Apple Planning 'Something Really Different' for New Mac Pro

[Xiroteus]

Solution: If you can afford a Mac Pro, you can afford an external optical drive. For the 95% of the time you're not reading/writing discs, you can (wait for it)... put it away.

It would be better put away inside the desktop machine. It should just be an option as this is suppose to be a pro computer. Not about being able to afford a drive, it's about it being ridiculous that anyone should have to buy an external for a desktop.

There is no need for an optical drive. It has little sense even in multimedia studios, DVD production is going down, and Blu-ray is probably a dead-end, so who needs an optical drive he can use an external one... not a big deal, however this features are important:

There is a need for those who want them and an external is a big deal for a desktop just how ridiculous it is. Options are required. It is bad enough with a laptop and inexcusable not being an option on any desktop system. Apple could leave ONE system alone and give it every option people want, not even Pro anymore if they strip everything from it.

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

Thunderbolt + Quad Xeon Based Mac "mini" w/ PCIe+ XGrid

Would bring me back to the Mac IIfx days stacked with Radius Rockets!

 

[TyPod]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a design to reminisce the G4 Cube. That definitely would be different!

 

[MacSince1990]

New features:

-Slimmer design (You won't believe how thin we made it!)
-SSD standard (non-upgradable)
-Soldered RAM (convenient, no need to install your own)
-Thunderbolt connectivity

 

[ElderBrE]

Those who are talking about making external chain expand ability through thunderbolt... Well, in its current state, it cannot happen.

Unless Apple and Intel are going to announce a new thunderbolt iteration later this year with much faster speeds, that idea is not workable. Current thunderbolt speeds relate to about 4x PCIe 1.1, that's not very much at all. Certainly not enough to make external expand ability a reality... Yet.

Maybe when thunderbolt goes on fiber.

 

[wizard]

All this talk about Thunderbolt is total ignorance of Thunderbolt's bandwidth and the bandwidth of basic internal hardware components. If Apple is going to make a modular design (for which we've seen zero evidence, you guys have completely fabricated the idea like a game of Telephone), it'll pretty much have to be based on a new, proprietary technology nobody's seen before. Let's not forget that Apple hates cables.

I totally agree with the part about TB. People have no idea what bandwidth is nor what is required to drive a modern CPu or GPU.

Some of you commenters have no idea what pros like about the Pro.

Likewise some have no idea why we see the Pro as a joke.

Some of you Pros have no idea about computer technology and how it works.

Some of you are really living in fantasy land.

Better to be alive with dreams than to be totally out of touch with the rest of the world.

Let's all take a deep breath and come back down to Earth.

Why would Apple spend a lot of money and time totally redesigning a product line that, while profitable, isn't a major market, when the alternative is to simply make another computer in the same old box with off-the-shelf hardware at a minimum of cost?

It isn't a question of would, they have said a redesign is coming. What that will be is an open question.

Bottom line, no full speed PCI slots for multiple GPUs = not a Mac Pro.

If the GPU is in a i86 compatible socket of some sort with direct access to main memory does that make it less of a Mac Pro? You have an interesting bluster here but yet your mind is still in the past. Apple has many options available to them to dramatically change the architecture of a modern computer. Everybody in the industry has recognized that current architectures leave a lot to be desired and one common goal in the industry is to tie the GPU and CPU very close together. You can't look towards the past and say if the Mac Pro doesn't look like this it is no longer a "pro" computer. Instead you need to look at what Apple delivers with a critical eye and say is it good enough in rev one and further where are they going with this.

Obviously no one can say if it is good enough today as the machine isn't public but this idea that one can trash a new architecture before you even see it is rubbish.

 

[Carouser]

So far I've learned:

1) Pros don't care about a Mac Pro being any thinner; the size of the computer doesn't matter at all

But somehow also

2) Pros can't deal with external optical drives, it's crucial that these drives are on one side of a piece of metal rather than the other

 

[SockRolid]

... Lou Borella -- administrator of the We Want a New Macpro[ Facebook group -- wrote on the page that he heard the new professional Mac would be "heavily reliant on Thunderbolt" with "no internal expandability", and would have support for dual-GPU's and no FireWire or optical drive.

Like I've been saying. Thunderbolt might make it possible to ditch the old "box full of components" idea.
Thunderbolt is fast enough to act as a bus between CPUs, GPUs, and storage, for a modular approach.
Want a heavy-duty number cruncher? Snap together 8 CPU modules, a GPU, and 2 storage modules.
Want a video server? Snap together 24 storage modules and a CPU module.
Want an all-purpose rig? Snap together 4 CPU modules, 1 GPU, and 4 storage modules.

More flexible, more scalable. You could start with just 1 CPU module + GPU + storage module,
and add processing power, storage, and GPU power as your needs and/or budget increase.

Oh, and if you're worried that someone in your cube farm might want to snag a CPU module for their
modular Mac Pro, Apple could ship some kind of locking solution. A cage of some kind.

 

[koban4max]

about time!!

about time for what? slimmer Mac Pro and lighter?

 

[ElderBrE]

Like I've been saying. Thunderbolt might make it possible to ditch the old "box full of components" idea.
Thunderbolt is fast enough to act as a bus between CPUs, GPUs, and storage.
Want a heavy-duty number cruncher? Snap together 8 CPU modules and some storage.
Want a video server? Snap together 24 storage modules and the basic CPU module.
Want an all-purpose rig? Snap together 4 CPU modules, 1 GPU, and 4 storage modules.
Etc. etc.

Thunderbolt is not capable of delivering that in today's world. You are making up stuff without thinking if its possible to do or not, just wishing.

 

[r00fus]

What if it's any Apple Device

New Mac Pro is going to be a standalone thunderbolt device with integrated gpu's, memory etc, and is going to require another mac to function. You heard it here first guys

Now here's another mindblower - what if it only required any other Apple Device (iOS or OSX) to function - that'd be the tail wagging the dog, non?

 

[SSDGUY]

Keeping expectations reeeeally low. I'll believe it after its arrival at my home.

 

[mmcmonster]

Something really different?

How about a segmented computer with thunderbolt connectors between the computer components, allowing easy drop in upgrading of components without opening any boxes?

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

I think that the 'pro' needs to broaden it's market as well.

Perhaps we'll see a new device that will replace the Mac Pro but WITHOUT the Pro designation (and then everyone who feels they are a Pro will stop thinking that the computer is somehow exclusively theirs and that nobody else has any business wanting one). Maybe they'll resurrect the PowerMac brand name and expand it's audience to power gamers too.

Whatever happens, It'll be fun to watch it all unfold!

I seriously doubt they'll resurrect the PowerMac brand... they ditched that when they ditched PPC. I foresee them resuming the PowerMac brand when they return to PPC (which I foresee as happening after Hell freezes over.)

I can't imagine what role the new computer will take... I don't doubt it'll be exciting, but Apple tends to come up with neat things you didn't know you needed before they told you, but it suddenly seems obvious and necessary when they reveal it. Based on the description of "Really Different", I feel like this new Mac is going to be much like the original iPhone.

 

[Shivetya]

So the new Mac Pro is a Mac mini! LOL!

Will they call it the "Mac mini Pro" or "Mac Pro mini"?

probably look like one of those ultraslim oscillating fans Amazon sells.

 

[Blu Reel]

Connect the technology dots

Here are some points to consider when speculating about the new Mac Pro design.

1) Heat -
The biggest issue with a tower design for both PC and Mac - heat build up and more importantly how to dissipate it. Excessive heat is the number one reason why computer chips fail.

The primary heat generators are the CPU(s), GPU(s), hard drives and power supply.

The Mac Pro when it first came out was "revolutionary" in heat dissipation because it channeled air flow separately for some of these heat sources and thereby cut down on the number of fans normally associated with towers of that size. Take a look at all the PC case options of this size and count how many fan mounts there are.

One of the "problems" with the XServe was it was described as hearing an airplane taking off when it turned on because of the noise generated by the fans since it didn't benefit from the same airflow technology of it's Mac Pro Tower sibling.

2) Thunderbolt 1.0 - 10 Gbs per channel bandwidth. Thunderbolt 2.0 - 20 Gbs bandwidth per channel.

3) SSD - 4 Gbs read ability. Raid 2 SSDs and you saturate (read limited by) Sata's 6 Gbs bus. No single hard drive comes near to this kind of data throughput.

4) Apple's Thunderbolt display POWERS a MacBook Pro. I know the Thunderbolt spec says it supplies 10W of power. I know my old aluminum MacBook Pro 17" has an 85W power supply.

5) Apple makes a fanless desktop 27" iMac.

6) Apple recently hired AMD graphics engineers

Assumption:
Apple makes their own specs for Thunderbolt (power)

My guess:
Apple's new Mac Pro attacks the heat build up problem by taking advantage of Thunderbolt. They move the storage and power supply outside of the motherboard chassis. They literally cut the heat generation in half in the sense of putting 2 heat sources in one chassis and the other 2 heat sources in a separate chassis connected via Thunderbolt.

From an engineering point of view, this would be a logical separation, too, as the CPU speed in accessing RAM and the video cards is dramatically higher than it is for accessing storage - the whole reason why there is a cache.

If my guess is true, it would make sense that no optical drive would be part of the CPU unit. It would be part of the Thunderbolt storage unit which I envision would be some kind removable drive bay system.

While it would be cool (pun intended) to house the PCI slots (video cards) separately, I would agree with the other responses that current Thunderbolt specs are too limited for that.

My speculative question is this - How big of a monitor would Apple have to make to house a couple of Xeon processors and a couple of video cards without fans? After all, what else could those new AMD graphic engineers be working on?

But in summary, the main reason I believe for modularity is about the heat. And the technologies that I highlighted point to a possible solution - CPU, memory and PCI slots in one housing connected via Thunderbolt to a Storage Bay and power supply in another housing.

1) Divide and conquer the heat issue.
2) Provide flexible purchasing options for more custom tailored "Pro" systems.

Do you need lots of storage? or a little storage? Do you need lots of PCI slots? or just the 1 video card? Every Pro has their own work flow needs.​

One last thought -
Even if the new "CPU unit" needs to have it's own power supply, it would be significantly "smaller" than one that would power an entire existing tower. Think about Apple's external power supplies and of course lower wattage power supply sizes.

My 2 cents.

 

[doctor-don]

13 pages?!

I certainly hope this "something really different" refers to a Mac Pro chassis that is fully configurable and upgradable, with the ability to replace and upgrade each main component, instead of having to buy a whole Mac every other year.

Did you not read the with "no internal expandability" part?

It will be a cube.

Only far more powerful, relatively speaking.

BS

That doesn't seem realistic at all! If they have spent resources making "something really different" it makes no sense to kill it off after its one and only appearance.

Agree.

 

[wizard]

It'll be a modular design. No more "last century" pre-set internal expansion ports.

You'll start with a base 'CPU' unit that'll look like a Mac Mini. Expansion will be in the form of 'trays' that stack above the CPU unit via Thunderbolt 2. They'll look like flatter versions of the CPU and snap on flush to form a clean tower shape.

I could see bolt on solutions for certain types of capability. The problem is such capabilities often lead to excessive expense unless the standard is low cost and easy to implement.

Third parties will need to design expansion trays specifically for the new MacPro as cards will be incompatible, outdated hardware.

Which really makes no sense at all. Not with the entire world of PCI Express cards able to run on different platforms.

Expansion trays at launch will include a DVD drive, extra memory, and a 4K video editing card.

Remember that Thunderbolt 2 I/O is as fast as internal card I/O. So there is zero trade-off going modular over internal.

It is unbelievable how brain washed people are these days. PCI Express is considerably faster than TB. It isn't likely that TB will catch up anytime soon either. Remember even with todays announcement TB maxes out at 20Gbps - that is 20 giga bits per second, not bytes.

PCI Express in version one could do 4GB/s across sixteen lanes. That is 4 giga BYTES per second.

In terms of form factor, modular is superior because the vast majority of Towers don't reflect the user's expansion needs (either by wasting space with empty slots, or not having enough).

The biggest issue is that the Mac Pro prices those expansion capabilities way to high if you have a need for expansion at a reasonable cost. Not a pro uses require high performance, some just require a lot of I/O. I'm not convinced that eliminating all PCI-Express slots is a good idea in a Mac Pro these days. It is more of a mixed bag than many want to acknowledge.

 

[Val-kyrie]

My guess is that this won't debut until 4Q 2013 or 1Q 2014 when TB 2.0 will be released. From the description, I don't think pros will be happy. I expect a glorified Mac Mini with 2 SSDs / bays, 1 gfx slot, USB 3.0 ports, HDMI port, no FW, no ODD. All expansion will be via TB ports or a TB dock. The key will be TB 2.0 for additional gfx power.

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

For those bitching about Thunderbolt throughput, Radius Rocket cards were NuBus and they seemed to do the trick perfectly fine.

 

[jrlcopy]

No internal expansion would be the worst, already as it is we don't have enough slots in the mac pros for all of the cards we use. And currently have to pop open the case depending on what type of drives we are hooking up. Now we'd have to daisy chain external slots? ugh.

Fiber Card
USB 3 Card
Avid I/O box card
Video Card
eSata card
Red Rocket Card

 

[geiger167]

I cant see any of this happening, it will just be the old case with updated components. Nothing wrong with that, the old case is a design classic.

 

[Mackan]

Sounds like a small powerful machine with support for external GPUs and HDDs via Thunderbolt.

Probably, but likely with some proprietary solution/restriction as well. Or otherwise it could set in motion the eGPU business for laptops, which I am sure Apple doesn't want.

 

[FluJunkie]

Like I've been saying. Thunderbolt might make it possible to ditch the old "box full of components" idea.
Thunderbolt is fast enough to act as a bus between CPUs, GPUs, and storage, for a modular approach.
Want a heavy-duty number cruncher? Snap together 8 CPU modules, a GPU, and 2 storage modules.
Want a video server? Snap together 24 storage modules and a CPU module.
Want an all-purpose rig? Snap together 4 CPU modules, 1 GPU, and 4 storage modules.

More flexible, more scalable. You could start with just 1 CPU module + GPU + storage module,
and add processing power, storage, and GPU power as your needs and/or budget increase.

Oh, and if you're worried that someone in your cube farm might want to snag a CPU module for their
modular Mac Pro, Apple could ship some kind of locking solution. A cage of some kind.

There's no way Thunderbolt can handle that kind of workload, and Apple ditched XGrid, which isn't exactly a positive sign for the "Lets leash lots of small computers together as a desktop cluster" concept your suggestion entails.

It's not currently possible with Thunderbolt, Apple's shown no sign of moving in this direction. It's about as sensible to say that maybe the next Mac Pro will be fueled by unicorn blood.

 

[Nik]

New Mac Pro will not launch at WWDC.
1. The CPUs are not ready yet. Intel will launch the new series in the fall.
2. Apple seems to leak information that they are working on something great. They intentionally leak the info just days before WWDC. This is because they want to prepare us for not getting new Mac Pros at WWDC.
Maybe they'll announce it, but availability is a whole another story!