capability by October of 2015 so hopefully the wait won't be too long. Since Apple Pay is pretty much based on ChipAndPin with a fingerprint replacing the Pin, it should be an automatic feature.
 
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Michael Scrip

macrumors 603
Mar 4, 2011
6,123
7,714
NC
They choose to partner with CurrentC.

And that choice will pay off... NOT

CurrentC hasn't even been formally launched yet and it's already antiquated. QR codes.... really? I'm sure the folks at MCX were excited about developing CurrentC... but I'm guessing they got their teeth kicked in when Apple announced ApplePay.

Now the stores who made the deal with CurrentC have to live with that for a while... or face penalty. I wonder if any of them regret their decision already?

2015 will be the year CurrentC launches. Let them have their experiment. But I'm curious as to how many stores will solely use CurrentC in 2016 and beyond.
 
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Jeff Meredith

macrumors member
Mar 9, 2007
80
7
Colorado
Albertson's

For Albertsons in particular this is a huge job and it's difficult to implement a change of this scope during the Christmas holidays. If you think of 10-20 terminals including self service and service counter at every store multiplied by the number of stores that's a lot of terminals.

Albertsons will become my grocery store of choice when this is completed. I check in once a month to my local one and chat with the clerks to gauge progress. Probably due for a repeat visit.
 
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AllieNeko

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2003
1,004
57
For Albertsons in particular this is a huge job and it's difficult to implement a change of this scope during the Christmas holidays. If you think of 10-20 terminals including self service and service counter at every store multiplied by the number of stores that's a lot of terminals.

Albertsons will become my grocery store of choice when this is completed. I check in once a month to my local one and chat with the clerks to gauge progress. Probably due for a repeat visit.

Don't bet on Albertson's ever happening - they're merging with Safeway, and some stores are changing ownership. Who knows what will play out.
 
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jayducharme

macrumors 68040
Jun 22, 2006
3,937
4,008
The thick of it
I was doing Christmas shopping at my area mall, and I was surprised that most of the retailers there have no NFC capability at all. I did use it at Macy's. Apple's own implementation of Apple Pay is interesting: NFC is built into the swipe-card case attached to the iPod Touch the associates carry. Those were the only two stores in the entire mall where I saw NFC.

Now if only more local banks would get on board with Apple Pay so I can use it with my debit card...

EDIT: I forgot -- there was one other store with NFC: Sports Authority. Apple Pay worked there.
 
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dannyyankou

macrumors G4
Mar 2, 2012
10,069
19,159
Westchester, NY
I just wish that they could get Target (stores) onboard with  Pay. I thought that Target already has contactless payment machines in stores, so why would they not choose to support  pay?

As of now, Target's only plan is a CurrenC rollout in early 2015. But their employee magazine hinted that there may be more announcements about Apple Pay. So who knows, it might happen.
 
Comment

AllieNeko

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2003
1,004
57
I was doing Christmas shopping at my area mall, and I was surprised that most of the retailers there have no NFC capability at all. I did use it at Macy's. Apple's own implementation of Apple Pay is interesting: NFC is built into the swipe-card case attached to the iPod Touch the associates carry. Those were the only two stores in the entire mall where I saw NFC.

Now if only more local banks would get on board with Apple Pay so I can use it with my debit card...

Your mall doesn't have Zumiez, Aeropostale, or American Eagle?

Why would you want to shop with a debit card? You have far fewer protections. Just pay your credit card off in full every month. Debit cards are a horrid deal for consumers.
 
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kdarling

macrumors P6
It worked, and they disabled it.
http://www.ibtimes.com/cvs-rite-aid-baffle-payments-industry-decisions-block-nfc-apple-pay-1714093

Because storing those one time use tokens does nothing for their internal tracking algorithms.

Apple Pay does NOT use a one time account token.

Like any EMV payment, it uses one-time authentication / authorization codes, but that's a different topic and mostly about preventing replay attacks.

The device token account number itself does not change. So a store can still do anonymous tracking as per your quoted article... and even non-anonymous tracking (if you use a loyalty card or give your phone number).

-- Everyone wants data:

With Apple Pay, the banks also still get to collect your purchase info and use it both as anonymous aggregate data to sell to ad agencies, and as clues to privately form a personal credit risk dossier on you.

Personally I think that stores wanting to collect info on what their customers like and don't like... so they can improve... is nothing in comparison to the analysis that CC companies do to protect their money.

What you buy, where you shop may affect your credit
 
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Robert.Walter

macrumors 68000
Jul 10, 2012
1,648
1,787
Re Europe:

as mentioned in my comments on another article, I bought an iPhone 6 last week and have been actively using Pay here in Switzerland (the two big grocery chains CoOp and Migros as well as IKEA are on line, but curiously Manor and none of the gas stations I surveyed are NFC equipped except BP which is only for Master Card tap n pay, as is McDonalds and a few other stores like Jumbo).

All one needs to do to activate it is to have a U.S.-based credit card and then switch your region in settings to United States. Then in passbook you will see the Pay sign in box. After activating your card you can change region back to whatever and it will still work.

Update: although both ikea and coop had previously processed several smaller charges via Apple pay, I have seen ikea not provide the value to the phone for a 500$+ transaction and coop pass the value and the phone claim the payment went through for a 100$ transaction which did not show as paid on the cashier's end. I'm beginning to wonder if there is an upper limit to what will be processed (100$ limit?) at this time. Guess I'll have to carry plastic as a backup for a while yet. Checked with Amex and visa and neither card was blocked.

Happy shopping!

Ps are any other U.S. expats using Apple pay like I am?

----------

As of now, Target's only plan is a CurrenC rollout in early 2015. But their employee magazine hinted that there may be more announcements about Apple Pay. So who knows, it might happen.


Next announcement in Target's employee mag: "CurrentC implemented and yep, we don't need Pay."
 
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roadbloc

macrumors G3
Aug 24, 2009
8,784
213
UK
I don't understand why the UK hasn't seen any :apple:Pay love yet. I've been using NFC to pay for my stuff for a good couple of years now from quite a wide range of stores. The infrastructure is pretty much ready here.
 
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Robert.Walter

macrumors 68000
Jul 10, 2012
1,648
1,787
I don't understand why the UK hasn't seen any :apple:Pay love yet. I've been using NFC to pay for my stuff for a good couple of years now from quite a wide range of stores. The infrastructure is pretty much ready here.

Issue is mostly that Apple has to conclude agreements with the banks behind the credit cards, that has been ongoing in the USA with most of the important banks already signed up. That and the U.S. has been a trial market for working out the kinks before a general launch is made.
 
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roadbloc

macrumors G3
Aug 24, 2009
8,784
213
UK
Issue is mostly that Apple has to conclude agreements with the banks behind the credit cards, that has been ongoing in the USA with most of the important banks already signed up. That and the U.S. has been a trial market for working out the kinks before a general launch is made.

I'm unsure why agreements with banks are needed. My BlackBerry supports NFC payments from all banks, doesn't even ask, just fill in the card details and you're away. My friend uses an app from his bank to be able to do it and I think there are other apps too (on Android at least) that provide the function.
 
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kdarling

macrumors P6
Re Europe:
(snip)
All one needs to do to activate it is to have a U.S.-based credit card and then switch your region in settings to United States. Then in passbook you will see the Pay sign in box. After activating your card you can change region back to whatever and it will still work.

The first part of the activation overseas is well known... but that's the first I've read about being able to switch the region _back_ after activation.

Good info! Thanks!

I'm unsure why agreements with banks are needed.

In reverse order of importance:

2. A bank or its processor must support EMV tokenization processing, and set up the Apple specific method to register new cards.

NOTE: For the hundreds of smaller banks who don't want to invest in tokenization themselves, Mastecard or Visa or Amex will happily provide that service for "only" $.025 (two and a half cents) per transaction. Smaller banks have to decide if the extra cost of this and the Apple fees are worth it or not.

1. Apple will not cooperate with a bank (at least, in the US) unless they agree to give Apple a percentage of each transaction.

The problem is, the amount that Apple is taking from US banks is far more than EU banks will be able to afford if new EU fee caps go into place.

In the US, out of each $100 purchase, about $2 goes to fees. Out of that $2, the banks pay Apple about 20 cents.

With an EU fee cap, out of each $100, only about 30 cents would go to fees. No way the banks could afford to give Apple 20 cents of that. It would have to be more like 2 cents.

It's not even clear that EU banks have any incentive to pay Apple. People outside the US already use EMV NFC payments, and there is no need to bribe Apple away from competing payment methods (like CurrentC or Softcard) as there was in the US.
 
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ttss6

macrumors 6502
Mar 28, 2014
333
58
California
I wish Starbucks would integrate their rewards card with :apple: Pay so I can pay with Touch ID instead of scanning the Passbook barcode. The reader usually doesn't work on the first try. On the other hand I've had no problems yet with :apple: Pay.
 
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dontwalkhand

macrumors 603
Jul 5, 2007
5,583
1,755
Phoenix, AZ
Don't bet on Albertson's ever happening - they're merging with Safeway, and some stores are changing ownership. Who knows what will play out.

No problems there as it is Albertsons buying Safeway. Hopefully this means that Apple Pay hits Safeway too.

----------

I was doing Christmas shopping at my area mall, and I was surprised that most of the retailers there have no NFC capability at all. I did use it at Macy's. Apple's own implementation of Apple Pay is interesting: NFC is built into the swipe-card case attached to the iPod Touch the associates carry. Those were the only two stores in the entire mall where I saw NFC.

Now if only more local banks would get on board with Apple Pay so I can use it with my debit card...

I too used it at the mall...

Apple Store
Aeropostale
Body Shop
Macy's
Zumiez
Industrial
Lego store
Rubios

And more I don't even remember. I just try it everywhere now, logo or not, and 6/10 times it works. Hopefully it'll be 9/10 by the end of next year.

----------

I'm unsure why agreements with banks are needed. My BlackBerry supports NFC payments from all banks, doesn't even ask, just fill in the card details and you're away. My friend uses an app from his bank to be able to do it and I think there are other apps too (on Android at least) that provide the function.

The bank needs to be involved due to the tokenization process that's needed to generate a device account number and the one time use codes. Also those apps, you sure they're safe like Apple Pay? Or do they actually pass off your existing credit or debit card numbers to the NFC reader?
 
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firewood

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2003
7,933
1,187
Silicon Valley
I'm unsure why agreements with banks are needed.

So they can get the bank to cover your ApplePay without you giving the merchant your card details.

My BlackBerry supports NFC payments from all banks, doesn't even ask, just fill in the card details ...

And it then gives all those details to the merchant to track or steal/leak/misuse.
 
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Robert.Walter

macrumors 68000
Jul 10, 2012
1,648
1,787
I'm unsure why agreements with banks are needed. My BlackBerry supports NFC payments from all banks, doesn't even ask, just fill in the card details and you're away. My friend uses an app from his bank to be able to do it and I think there are other apps too (on Android at least) that provide the function.

Based on my understanding from your description, I would say that during the payment process your blackberry and your friend's apps leak much more personsl credit and private information to the merchant than Pay does (Pay leaks nothing.)
 
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IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,889
1,478
Palookaville
No problems there as it is Albertsons buying Safeway. Hopefully this means that Apple Pay hits Safeway too.

It might called a merger, but more accurately, Safeway is being purchased by Cerberus Capital Management, the parent company of Albertsons. Cerberus owns a number of companies, including Albertsons. Part of the deal is selling nearly 150 Safeway, Von's and Albertsons stores to Haagan, a small chain in Washington state. I believe Cerberus is not planning on changing any existing store branding. So, what all of this means for ApplePay in the big grocery chain stores is not clear. All we know for sure is the trend is towards fewer and larger chains marches on.
 
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