Apple Planning November Launch of Apple Pay in Canada

[paulsdenton]

I live about 18 miles from the border and the only stores in our area that take ApplePay are the McDonalds. Nearest drug store that takes it is 50 miles away in Littleton, NH. Our CVS, Kinneys and Rite Aid do not accept it.

May end up doing more shopping across the line, especially in Sherbrooke, which is closer to us than any city of that size in the US.

Canada is 'way ahead of us in using NFC and in using chip credit cards, so probably more places will take it.

Only downside is the TPS and TPQ! Sales taxes much higher than in USA.

 

[Peterg26]

No plans for Australia, Apple?
Arguably we use contactless payment systems more than any other country in the world...

I would say there isn't a business in Australia that doesn't have contactless terminals, so don't come and visit with your old card and expect to sign they're not accepter anymore.

 

[ErikGrim]

No plans for Australia, Apple?
Arguably we use contactless payment systems more than any other country in the world...

Baffling that Australia wasn't priority one with our penetration of contactless payments for years.

 

[V.K.]

I would say there isn't a business in Australia that doesn't have contactless terminals, so don't come and visit with your old card and expect to sign they're not accepter anymore.

does this include small businesses like restaurants? if so that's very impressive.
In Canada contactless terminals are very common in bigger stores and chains (supermarkets, coffee shops, gas stations, drug stores, movie theaters etc) but very few mom-and-pop shops and restaurants have them.

 

[pjamieson]

Canada is the same, it's rare to see a machine that doesn't accept contactless cards

I think that he is Canadian ..dude
The push for Apple was to get it installed in the US 1st... but like most
US businesses they still have not upgraded their systems to NFC or Chip card yet.

 

[pjamieson]

Is Apple Pay going to cost us more?

Apple wants to charge the banks for their use of the new payment system.
Who do you think will really be charged for the use of it??
Yes, US ..
The banks will as always pass any extra costs back to the users and or the stores that support the payment system.
Apple and the banks win, we lose .. Ya Apple (and associated banks!!)

 

[Keirasplace]

I live about 18 miles from the border and the only stores in our area that take ApplePay are the McDonalds. Nearest drug store that takes it is 50 miles away in Littleton, NH. Our CVS, Kinneys and Rite Aid do not accept it.

May end up doing more shopping across the line, especially in Sherbrooke, which is closer to us than any city of that size in the US.

Canada is 'way ahead of us in using NFC and in using chip credit cards, so probably more places will take it.

Only downside is the TPS and TPQ! Sales taxes much higher than in USA.

If your a tourist I think you can be reimbursed for one of those taxes, though it is kind of bitch to do it, so many don't even try (at least you could in the past, maybe this has changed).

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Apple wants to charge the banks for their use of the new payment system.
Who do you think will really be charged for the use of it??
Yes, US ..
The banks will as always pass any extra costs back to the users and or the stores that support the payment system.
Apple and the banks win, we lose .. Ya Apple (and associated banks!!)

Apple charges 0.15% and this is already included in the merchant fee that's that's 2-3%.

There is a lot of opposition from merchants to raising that fee, so the banks are absorbing it (because they think they'll save more on fraud prevention).

 

[ZCT]

Why rightly so. The UK banks are money grabbing shysters!?

And the basis of the 'unnamed' bank argument is null and void as no data is collected by apple - "So when you go to a physical business and use Apple Pay, Apple doesn’t know what you bought, where you bought it, or how much you paid for it. The transaction is between you, the merchant, and your bank."

And as for security. No other payment method is as secure. Period.

Also. Doesn't really have anything to do with the banks - If barclaycard or Visa implement it. and they will then that's that.

I agree.

It's all about money and control. The banks are terrified that they might lose some angle they might have to squeeze money out of everything they do.

Apple Pay is amazing, so convenient, so secure. And unlike the US, most terminals already have the ability to accept contactless pay.

 

[murdoc2k]

I hope apple pay does come to Canada soon. I don't like carrying my credit card around. I've been waiting for this since I've purchased the iPhone 6 last year.

Of course I can see why the banks would be weary of this payment system, but it's certainly a step up for Canadian consumers. We have the infrastructure. We just need them to flip the switch.

The largest hurdle to any service launch by apple is always the agreement with large venders no matter TV, Music, and now the Bank industry.

 

[stuffradio]

In other news, Apple is releasing iTunes Radio March 2014 in Canada. I don't believe it just because they say it.

 

[dampfnudel]

Well lets looks at Siri. Its available for how long? And just recently gained Danish, but it's sold officially in Denmark of years. We even have online apple store.

Keep rationalizing. You are doing great.

I can appreciate that you and others are pissed that it will probably take close to 2 years to get Apple Pay. I'm actually waiting myself but it's because I still have a 5s. I'm just trying to say (like others have) that you can't put all of the blame on Apple. I understand smaller markets like Denmark usually have to wait years for services/features from Apple and that it's frustrating. My own family in Denmark have complained about how long they have to wait for features/services from US companies, Netflix for example which Denmark now has.

Anyway, maybe you can have some solace in knowing that the majority of iPhone 6 owners in the US don't use Apple Pay that much, if at all. For many, old habits seem to die hard. In a couple of years, I expect a lot more people will be using it, including you and me...hopefully.

 

[kdarling]

Apple charges 0.15% and this is already included in the merchant fee that's that's 2-3%.

There is a lot of opposition from merchants to raising that fee, so the banks are absorbing it (because they think they'll save more on fraud prevention).

Apple also charges 0.5 cents per debit card transaction.

Currently, Interac charges its members 0.6 cents. So if Apple dealt with Interac, those fees would have to almost double. Can't see that happening.

If Apple wants money from payment processors further up the line, who get about 5 cents per transaction, they still want too much at 10% of that.

I'm sure the UK, Germany and other countries in Europe will get Apple Pay in 2016, if they don't get it this year. European governments, banks and regulations can be a hindrance for Apple so don't direct all/most of the blame toward them.

It's even worse in Europe, where pending laws might limit fees to a point where nobody could pay Apple the amount they get in the US.

Moreover, banks that have been using chip&PIN see no reason to pay Apple for implementing standards like EMV and tokenization.

I don't get it, there isn't actually any mention of what they are concerned about with "security"

Apple has explicitly stated multiple times that they do not collect customer info and have no interest in doing so.

For contactless purchases, Apple Pay collects location and time of purchase. I think they could use this to provide a map of Apple Pay compatible merchants. For in-app payments, Apple Pay collects app, merchant, amount, time info.

However, the banks are not worried about just the info that Apple directly collects. Apple also demands information back from the banks. From a copy of an Apple Pay bank contract:

Beyond fees, the contract also requires issuers to produce, through the card network, an extensive set of statistics for Apple regarding their Apple Pay activity, including nearly three-dozen categories of quantifiable information.

Categories include number and dollar volume of credit and debit activity, average ticket, breakdown of transactions between in-store and in-app usage, and top 100 merchants by charge volume.

Digital Transactions

(When Apple says they don't collect info during a purchase, they're telling a truth, but not the whole truth. They're not collecting personalized or general purchase info themselves, but they're still getting tons of useful purchase information fed back to them.)

 

[SlCKB0Y]

Yes the Apple system is more secure than the current NFC implementations which are essentially just digital copies of your single credit card. The Apple pay system (more Vista & MasterCard) uses tokens which are much more secure.

Google Wallet uses tokenization as well.

 

[Gsmaniac]

I don't understand why Apple can't by-pass the banks and just somehow charge the credit card that is associated with iTunes account. Wouldn't that be easier? That would mean it would work worldwide.

 

[cub850G2]

Starting March 2016, Costco will drop AMEX for Visa (exclusive, with primary visa partner being Citibank). Costco's business arm is heavily promoting the sale of Chip/NFC card readers (but is a laggard to install them in its own stores. Wonder what is the reason behind the installation delay as they only have 6m to get compliant by updating their "Victorian-Era+100" swipe readers.)

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At the Kroger Co., this level of ignorance extends to the store manager level. I contacted Kroger corporate to find if they had any timetable for implementing Pay (they play coy, but they don't) and mentioned that their local manager had remarked "Kroger is always the last to get new tech"; the Kroger corporate person asked me to identify the manager. I declined to do so. LoL.

Costco already has Verifone MX915's installed that come with contactless on by default, but I believe they then turned it off. Like so many other places here that do that.. The grocery stores owned by Kroger around here are still using old MX870's some with EMV slots, and some without them, and they are sure taking their time waiting to update them to the MX915 so I can agree, Kroger is slow... Canadians have so many more places to actually use Apple Pay at then we do, as many places like BK, Dairy Queen, and Starbucks do no take it here, but you go into Canada and they do.

 

[imacalot]

meh. Apple pay only works at walgreens and no where else. It'll eventually fizzle out.

 

[Crzyrio]

Please elaborate on what this "legitimate" concern is ... Please don't cite the set-up authentication process which I understand to have been tightened up. (U.S. Bank for example, required the user to call in, and has since added the requirement that the caller verify the balances of their last two statements.)

The set-up authentication process still is the weakest point of the system. Not all banks across the US have a second authentication method yet. And it continues to be the only place in the entire system where we see the entry of fraud.

If banks are able to put a stop to this then Apple Pay will be almost a fraud free system right now.

 

[bigchrisfgb]

A problem with the UK banks maybe the £20 spending limit. Apple may want to get rid of it for their Apple pay like in the USA, where as the banks may want to keep it.

 

[dampfnudel]

A problem with the UK banks maybe the £20 spending limit. Apple may want to get rid of it for their Apple pay like in the USA, where as the banks may want to keep it.

I can understand why UK banks would want to keep their liability to a minimum, but Apple realizes that capping the spending limit to £20 would also limit Apple Pay's utility.

 

[Altis]

We already have NFC terminals and credit cards.

The thing is, in Canada you can just tap your credit card (and I think debit cards now too) for purchases up to $50. So when you're out for coffee or a bite to eat, Apple pay is less convenient than just tapping your card/wallet.

Purchases >$50 aren't as frequent so the chip/PIN system isn't that bad. I'd rather they just do NFC cards with PIN over $50, honestly.

 

[bigchrisfgb]

I can understand why UK banks would want to keep their liability to a minimum, but Apple realizes that capping the spending limit to £20 would also limit Apple Pay's utility.

Which is why there could be a disagreement. The banks wants a spending limit on Apple pay purchases, Apple doesn't.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

I don't understand why Apple can't by-pass the banks and just somehow charge the credit card that is associated with iTunes account. Wouldn't that be easier? That would mean it would work worldwide.

To name a few reasons...
1. US and/or international regulators would likely not let Apple since they are not an ACH or bank.
2. Apple does not want to deal with all the different currencies and exchange rates.
3. Apple does not want to get in the middle of customer disputes, returns, exchanges, etc.
4. Apple would then need to collect transaction information which is exactly what differentiates ApplePay from others.
5. Apple would likely be a greater target for hackers since their systems would store transaction information.
6. Apple would likely have to assume some of the fraud liability.

There are likely more reasons, but those listed should be convincing enough.

 

[AppleInLVX]

Random fees? It's all published pretty clearly - just keep a minimum balance if you don't want to pay fees or switch to Tangerine / PCF..

Oh, the fees are published all right. They appear as "Service fee" and "Monthly Fee". Highly specific. I can't get past the thinking that they are charging me when no one is providing a service. Everything is computerized and automated, and they rake in the cash. If they wanted to be honest, they'd charge me a "Computer and network maintenance fee" and make it whatever my share is of keeping their systems up to date and running. Divide that among all the users, and I'd say we're talking pennies, not dollars. Something commensurate to the laughable interest rate they grant me. There's no such thing as a free ride for a minimum balance at Royal. The best it gets is buying a package which allows you unlimited banking but costs you over $150 annually.

I do have much of my savings in with Tangerine already, but for day to day I still use Royal. Last time I checked, no place is better here anyway.

Thieves. Almost better to keep cash under my mattress.

...it appears I am bitter. Meh.

 

[Rudy69]

Starting March 2016, Costco will drop AMEX for Visa (exclusive, with primary visa partner being Citibank). Costco's business arm is heavily promoting the sale of Chip/NFC card readers (but is a laggard to install them in its own stores. Wonder what is the reason behind the installation delay as they only have 6m to get compliant by updating their "Victorian-Era+100" swipe readers.)

I'm in Canada, here Costco dropped AMEX for Mastercard last year :/ I was sad they didn't go for Visa

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I've used paypass at Shoppers any time I've shopped there. What if you just tap when you say "visa"?

It didn't work but last time I tried was probably 6 months ago

 

[kdarling]

Which is why there could be a disagreement. The banks wants a spending limit on Apple pay purchases, Apple doesn't.

The limits are not specifically about Apple Pay.

They're about PIN-less contactless transactions in general being viewed by the banks as less secure.

They love them for encouraging more low-price spending, though. (I've read that contactless boosts many people's small purchases by about 20%)