Apple Plans to Appeal $439M 'Final Judgment' in FaceTime Patent Lawsuit With VirnetX

Discussion in ' News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot


    Apr 12, 2001

    VirnetX today announced that the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas has denied all of Apple's motions in a longstanding FaceTime-related patent lawsuit between the two companies.


    The court also granted all of VirnetX's motions in the retrial and increased the royalty rates that Apple owes during the infringement period, resulting in a revised final judgment amount of $439.7 million.

    "We are elated with the Court's Final Judgement of $439 million in that not only did it affirm the jury's verdict of $1.20 per infringing iPhone, iPad and Mac Product, but also added for willful infringement, interest and attorney fees. This is the third time a jury has ruled in our favor against Apple," said Kendall Larsen, VirnetX CEO.

    VirnetX originally sued Apple in 2010 over allegations that FaceTime's peer-to-peer connection technology infringed upon its patents. VirnetX won its case in 2012, and Apple was hit with a $368.2 million judgment, but the appeals and retrial process has dragged on for over seven years until now.

    Of note, the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas is a hotbed for patent infringement lawsuits given several favorable outcomes for patent holding entities like VirnetX. Some would even call the company a patent troll, although it does appear to offer at least one product of some kind.

    A spokesperson for Apple confirmed that it plans to appeal this final judgment, according to TechCrunch. It noted that the motions can still be appealed even if the original case was already appealed and lost.

    Article Link: Apple Plans to Appeal $439M 'Final Judgment' in FaceTime Patent Lawsuit With VirnetX
  2. vertsix macrumors 65816


    Aug 12, 2015
    smh just pay it the company has $200 billion in the bank
  3. gaximus macrumors 6502a

    Oct 11, 2011
    Whats the point of a "Final Judgment" if you can appeal it?
  4. imran5720 macrumors regular


    Dec 21, 2013
  5. deany, Oct 16, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017

    deany macrumors 68030


    Sep 16, 2012
    North Wales
    So iphone 8 sales were lacklustre, the 10th anniversary Event at Steve Jobs's theatre went down like a damp squib, and only 46,500 iphone Xs are ready at launch day.... they've 'lost' the FaceTime case.
  6. FX120 macrumors 65816


    May 18, 2007
    In before the ‘blah blah blah they don’t make a product so they’re evil for holding patents’ crowd shows up...
  7. WatchFromAfar Suspended


    Jan 26, 2017
    It's "a damp squib" meaning an explosive that has gotten damp so it can't go off. Still you made me laugh :)
  8. Sasparilla macrumors 65816

    Jul 6, 2012
    I remember these guys:

    Their founding owners were directly related to the U.S. national security establishment - and forced Apple to abandon encrypted phone to phone connections (no middle server)...Apple had to go to server pass through at the time. VirnetX had a patent on the direct client to client technology and wouldn't license it to Apple - not because it wasn't enough money, just wouldn't license it. Not sure where things stand now. But they weren't the only faux patent company the NSA etc. directly controlled and probably still control....
  9. deany macrumors 68030


    Sep 16, 2012
    North Wales
    thanks corrected!
  10. thisisnotmyname macrumors 68000


    Oct 22, 2014
    known but velocity indeterminate
    I'd like $100 from you. Just pay it to me, you have the money in the bank. If you'd like I can file a small claim and receive a default judgement so we can continue this analogy.
  11. 840quadra Moderator


    Staff Member

    Feb 1, 2005
    Twin Cities Minnesota
    So so all companies including Skype need to pay for this licensing? Even apple had video chat before the iPhone, with iChat AV.

    Guess I am going to have to read up a bit more regarding this case!
  12. phobos512 macrumors regular


    Mar 26, 2012
    High Desert, CA, USA
    Why don't you make like a tree, and get the heck outta here ;)
  13. MacBergin macrumors regular


    Jul 8, 2015
  14. alexgowers macrumors 65816

    Jun 3, 2012
    Patents related to basic features like video calling and peer to peer connections should be invalidated. If Apple can’t circumvent this patent with a software alternative it’s a patent that should never have been granted. I think Apple is a huge bully but thinking that prices are pushed up by a dollar from these crazy patents that are too broad is madness.

    I also think that patents should at least be used in a competeting product to be valid for that area. Developing a technology should be rewarded yes but it should be shown to have been for that specific purpose and product. Infringement should at least be shown to have been intended and not independently created. VirnetX winning is not good for consumers and competition. The patent was designed to create competition between competing tech and methods and reward development of new methodology. However it’s being used like a protection racket designed to extort as much money as possible and never seems to reward original creators and instead the company’s that holds the patent.
  15. OldSchoolMacGuy Suspended


    Jul 10, 2008
    Just because you have the money doesn't mean you should throw it away if you don't have to.

    Your comment makes it clear why you aren't and never will be rich. You don't get rich by being stupid with your money.
  16. wigby macrumors 68000

    Jun 7, 2007
    These lawsuits have nothing to do with money for Apple. By paying them without exhausting all legal possibilities first, Apple opens the floodgates to an unimaginable parade of future lawsuits.
  17. nexesnex macrumors regular

    Sep 18, 2014
    We should all file a class action lawsuit against this particular court. I'm sure if you watch the money trail, they get tons from these sneaky patent trolls.... Obviously, I realize you can't file a lawsuit against a court....
  18. teknikal90 macrumors 68040


    Jan 28, 2008
    Vancouver, BC
    man i just got reminded by how sexy old apple products were
    look at how good that phone looks
  19. MH01 Suspended


    Feb 11, 2008
    Yeah, poor people don't get to appeal final judgements. Its not about right or wrong is it.....
    --- Post Merged, Oct 16, 2017 ---
    Dman that iPhone 4 is still one damn sexy phone
  20. deany macrumors 68030


    Sep 16, 2012
    North Wales
    "Emails from Apple's engineering staff indicated that they knew they were violating various patents."
  21. 69Mustang, Oct 16, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017

    69Mustang macrumors 604


    Jan 7, 2014
    In between a rock and a hard place
    You can have a $100 from me. The thing is, you'd have to get it from my wife.:oops: If you're successful - you won't be - could you get an extra $10 for me? But don't tell her. Pleeeeeease.

    Your comment makes your condescension pretty clear:rolleyes: and Apple has settled lawsuits in the past because they weren't worth the continued litigation.

    I agree with your sentiment regarding just paying, by the way. It's your delivery of the message that's distasteful and wrong in it's premise. Just settling isn't the greatest idea. Apple does it when the benefits are greater than continuing to fight.
  22. DewDropLava macrumors newbie

    Sep 20, 2017
    IP farms are patent trolls. Owning an IDEA is stupid. You should own an implementation or product to qualify for IP.
  23. mabhatter macrumors 6502a

    Jan 3, 2009
    I think Tim needs a $1B bonus ... so he “feels better”. I mean with all that bad news how do CEOs function? Craig should get some too.. his hair is not getting the keynote attention it deserves.
  24. mariusignorello macrumors 68000

    Jun 9, 2013
    “But Apple has too much money...” is what they cry about.
  25. vvs14 macrumors regular


    Sep 16, 2012
    Only he has not stolen technology from you. So there is no question of him giving even 1 cent to you. Apple on the other hand...

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