Apple Pay: WTF is going on with new POS systems?

benji888

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Sep 27, 2006
1,741
341
United States
{I'm posing this as both a question if anyone knows what is going on behind the scenes, and, yes, a rant.}

I've had more trouble in 2019 using Apple Pay than in the past....

1) Some places I've been able to use Apple Pay before, not able to now.
2) Some places have gone back to swipe only, and, many restaurants/food places are still swipe only (WTF?)
3) two scenarios: same POS (updated?) OR they have a new POS system
...I was previously able to use Apple Pay for my MC, (PayPal business debit), and run it as credit, I am now unable to use Apple Pay for that card and run as credit, the machine will NOT let me use it without entering a PIN.
...HOWEVER, I am able to use the card w/chip reader, and able to hit enter when it asks for my PIN and it runs it as credit!

????WTF???? It is the same exact card, should be able to use it the same way with or without Apple Pay, I should not be restricted to using a PIN for Apple Pay, WTF gives? (More than one place for this). This is unacceptable!


My two concerns are:

1) I do not want to enter, nor should I need to enter, my PIN number. (If forced to do so, I'd rather sign than PIN).
2) I only get rewards if this card is run as credit and not as debit.

(I also can't stand having to sign when using Apple Pay, it is only because some merchants use banks that require a signature or PIN no matter what, ...gawd this country has some very old people that just can't seem to move forward.)


Now, with all that, I do have to say, I have been able to use Apple Pay at more places overall, however, some places finally get NFC capability only to not let us use Apple Pay, only Samsung or whatever. ...Some chains are inconsistent and can use AP at some locations, but, not others.

One surprise is Goodwill, a thrift store mind you, not full retail merchants like above, is using a POS system now that uses iPad Minis and their new little POS terminals accept Apple Pay! No issues here, however, these are one of the new terminals I've come across, (in other places as well), where Apple Pay has to be selected as a payment option first, before NFC is turned on, then it works just fine, (odd).


I just don't get what is taking so effing long for merchants to get Apple Pay up and running, it's literally taking years and years. One movie cinema I go to changed their POS system last year...I used to be able to use Apple Pay, now they are swipe only! (WTF?).

Have merchants been given an extension to 2020 for having to use chip/NFC?
 

CTHarrryH

macrumors 68020
Jul 4, 2012
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746
I can't answer your specific questions but I don't think ApplePay is a high priority for many merchants. I have found that if the rest of the terminal works but the reader needed to sense the iPhone doesn't they don't bother fixing the terminal for a while. I have also found places that say I can't use a debit card - they only accept the credit card - opposite of what you are finding.
ApplePay is great but I wouldn't go out without my real card yet
 

zorinlynx

macrumors 603
May 31, 2007
5,531
6,474
Florida, USA
It's pretty maddening! If the logo is there, Apple Pay should work. Period.

One positive thing though is that US banks are starting to issue contactless cards. My Chase credit card supports contactless now. If people start using that, merchants will be pressured to fix it and Apple Pay uses the same system so it will benefit as well.

We can only hope!
 

MisterSavage

macrumors 68000
Nov 10, 2018
1,537
1,242
The one that irks me the most is gas stations are usually swipe still.

I've gotten to where I'll always alert the cashier I want to use Apple Pay in case they need to enable it.
 

CTHarrryH

macrumors 68020
Jul 4, 2012
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746
I can't remember but there is some 'big" issue with gas stations - don't know if it gas pump technology or ? But there was something a few months ago about it being a while off
 

benji888

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Sep 27, 2006
1,741
341
United States
I read a while back that gas stations have more time to upgrade to chip readers, until 2020...though, maybe that’s been extended since some retail merchants have gone back to swipe only, not sure how they get away with that unless retailers have gotten an extension also.
 

lartola

macrumors 6502a
Feb 10, 2017
512
156
The one that irks me the most is gas stations are usually swipe still.

I've gotten to where I'll always alert the cashier I want to use Apple Pay in case they need to enable it.
Actually, sit down restaurants in the US are even more upsetting. No only are many of them still swipe only, but the overwhelming majority of the sit down restaurants operating in the US (over 80%) STILL HAVE TO TAKE THE PATRONS’ CARDS OUT OF THEIR SIGHT to process the payment. It’s been ages since restaurants stopped doing that in other places such as Europe, Canada, or even Mexico. Why has no one bothered to put regulations in place in the US to force restaurant owners to bring payment to the table? taking cards away is a huge security loophole.
 
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ecschwarz

macrumors 65816
Jun 28, 2010
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I think it also has something to do with you using a debit card. I've run into issues where some terminals want a PIN and won't let me run my Square Cash card as credit (a Visa). Outside of that, I've run into less issues overall in the past few months.

One big change is that Visa stopped allowing merchants to run cards as MSD (magstripe data) contactless. This is an older method that Apple Pay does support, but they'd rather have merchants move to EMV contactless (more secure and also supported by Apple Pay). Some cards in Apple Pay only did one or the other earlier, which caused some problems (i.e. an Amex card would read, but a Discover wouldn't). The change forced some merchants to mess with their terminal software and a few things broke, especially on certain types of cards temporarily and/or they turned things off for a bit (some Burger Kings, JCPenney). Once everyone has EMV contactless working, that should make things easier (typically if you look on the receipt of a transaction and see AID and then some numbers, that means it's EMV contactless, but no guarantees that it will always print).

As for places going back to swipe, I'd hope this isn't the case (going back to just chip is a possibility, but lazy). It seems the Toast POS systems have no provision for contactless and they've been popping up more and more in restaurants.

Finally, regarding gas stations, I'm seeing more and more contactless readers on the pumps, but a few instances where they're not working yet or are broken and nobody's made an effort to fix them. I have a handful of local gas stations that I frequent with working ones that I use and hope that someone is analyzing the data for those reads. :)
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I can't remember but there is some 'big" issue with gas stations - don't know if it gas pump technology or ? But there was something a few months ago about it being a while off
I think it has to do with some not having the adequate infrastructure (cabling) connecting the pumps to the building and I've also heard older pumps without the ability to add other forms of payment.
 

tmiw

macrumors 68020
Jun 26, 2007
2,137
463
San Diego, CA
As for places going back to swipe, I'd hope this isn't the case (going back to just chip is a possibility, but lazy). It seems the Toast POS systems have no provision for contactless and they've been popping up more and more in restaurants.
I've seen one or two places go back to being swipe only, but it's hardly common. Once a business starts accepting EMV, they tend not to go backwards.

As for Toast, I feel like restaurants in general (and possibly some merchants in other industries) don't want customers handling the payment process for whatever reason*. For them, Toast (and the newer Clover Station) is a dream come true, especially considering that most other POS solutions require use/purchase of a PIN pad at minimum to get EMV.

* I suspect it's a combination of cultural factors and the impression that they can get more people through if the cashier/server runs cards for customers. I'm not sure about the former but there's enough lack of standardization in terms of how US terminal software/hardware works that I wouldn't be surprised if it is faster.