Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Lowering taxes in order to "stay competitive" is nothing more than a race to the bottom.

Companies like Apple need to pay the country that they base themselves out of, use its resources, and proudly call home no matter if the money is made overseas. Not doing so only cheats the US tax payer on top of the subsidies the already enjoy.

That would be good, but it's impossible without international agreement to not create tax havens. China and other countries undercut us.

Edit: This is assuming that companies exploit some kind of loophole involving low-tax nations to avoid taxes that would otherwise be paid to the U.S... which might NOT be true. I mean, people always assume it's true without actually knowing or understanding how it works, and I don't claim to know either. Otherwise, there's no loophole to fill, and it doesn't make sense for companies to have to be taxed twice.
 
Simple answer to TAX issues, stop companies being able to raise money like this if they have that money in liquid capital globally...

Basically apple is going to avoid paying tax on spending the money it already owns... and will probably get some form of tax relief on the massive bond sale.

the financial system is fundamentally full of loopholes like this. Governments should be turning to these companies and saying NO you cant raise money in bond sales or loans if you have the money in CASH many many times over, spend the money you have already got.
 
the financial system is fundamentally full of loopholes like this. Governments should be turning to these companies and saying NO you cant raise money in bond sales or loans if you have the money in CASH many many times over, spend the money you have already got.

I understand the frustration many people feel over this issue.

But unfortunately, the corporate taxation of multinational corporations - especially technology or financial firms - is a problem without a good solution.

Absent a global agreement on equal taxation (which is never going to happen) there will always be some jurisdictions that are going to have lower rates than others. And once this happens, it becomes open season for IP and financial companies to say exactly where they make their profit. And they are always going to say it took place in the low-tax location.

Figuring out how to fairly tax corporate profits, in such a way as to neither "punish success" nor reward waste - is a very, very tricky business.

But you likewise cannot completely exempt corporations from any tax burden. Otherwise they simply become vehicles for the wealthy to allow their fortunes to become ever larger, without (theoretically, at least) ever having to pay their share of taxes on an ever-increasing share of the national wealth.
 
So they should pay taxes in those overseas companies AND here in the U.S.? What about that seems fair? Sounds like cheating the company to me.

Hey Dimwhit -- what's fair about me, U.S. TAXPAYER, paying taxes on my wages, then whatever is left over, paying sales taxes when I spend that, paying gasoline tax when I buy gas, and paying "fees" on practically every other service I need to live?

So, when companies with $138 BILLION in cash, overseas, wants to use it in the US, the HELL YES, pay the tax!
 
We're all taxpayers, and rules are rules.

Well, I dont understand your logic. If the bill doesnt pass, Apple keeps their money in other countries and pays a total tax of ZERO. Passing the bill entices Apple to bring the money to the US and pays a tax of 14%. Seems like the taxpayer wins here.

In this case, Apple is the taxpayer. Apple has and continues to manage their finances following all the laws, rules, and guidelines. It's not their fault if the results don't meet everyone's personal preferences.

----------

The financial system is fundamentally full of loopholes like this.

Always remember that Apple did not create these loopholes. They were created by your Representatives in Washington. Apple is simply following the rules to make a return for their shareholders.
 
It's not a "doge" if it's legal.

The point is that deals like that aren't legal under EU law and it was secret specifically because it was illegal. After it came to light EU has made Ireland revoke all of those deals within a transitional period of 2 years if I recall right.

Other than that, the fact that something is technically legal doesn't keep it from being morally deplorable. If you don't like the corporate tax level of where you operate you operate you campaign to change it or you move your business elsewhere. As simple as that.

If you want to take advantage of the national infrastructure with schools (not just for your workers' kids, your workers' basic education comes from it), roads, police, an army, a legal system and everything else a developed nations provide, then you pay for your share of the cost of running it. It's called paying your taxes.
 
there are a few options. One would be lower the US corporate tax rate but change it to a territory based system. These means we tax money spent in the US so it is getting tax before it leaves the country.
Now this comes at a price. Companies can no longer declare loses from over seas, or claim taxes paid to foreign companies.

Net effect is it hurts multinationals and forces them to pay up instead of use loop holes. It helps non multinationals big time as it really lowers their tax rate.
Reality is companies like Apple and other multinational do not want this change as it means OMG they have to pay more and small companies get a big boost.
 
The point is that deals like that aren't legal under EU law and it was secret specifically because it was illegal. After it came to light EU has made Ireland revoke all of those deals within a transitional period of 2 years if I recall right.

Other than that, the fact that something is technically legal doesn't keep it from being morally deplorable. If you don't like the corporate tax level of where you operate you operate you campaign to change it or you move your business elsewhere. As simple as that.

If you want to take advantage of the national infrastructure with schools (not just for your workers' kids, your workers' basic education comes from it), roads, police, an army, a legal system and everything else a developed nations provide, then you pay for your share of the cost of running it. It's called paying your taxes.

Publicly held companies such as Apple have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders. To willingly pay more taxes than required by law would constitute a breach of that responsibility.

What's morally deplorable is how a government such as ours WASTES BILLIONS OF DOLLARS of taxpayer money, then cries that they need MORE TAXES to make up for the shortfall.

I can't believe people who think MORE TAXES are necessary. I get tired of paying for ineptitude and waste in the government. Pork barrel spending on pet projects, IRS paying BILLIONS in fraudulent tax refunds, and the list goes on and on.

Apple pays US taxes on money earned IN THE U.S. Money earned outside the U.S. is taxable at the foreign rate, whatever that rate is. Apple does pay its taxes.

"Morally deplorable"?... SMH
 
The point is that deals like that aren't legal under EU law and it was secret specifically because it was illegal. After it came to light EU has made Ireland revoke all of those deals within a transitional period of 2 years if I recall right.

Other than that, the fact that something is technically legal doesn't keep it from being morally deplorable. If you don't like the corporate tax level of where you operate you operate you campaign to change it or you move your business elsewhere. As simple as that.

If you want to take advantage of the national infrastructure with schools (not just for your workers' kids, your workers' basic education comes from it), roads, police, an army, a legal system and everything else a developed nations provide, then you pay for your share of the cost of running it. It's called paying your taxes.

You really don't have to bring morality into the picture, and it probably doesn't help to do so, if only because everyone is going to have different ideas about morality. Taxation is a public policy issue that only gets more difficult to address by bringing in concepts of right and wrong.

----------

Publicly held companies such as Apple have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders. To willingly pay more taxes than required by law would constitute a breach of that responsibility.

What's morally deplorable is how a government such as ours WASTES BILLIONS OF DOLLARS of taxpayer money, then cries that they need MORE TAXES to make up for the shortfall.

I can't believe people who think MORE TAXES are necessary. I get tired of paying for ineptitude and waste in the government. Pork barrel spending on pet projects, IRS paying BILLIONS in fraudulent tax refunds, and the list goes on and on.

Apple pays US taxes on money earned IN THE U.S. Money earned outside the U.S. is taxable at the foreign rate, whatever that rate is. Apple does pay its taxes.

"Morally deplorable"?... SMH

Point proven.
 
I understand the frustration many people feel over this issue.

But unfortunately, the corporate taxation of multinational corporations - especially technology or financial firms - is a problem without a good solution.

Absent a global agreement on equal taxation (which is never going to happen) there will always be some jurisdictions that are going to have lower rates than others. And once this happens, it becomes open season for IP and financial companies to say exactly where they make their profit. And they are always going to say it took place in the low-tax location.

Figuring out how to fairly tax corporate profits, in such a way as to neither "punish success" nor reward waste - is a very, very tricky business.

But you likewise cannot completely exempt corporations from any tax burden. Otherwise they simply become vehicles for the wealthy to allow their fortunes to become ever larger, without (theoretically, at least) ever having to pay their share of taxes on an ever-increasing share of the national wealth.

Point is however, that apple don't need to "raise money", they have the money in the bank, the ONLY reason they are doing this is because it happens to be sat in the wrong bank and moving it means they have to pay tax on it somewhere.... they should be made to move it, get that money back in circulation ...

Problem is if we keep going around like this, the rich will be sat on massive stockpiles of money, and will still be asking US plebs at the bottom for loans to do things, rather than spending the money they already have.

Consumerism seems fundamentally broken at this point
 
These "loopholes" are for things the US (and state) government has chosen to provide incentives, for various reasons. It's reasonable to argue that some of them are too generous, or no longer needed. But, it's not reasonable to argue that a corporation shouldn't take advantage of every possible one: it's their duty to shareholders.

There are also many tax credits and deductions for individuals, ranging from mortgage interest deductions, energy-efficiency credits, and incentives to save/invest. These are also "tax avoidance" methods, or "loopholes", and account for far more reduction in tax revenue than corporate tax reductions. Of course, an individual may choose to forgo them, but that's your choice. Or, you can just write a check to the Bureau of the Public Debt.
Agreed.

The problematic tax loopholes are those that have as their only reason the goal to move the location (country, state, municipality) for taxing profits. In general they can serve as an incentive for the relevant government to keep tax rates low but they can also easily turn into a race to the bottom. They are problematic among other reasons because they favour large companies and rich individuals for whom the costs of relocation the taxation jurisdiction are small in relative terms (letting the rich pay less tax in relative terms is generally not considered as 'fair'). They also favour 'small' jurisdictions as lowering taxes and paying for it by attracting a disproportionate share of the high earners gets easier the smaller your jurisdiction (the smaller your population, the easier it is get a high ratio percentage of high earners in your population).

----------

You really don't have to bring morality into the picture, and it probably doesn't help to do so, if only because everyone is going to have different ideas about morality. Taxation is a public policy issue that only gets more difficult to address by bringing in concepts of right and wrong.
Except that most political decisions are about what is considered wrong or right. In the end, all laws are means to an end. And what that end should be is almost always about what people think is right.

----------

That would be good, but it's impossible without international agreement to not create tax havens. China and other countries undercut us.

Edit: This is assuming that companies exploit some kind of loophole involving low-tax nations to avoid taxes that would otherwise be paid to the U.S... which might NOT be true.
It is certainly true in a lot of cases. Apple legal construction in Ireland resulted in profits taxable in no jurisdiction, ie, a tax rate of zero. Though part of the deal was an agreement with Ireland that resulted in a tax rate of 2% if I remember the number correctly.

This whole discussion should really not be about whether taxes on the income is paid in country A or in country B. It should be first about ensuring that taxes are paid at all or rather paid at reasonable rate (certainly not single digit).
 
I didn't comment in any way, shape or or form about whether a company or anyone else should take advantage of gimmies in the tax code. If you look at what I actually said (why oh why is saying this even necessary?), I simply pointed out a plain, simple fact: few U.S. corporations pay the corporate tax rate that so many are fond of citing as though everyone does.

Very few individuals pay the top individual tax rate, due to lower rates qualified dividends (which have already been taxed once) and capitol gains, which is a larger proportion of higher income individuals. But, it doesn't prevent them from paying a share of taxes that is proportionately much higher than any other group of taxpayers.


The rest of your reply also does not follow from anything I actually said. You might look in the dictionary under "demagoguery;" I suspect you will find a picture of yourself.

"Tax avoidance" and "loopholes" are not politically neutral terms. So, spare me your pious attitude.
 
Very few individuals pay the top individual tax rate, due to lower rates qualified dividends (which have already been taxed once) and capitol gains, which is a larger proportion of higher income individuals. But, it doesn't prevent them from paying a share of taxes that is proportionately much higher than any other group of taxpayers.

What an odd response. It doesn't prevent them from pay proportionally, it just makes a no-brainer to pay less. The tax system is now net regressive. You could look that up.

The entire concept of "double taxation" is total baloney.

"Tax avoidance" and "loopholes" are not politically neutral terms. They are paid to find them. So, spare me your pious attitude.

Yes, they are. Just ask a CPA if you don't believe me. So spare me your ideological spin.
 
What an odd response. It doesn't prevent them from pay proportionally, it just makes a no-brainer to pay less.

I was trying to point out that even though the top rate is rarely reached by individuals or corporations, it doesn't prevent them from paying higher average rates: much higher than any other segment of taxpayers.

However, it does generate a disincentive against engaging in what would be productive behavior -- because when a rate is too high (more than 50% in many states in the US, combined), there's no marginal gain. It's why lowering tax rates have resulted in an increase in revenues -- every time. And increased revenues from higher taxes have always stalled out.

The tax system is now net regressive. You could look that up.

Not according to the Congressional Budget Office. I have looked it up, and if you are interested in the facts rather than someone's spin on it, I will be happy to provide a link to it.

The entire concept of "double taxation" is total baloney.

Dividends are first taxed as corporate profits, and subsequently as distributions to individual taxpayers. That's not a difficult calculation to do. The CBO attributes corporate income taxes to shareholders of that corporation, in the analysis I mentioned above.

Yes, they are. Just ask a CPA if you don't believe me.

My accountant doesn't use those terms. She knows better. And, neither did my father, who was a CPA for most of his career. It's an ethical issue: using politically loaded terms like "loophole" or "avoidance" implies that it might be considered shady, and you don't want your client to repeat those terms to an IRS agent.

So spare me your ideological spin.

And what is "baloney", if not ideological spin?
 
Hey Dimwhit -- what's fair about me, U.S. TAXPAYER, paying taxes on my wages, then whatever is left over, paying sales taxes when I spend that, paying gasoline tax when I buy gas, and paying "fees" on practically every other service I need to live?

So, when companies with $138 BILLION in cash, overseas, wants to use it in the US, the HELL YES, pay the tax!

I don't understand how the people ever allowed the emergence of sales tax, property tax, and income tax? For the poor it's double taxation, and for the wealthy it is triple taxation. Sales tax might just be the worse, because unless you barter your services for goods, you have to spend your income at some point.

On the other hand property tax ensures you can never be 100% self sufficient. Even if you have no debt, grow your own food, and supply your own water & power/heat you still have to have a cash reserve to pay the government for your right to live.
 
So they should pay taxes in those overseas companies AND here in the U.S.? What about that seems fair? Sounds like cheating the company to me.

US citizens already have to pay US taxes on overseas income. And if corporations are people...
 
So they should pay taxes in those overseas companies AND here in the U.S.? What about that seems fair? Sounds like cheating the company to me.

That is an inaccurate depiction, but I guess someone has to toe the line. There are two fundamental flaws. One is that some of it can be of domestic origination while attributed to a foreign subsidiary. The second is that (not covering edge cases) the amount paid in that foreign country is subtracted directly from any liabilities. Considering these countries benefit directly from US diplomatic policies, I don't have much sympathy for them.
 
I can't wait until they start scrambling all of their cash to get it back home when the White House passes the Bill taxing at a 14% rate any money kept overseas. These greedy companies love it when the tax payer bails them out or when they help them with their infrastructure. But when it's their turn to pay their taxes, theyre good at hiding it.

Oh dear. I'm not sure you understand how taxes work very well.

Or laws.

----------

I don't understand how the people ever allowed the emergence of sales tax, property tax, and income tax? For the poor it's double taxation, and for the wealthy it is triple taxation. Sales tax might just be the worse, because unless you barter your services for goods, you have to spend your income at some point.

On the other hand property tax ensures you can never be 100% self sufficient. Even if you have no debt, grow your own food, and supply your own water & power/heat you still have to have a cash reserve to pay the government for your right to live.

1) All money is taxed over and over again. That's how taxes work. As money circulates through the economy, it is taxed at various places to fund public operations. Whether or not you agree with how that money is being spent is beside the point.

There's nothing more inherently wrong with taxing for both income and sales than taxing you for selling a pencil to me, and me for selling that pencil to someone else. In fact, taxing economic activity at multiple places in the circular flow diagram has distinct advantages -- it's actually spread much more evenly and helps ensure it is more difficult to escape any sort of taxation all together!

2) Yes, you must always pay property taxes. But, then again, even if you do not use any public roads, and are completely *self-sufficient* you still receive certain public benefits, e.g. access to the court system, public defense etc. etc.

So why is it such an evil that you continue to contribute towards public benefits that you continue to receive?

----------

I was trying to point out that even though the top rate is rarely reached by individuals or corporations, it doesn't prevent them from paying higher average rates: much higher than any other segment of taxpayers.

However, it does generate a disincentive against engaging in what would be productive behavior -- because when a rate is too high (more than 50% in many states in the US, combined), there's no marginal gain. It's why lowering tax rates have resulted in an increase in revenues -- every time. And increased revenues from higher taxes have always stalled out.

I certainly applaud your rational attitude here. But I'm not sure I agree with the point above. While it makes sense anecdotally, and incidents where marginal tax rates were lowered from *very* high rates (think 80-90+) there was an increase in the marginal willingness to work for those brackets, this has certainly not happened "every time" if I recall properly.

I think the data is actually inconclusive. I'll have to double check to be certain, but I recall reading in Taxing Ourselves (hands down, best resource on public finance and taxation I've seen) chapter 4 that the empirical studies don't actually show significant change.

EDIT:

Here are the passages from chapter 4 of Taxing Ourselves:

Page 124:
“What does the evidence show? The responsiveness of labor supply, both in hours worked and the labor-force participation rate, has been studied extensively. A preponderance of evidence suggests that male hours worked respond hardly at all to changes in after-tax wage rates

Note from page 123 to explain how income taxes and sales taxes affect marginal willingness to work in the same way:
“It is also true that a consumption tax such as a retail sales tax has the same kind of effects on the incentive to work as an income tax because it reduces the purchasing power that an additional hour of work provides. This must be kept in mind when we address moving from an income tax to a consumption tax.”

Page 125:
“Yet another strategy for learning how taxes affect labor supply is to study policy changes that affect the after-tax wages of one group relative to another to see how changes in hours worked matched up with changes in incentives. The tax cuts of the 1980s arguably provided such an experiment. Nada Fissa of the University of California at Berkeley examined changes in hours worked by men with education beyond college, who typically have high incomes and received large tax cuts during the 1980s. Compared to the recent historical trend and trends for workers with less education (who did not on average receive large tax cuts), she estimates that these men increased their hours of work by only 2 percent in response to the sharply reduced marginal tax rates after 1986.”

Here's the bottom line:

Page 126:
“Although, as with many economic questions, there is controversy, it is still fair to say that the consensus is that labor supply responsiveness is fairly low.”
 
Last edited:
Publicly held companies such as Apple have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders. To willingly pay more taxes than required by law would constitute a breach of that responsibility.
If Apple really was all about making the largest amount of money for it's share holders it would probably do a lot more than just try to minimize the amount of taxes it pays. Child labor is generally used because it's cheaper, so if Apple really was all about raking in the dough for share owners, they'd probably begin to move their operations to places where child labor is more easily available than in China.

xdhd350 said:
What's morally deplorable is how a government such as ours WASTES BILLIONS OF DOLLARS of taxpayer money, then cries that they need MORE TAXES to make up for the shortfall.

I can't believe people who think MORE TAXES are necessary. I get tired of paying for ineptitude and waste in the government. Pork barrel spending on pet projects, IRS paying BILLIONS in fraudulent tax refunds, and the list goes on and on.
Oh yes, there comes the usual murrican rant about how the government is mismanaged, taxes are too high etc. Not really being american I really couldn't care less about your opinion on the U.S government and it's spending as it doesn't apply to me. You americans always have this really annoying tendency to be insanely self-centered and think that the world revolves around you.

xdhd350 said:
Apple pays US taxes on money earned IN THE U.S. Money earned outside the U.S. is taxable at the foreign rate, whatever that rate is. Apple does pay its taxes.
Didn't I just point out how Apple got caught illegally avoiding taxes in the EU? Here in Finland they didn't pay anything on their profits due to having their Irish subsidiary, which didn't even pay more than 2% there. That's not just Apple avoiding taxes trough an illegal deal, that's Ireland helping itself to taxpayers' pockets in other EU countries.

Also, in case you don't understand how the EU works, one of it's main pillars is the free movement of products and services across borders, so a company based in one country can sell products in another and only have to pay taxes in the country they're operating out of. For Apple not to pay taxes in the county it does operate in is basically Apple and Ireland siphoning tax funds out of the pockets of other EU countries.
 
If Apple really was all about making the largest amount of money for it's share holders it would probably do a lot more than just try to minimize the amount of taxes it pays. Child labor is generally used because it's cheaper, so if Apple really was all about raking in the dough for share owners, they'd probably begin to move their operations to places where child labor is more easily available than in China.

No but they still have a responsibility to their shareholders, even if that's not their only responsibility.


Oh yes, there comes the usual murrican rant about how the government is mismanaged, taxes are too high etc. Not really being american I really couldn't care less about your opinion on the U.S government and it's spending as it doesn't apply to me. You americans always have this really annoying tendency to be insanely self-centered and think that the world revolves around you.

Not that I agree with his arguments, but perhaps the government really is mismanaged? Maybe you could actually address the argument instead of making sweeping claims about all "murricans".

Didn't I just point out how Apple got caught illegally avoiding taxes in the EU? Here in Finland they didn't pay anything on their profits due to having their Irish subsidiary, which didn't even pay more than 2% there. That's not just Apple avoiding taxes trough an illegal deal, that's Ireland helping itself to taxpayers' pockets in other EU countries.

Perhaps you could elaborate, as I'm unfamiliar with this particular example, and with how tax law works in the EU (and I guess multinationals in general). If I am a corporation based in the US, for example, and I sell products in the Germany, for example, I naturally need to collect and/or pay tax on products that I sell in Germany, no? In the US, this would be considered a sales tax.

However, since my corporation is not based in Germany, there is no reason for me to pay tax on the profits, correct? Just like if I am a corporation based in California, I wouldn't pay state tax on computers sold in New York. Just the sales tax.

Wouldn't then basing a corporation in Ireland be completely above-board as long as you are collecting POS taxes where your products are sold?
 
Oh yes, there comes the usual murrican rant about how the government is mismanaged, taxes are too high etc. Not really being american I really couldn't care less about your opinion on the U.S government and it's spending as it doesn't apply to me. You americans always have this really annoying tendency to be insanely self-centered and think that the world revolves around you.

Did the 2008 financial crisis not affect you or your country at all...?

----------

If Apple really was all about making the largest amount of money for it's share holders it would probably do a lot more than just try to minimize the amount of taxes it pays. Child labor is generally used because it's cheaper, so if Apple really was all about raking in the dough for share owners, they'd probably begin to move their operations to places where child labor is more easily available than in China.

From a business standpoint using child labour may not be a very good idea even if the only motive is profit. While you can pay children less than adults, they will probably be slower and less reliable, so the net gains probably wouldn't be worth the public backlash that it would cause.
 
Here's the bottom line:

Page 126:
“Although, as with many economic questions, there is controversy, it is still fair to say that the consensus is that labor supply responsiveness is fairly low.”

Thanks for this: it is better data than I've seen elsewhere. But, it had an interesting qualifier that I think may invalidate any conclusions:

Nada Fissa of the University of California at Berkeley examined changes in hours worked by men with education beyond college, who typically have high incomes and received large tax cuts during the 1980s.

Men with college educations, and especially beyond college, are largely salaried. While some earn commissions or other compensation that can be related to hours, they are a relatively small percentage of this group. On the other hand, there are non-college educated skilled tradesmen that earn enough income to be affected by these tax changes, and they earn overtime for every additional hour. That's the group that should be studied, but I don't know how easily they can be separated, and how you can adjust for other factors that occurred at the same time.

The other group that should be examined are married couples, where one or both are relatively high-earners. The marginal tax rate on the second person (plus the additional costs of child care, etc.) make it much less desirable for both husband and wife to work. The plural of anecdote is not data, but I know several couples in which the wife (or in one case, the husband of a doctor) chose to stop working and stay home, because there wasn't enough net benefit to continue working.

My wife experienced something similar when we got married: after we adjusted her (and my) withholding allowances, our net pay as a couple was significantly less than the sum of our net pay as individuals. However, she chose to keep working until she retired.
 
Thanks for this: it is better data than I've seen elsewhere. But, it had an interesting qualifier that I think may invalidate any conclusions:

Nada Fissa of the University of California at Berkeley examined changes in hours worked by men with education beyond college, who typically have high incomes and received large tax cuts during the 1980s.

Men with college educations, and especially beyond college, are largely salaried. While some earn commissions or other compensation that can be related to hours, they are a relatively small percentage of this group. On the other hand, there are non-college educated skilled tradesmen that earn enough income to be affected by these tax changes, and they earn overtime for every additional hour. That's the group that should be studied, but I don't know how easily they can be separated, and how you can adjust for other factors that occurred at the same time.

The other group that should be examined are married couples, where one or both are relatively high-earners. The marginal tax rate on the second person (plus the additional costs of child care, etc.) make it much less desirable for both husband and wife to work. The plural of anecdote is not data, but I know several couples in which the wife (or in one case, the husband of a doctor) chose to stop working and stay home, because there wasn't enough net benefit to continue working.

My wife experienced something similar when we got married: after we adjusted her (and my) withholding allowances, our net pay as a couple was significantly less than the sum of our net pay as individuals. However, she chose to keep working until she retired.


Just now seeing this -- very interesting point you raise. As you mentioned, the data certainly aren't ideal (here or in any other case).

A couple of observations --

1. The author seems to indicate that this isn't the only study that has come to this conclusion. Normally, I'd take that with a large grain of salt, given that the "other studies" aren't specifically presented. However, I trust this author's intellectual integrity quite a bit, so I'm willing to take it at face value. [There may even be some other studies in the pages of the chapters that I didn't pull out -- if you're interested in this sort of thing, the book is definitely worth checking out.]

2. Unfortunately, this is probably the best group to examine, as there haven't been changes with as large of magnitude in the lower tax bracket, making any findings more tenuous.

3. I'm not sure I'm understanding the crux of your point regarding salaried male workers. Are you saying the problem is that they are a small sample of the population, or that their compensation is not directly tied to the amount of hours that they work?
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.